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Bombs VS Guns
Posted - 4/16/2013 3:42:29 PM | show profile | flag this post
Something that will, no doubt, cause anger in some of you, but hey, when's that ever stopped me? A point from a friend:
"Watching the coverage of the bombs in Boston, it occurs to me how much less lethal two bombs on a crowded city street were than one semiautomatic gun in a schoolroom."
Posted - 4/16/2013 4:20:24 PM | show profile | flag this post
The thing is, VTexan
The guns were not more lethal, it was the guy who aimed them that made the difference. Planted bombs cannot be aimed with any precision so bombs are louder, scarier, and get our attention because of the randomness of their impact.
No need to get angry, that was an interesting observation.
Posted - 4/16/2013 4:33:14 PM | show profile | flag this post
The bombs were improvised...
latest word is that they were made from pressure cookers stuffed with explosives and ball-bearings. They had to be placed randomly -- where they could be unnoticed for a long enough period of time for the bomber to place them, then get away.
But an assault weapon, with large capacity clips and plenty of ammo -- that's designed by engineers and perfected through 50+ years of training and wars to be a mechanized killing tool.
A shooter can move quickly, spray densely packed targets very quickly. His escape is not so likely, but he has greater control over his killing field.
Not a anger inducing question, VTex. But it does show why mass killers in the U.S. tend to prefer guns over bombs.
And in our culture, you can buy a fully-functioning killing machine at a gun show.
A bomb, you're going to have to build yourself.
Posted - 4/16/2013 4:43:18 PM | show profile | flag this post
At least LaPierre
hasn't come out with an official statement 'The only thing that stops a madman with a bomb is another mad man with a bomb'...
(An needless to say, no one would have died at all yesterday if the terrorists just used Army designed non-wounding bullets)
Posted - 4/16/2013 7:11:41 PM | show profile | flag this post
When I saw the explosions
...I thought how much smaller they were than for instance the McVey bomb in OKC. Had that been the bomb there would have been hundreds dead. But of course, that bomb took a small moving truck filled with explosives to create that kind of explosion. One can't do that in a trash can.
One CAN wreak a lot of havoc though with a relatively small assault weapon + extended clips + big crowds.
Posted - 4/16/2013 7:18:26 PM | show profile | flag this post
does anyone remember what the anarchist's cookbook..
said about building pressure cooker bombs.. loaded with nails and ball bearings?..
i kinda suspect we're leaning toward a home-grown bomber here..one who doesn't have access to plastic explosives..like c-4 or semtex, or whatever's popular now..
Posted - 4/17/2013 8:45:12 AM | show profile | flag this post
how will democrats take advantage of this tragedy ?
will democrats call for a ban on high-capacity pressure cookers?
Posted - 4/17/2013 9:01:11 AM | show profile | flag this post
Both are weapons of terror
It is an interesting observation that 2 relatively similar sized items, an AR15 and a pressure cooker bomb (based on what we know at this point) both kill, create terror and fear, but the gun wins in the death toll.
I don't understand the celebration of gun deaths by the gun "enthusiasts". I know gun owners who support responsible gun ownership. I wonder why so many "gun zeolites" are afraid of what a background check will turn up in their own history.
Common sense is a good thing. Responsibility is a good thing. Keeping our children alive and safe is a good thing. Terrorists are bad.
Posted - 4/17/2013 9:30:47 AM | show profile | flag this post
No bans on pressure cookers, but I'm guessing some restrictions on freedom to assemble/large group events or something to do with cell phones/privacy/personal technology.
Just following the playbook. Traumatic event on U.S. soil = restriction/erosion of civil rights of U.S. citizens.
Any congressmen jumping on this yet?
Dian Feinstein was out of the gate after Sandy Hook with the second amendment issue.
Bush Jr. threw out that Patiriot Act damn quick.
Clinton (OK City bombings) fought for a year to get his anti-terrorist bill passed
Here's a link to an op-ed from the NYT that shows just how long the gov't has been itching to water down citizens' right to bear arms. 1996.
Eyes and brains awake, people. Be students of history, not media lapdogs.
