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| etaoin shrdlu |
Posted - 6/29/2012 4:44:53 PM | show profile | flag this post
Cruzo...
I never use biased sites to back up my arguments.
I do not rely on talking points to make a point -- I use facts that can be easily sourced by anyone.
That's the core issue of credibility, young Mr. Poole. You'll have to learn that if you ever want to write for something beyond examiner.com.
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| etaoin shrdlu |
Posted - 6/29/2012 5:08:44 PM | show profile | flag this post
So much for speculation, cruzo...
My first prediction has come true. DoJ is moving to ignore the criminal contempt complaint:
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2012/06/29/after-holder-contempt-vote-republicans-eye-civil-court-case-to-extract-furious/
Damn them facts and their liberal bias!
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| cruiser |
Posted - 6/29/2012 5:14:17 PM | show profile | flag this post
Is Holder once again trying to mislead congress?
Darrell Issa, chairman of the House Committee on Oversight and Government Reform, has made public details of a letter concerning a secret wiretap application that "included transcripts from a wiretap intercept from a previous Drug Enforcement Administration investigation that demonstrated the suspects were part of a gun-smuggling ring."
The letter said, in part, "the wiretap applications contained a startling amount of detail about the operation, which would have tipped off anyone who read them closely about what tactics were being used."
The Roll Call article (link below) said Holder and (Maryland Democrat Rep. Elijah) Cummings (the recipient of the letter) have both maintained that the wiretap applications did not contain such details."
http://www.rollcall.com/news/darrell_issa_puts_details_of_secret_wiretap_applications_in_congressional-215828-1.htm
AG Holder, his deputy, Lanny Breuer and whomever else is stonewalling the Oversight Committee need to come clean and turn over the documents they are hiding. While they claim to have turned over everthing pertaining to the operation of F&F, it is after-the-fact documents and certain others, such as this letter, that call into question the truthfulness of Holder and his staff.
And the president might have implicated himself by asserting executive privilege over these documents.
It is only complete and absolute transparency that will restore public confidence in the Justice Department, its leaders, and the Obama administration.
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| cruiser |
Posted - 6/29/2012 5:19:42 PM | show profile | flag this post
"moving to ignore the criminal contempt complaint"
Not surprising. Once they started down the road to untruthfulness they had little choice but to continue and hope they wouldn't be found out.
But the criminal contempt is a non-issue. It would have to be enforced by DoJ...and you can guess how far that would go. The important issue is the civil contempt resolution. That will go to a court which will decide whether or not Justice has to turn over the documents.
Much more of this issue WILL become public and it might prove to be massively embarrassing to Holder...and possibly Obama himself.
It certainly will severely damage the self-styled image of the Obama administration as the "most transparent in history."
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| Grateful Deadline |
Posted - 6/29/2012 5:47:25 PM | show profile | flag this post
**I've read the Democrat talking points...
what you've characterized as "backgrounders"...**
That's not what I meant by backgrounders.
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| Grateful Deadline |
Posted - 6/29/2012 5:48:17 PM | show profile | flag this post
Cruiser, why are you so opposed to thinking?
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| cruiser |
Posted - 6/29/2012 6:32:00 PM | show profile | flag this post
Au contraire, dearie
I think, therefore I contemplate the facts. I don't just blindly accept the talking points like you left wingers do.
If you don't believe Holder is covering his own ass you are beyond redemption. And Obama might be covering his own too.
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| it's just tv folks |
Posted - 6/29/2012 6:45:25 PM | show profile | flag this post
oh orthicon
I was just responding in the manner stopbs-- is posting. She wants to call the President of the United States "liar in chief", I'll call her whatever I want. She is whining because the "black man won't giver her a pony". She is constantly saying nasty things about people of color and blaming them for her failures.
Maybe I shouldn't have posted right after reading the ridiculous retarded posts of stopbs-- my mistake.
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| mpdodgson |
Posted - 6/29/2012 7:22:54 PM | show profile | flag this post
cruzo; it hasn't occurred to you
We're just laughing about you at this point?? It's nothing but blah blah blah I hate Obama blah blah.
"Is Holder once again trying to mislead congress?" Oh, I don't know, enlighten me. You give details of a letter, that, in detail, involves Issa's investigation into a letter that details other details.