Posted - 4/17/2013 11:04:45 AM | show profile | flag this post
Watching the coverage last night; it was encouraging, but not surprising, to hear from Bostonians out and about proclaiming 'We're not going to live in fear'. Echoing New Yorkers after 9/11. If you give in to your paranoia--that's no way to live. I suggest you take a lesson from THEIR 'Playbook'.
And yes, I read that NYT link you provided. Sounded like reasonable proposals to me. And certainly nothing law abiding Americans had anything to fear:
"a compromise bill being discussed would allow the Government to ban fund-raising in this country by representatives of terrorist organizations and speed the removal of foreign nationals with links to terrorist organizations" And...
"many of the provisions scrapped by the House were being restored, but others -- like a Senate-passed measure to make it easier to obtain wiretaps in terrorist cases -- were not expected to be included.
It also was not clear whether a requirement to chemically mark bomb-making material would survive, although Mr. Clinton said today that such markings would help the police trace explosives."
Where the hell did you read into that "that shows just how long the gov't has been itching to water down citizens' right to bear arms."???
Posted - 4/17/2013 12:02:47 PM | show profile | flag this post
It's highly doubtful...
ANY civil liberties will be eroded over this bombing.
The general mood of the people and politicians has been to focus on the openness of this type of event. Marathons have long been called the "most democratic" of all sports. Professionals and amateurs run together and there is no way to create a barrier between runners and spectators.
What we may see is more security, more bomb sniffing dogs, more undercover cops at these types of events. That's not an erosion of any rights -- that's getting more of the protection we as taxpayers pay for.
Posted - 4/17/2013 12:05:04 PM | show profile | flag this post
VTex made a great point...
when he said:
"When I saw the explosions...I thought how much smaller they were than for instance the McVey bomb in OKC."
In the aftermath of OKC, the government did require a lot more tracking for bomb components -- fertilizer purchases can be tracked, fertilizer has markers in it to make it easier to track the purchaser.
That's made it a lot harder to build a bomb like McVeigh did at OKC.
And none of that limited any personal freedoms.
Posted - 4/17/2013 12:18:43 PM | show profile | flag this post
Some regulation and keeping track of purchases of deadly combinations of components very likely saved lives on Monday. I hadn't thougbt of that before. Really, that's all that we decent human beings want ... to protect and save as many innocent lives as possible.
Posted - 4/17/2013 1:16:37 PM | show profile | flag this post
The Oklahoma city bomb
Filled the inside a moving truck. Hard to hide that in a back pack.
Posted - 4/17/2013 2:38:21 PM | show profile | flag this post
The bomber had to settle for a much smaller bomb -- partly because he couldn't get a box truck into the venue, partly because you can't leave those trucks randomly parked without drawing suspicion now, and largely because you can't buy enough fertilizer to build a truck bomb without getting a visit from the FBI before you can finish building the thing.
The regulations, markers and required registrations since 1995 have greatly reduced the chance of a truck bomb in the U.S. using readily available components.
Posted - 4/17/2013 5:08:44 PM | show profile | flag this post
You must have missed this part:
The Senate passed a bill, largely acceptable to the White House, but then the legislation ran into trouble in the House where some lawmakers, with the backing of the National Rifle Association, said it would give the Government vast new powers that would threaten individual civil liberties.
"While the Senate passed a solid bill, the House absolutely gutted it," Mr. Clinton said in his radio remarks. "Under pressure from the Washington gun lobby, House Republicans took that bill apart piece by piece."
Question: How many guns were used in OK City bombing?
And: Which rights will be trampled next?
(PS. If the "terrorists" wanted to kill people, why didn't they put the backpacks under the bleachers for maximum damage? Wouldn't that make more sense?)
But, keep those eyes shut. Keep feeling the fear-mongering control by the media, and remain under the gov't's "protection."
Remember what William Casey the director of the CIA (1981-1987) said: “Our disinformation program will be complete when everything the American public believes is false.”
Do you REALLY think an anti-American terrorist put a backpack bomb at marathon? Really? While a bomb drill is being run? REALLY???
Posted - 4/17/2013 5:15:21 PM | show profile | flag this post
We're also ALL aware of the lawsuit regarding PATENTING HUMAN GENES in the Supreme court this week, right? We're all following that case, right? ( regrading two human genes associated with breast and ovarian cancer, BRCA1 and BRCA2)
If you can't see the implications of this outcome ...
CISPA ... Anyone paying attention to this either?
** crickets ***
Thank GAWD the MSM keeps us informed and enlightened.
Posted - 4/17/2013 8:12:21 PM | show profile | flag this post
I had not had my daily dose of crazy today. And with two posts now I am covered for tomorrow as well.
Posted - 4/17/2013 8:20:10 PM | show profile | flag this post
beenthere; Your'e all over the place
Re: the Clinton Anti-Terrorism Bill, and the NYT piece you cited; I asked "Where the hell did you read into that "that shows just how long the gov't has been itching to water down citizens' right to bear arms."??? It just dealt with terrorism...
You respond "You must have missed this part..." and "the legislation ran into trouble in the House where some lawmakers, with the backing of the National Rifle Association..." So because the NRA had a problem with it--that's PROOF for you "gov't has been itching to water down citizens' right to bear arms."??? HUH??
Exactly which "Rights" of yours have been trampled because of OC?? And wouldn't a terrorist placing a 20lb backpack under bleachers arouse suspicion?? And there was no bobm drill going on--that rumor got started because there were bomb sniffing dogs at the start & finish, andthe police announced a planned demolition after bombing...
My point is you are one confused dude. You yell at us for not trusting unreliable sources--yet apparently believe crap the NRA and InfoWars and other paranoid bloggers tell you. Make up your mind.
(and PS, the SCOTUS Genetic case has been covered extensively...Google it. Tons of tape and print. We don't have to bring up every single story you find interesting)
Posted - 4/17/2013 8:58:34 PM | show profile | flag this post
"how will democrats take advantage of this tragedy ?"
Good call con/puzo!
Now dems will plot to take away our rights to build and own bombs. Bombs we need to bomb bombers who would bomb us.
The only way to stop a bad guy with a bomb, is a good guy with a bomb.
If more people in Boston had a bomb at the time of the bombing, they could have bombed back and prevented more bomb related deaths.
Or caused more deaths. That's also a possibility.
Posted - 4/18/2013 9:57:58 AM | show profile | flag this post
Bomb drill? Seriously?
You have 23,000 runners, 75,000 spectators and another 20,000+ pouring out of Fenway into the streets of Boston all at the same time.
Any idiot commander who scheduled a drill when every available cop and 400 National Guardsmen were handling crowd control would be fired for failing to look at his calendar!
beenthere, have you checked in with Mulder and Scully lately?
Posted - 4/18/2013 11:04:57 AM | show profile | flag this post
>>> (and PS, the SCOTUS Genetic case has been covered extensively...Google it. Tons of tape and print. We don't have to bring up every single story you find interesting) <<<
Yep. It was all over CBS Radio the other morning and evening on my two-hour commute.
Posted - 4/18/2013 1:15:29 PM | show profile | flag this post
there has been tons of MSM coverage on both those stories.
In fact, the SCOTUS case was inescapable this week -- front page above the fold in the Washington Post, heavy coverage on CNN, NPR.
Posted - 4/18/2013 11:26:05 PM | show profile | flag this post
Don't bother him/her
...Still checking on those original sources like the NRA and Infowars.
and GEE! So the 'Ricin Terrorist' turned out to be an asshole Southern White Guy?!!? Aw Frack! Not another MuslimMexican?? Damn.
And the FBI pictures of the Boston suspects aren't brown skinned moustache turban wearers?? Crap.
Let's keep howling about CNN screwing up (which they did) but someone, somehow, erase all of our "It has to be a Radical Islam Thing" before they arrest a couple of idiots from Middle America.
Posted - 4/18/2013 11:33:30 PM | show profile | flag this post
y'know, it's too bad beenthere doesn't work in journalism..
he obviously has NO idea how editorial decisions are made, or how stories are covered..
if he did, maybe he would make sense with his posts..
of course, if he did, he wouldn't be posting in the first place..