"AG Holder, his deputy, Lanny Breuer and whomever else is stonewalling the Oversight Committee need to come clean and turn over the documents they are hiding." OPINION. "And the president might have implicated himself by asserting executive privilege over these documents." OPINION.
This DOJ, like other DOJ's, DOES NOT have to hand over docs relating to current criminal/undercover investigations, or docs pertaining to how the WH views or handles Congressinoal investigations. That, as we have covered, was also the basis of the Bush Admin Exec Privelege.
"Much more of this issue WILL become public and it might prove to be massively embarrassing to Holder...and possibly Obama himself." Gee. Thanks for the total lack of proof of anything there.
One more thing; "It certainly will severely damage the self-styled image of the Obama administration as the "most transparent in history". The Obama Admin has used Exec Priv once. Bush used it SIX times. Why doesn't that tarnish the Bushies more in your book?
Only in your dreams. The vast majority of the publicthinks
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| stopbs-- |
Posted - 6/29/2012 7:32:07 PM | show profile | flag this post
Hold on there, mp
Issa never said that "the White House isn't involved." He said that he doesn't HAVE EVIDENCE that the WH knowingly misled Congress. You know that's a huge difference. How could Issa know whether Holder et al. misled Congress when he doesn't have all of the paperwork? That's why he want it! His committee has already shown that Holder lied (or was gravely mistaken?) regarding when he learned about Fast & Furious.
God. Just hand over the documents and be done with it. Let Agent Terry's family know everything about their son's death.
I read the Fortune Mag article which Etaoin recommended. It's disturbing in that it suggests a level of sloppiness and pettiness within the ATF that could have allowed a lot more people to die. It suggests a culture of cover-ups. The question is, how high do they go?
As for actual revelations in the article, for all of her investigative work and thousands of documents she claims to have obtained, the investigative reporter still relies on a great deal of he/said, she/said at the end of the day. The article raises more questions for me than it answers. Hand over the documents.
Look, we will now likely learn a great deal more about Fast & Furious once the matter goes to civil court anyway. You can say that Congress should do more regarding jobs. (I think they are waiting for a change in leadership.) We can debate logic in waiting. However, I fully expect elected officials to handle more than issue in any case! Now, it's a moot point and it did nothing to help the Obama Administration.
You likely remember, as I do, when Nixon withheld documents. How did that work out? That involved one party spying on another. This involves the death of a federal agent. We need transparency in our government.
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| Grateful Deadline |
Posted - 6/29/2012 8:59:49 PM | show profile | flag this post
**cruzo; it hasn't occurred to you
We're just laughing about you at this point?? It's nothing but blah blah blah I hate Obama blah blah.**
MP, you have not arrived until he looks into his crystal balls and tells you what you think and what you do, and calls you "dearie"!
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| cruiser |
Posted - 6/29/2012 9:00:51 PM | show profile | flag this post
"You know that's a huge difference"
He knows but couldn't care less. Distortion, deception and exaggeration are his stock in trade.
I've NEVER found him to quote anything accurately. He may occasionally get all the words in the correct order but the context is butchered beyond recognition.
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| stopbs-- |
Posted - 6/29/2012 9:37:25 PM | show profile | flag this post
cruiser,
I don't want to get into making all of this personal. There are issues here which inflame all of us in one way or another. I come here to think and write and I personally do it best when I stick to the issues, not the personality. That's just me. I have allowed myself to get dragged into mudslinging on occasion but, really, what's the point?
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| cruiser |
Posted - 6/29/2012 10:15:06 PM | show profile | flag this post
The point
is just exactly as I described it. If dogson wants civil, HONEST debate, I'll be happy to oblige. But as long as he cannot EVER quote anything accurately I'll continue to point that out.
I know you're not particularly a fan of mine but that's on you...not me.
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| Grateful Deadline |
Posted - 6/29/2012 11:37:01 PM | show profile | flag this post
Translation:
Honest = Agrees With Me, and if you disagree, then you are flawed and I will attack your problem with insults to make it go away, so that you might be as perfect as I am.
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| stopbs-- |
Posted - 6/30/2012 12:44:07 AM | show profile | flag this post
Lol..
cruiser..
I have nothing against you or anyone here.
(One poster seems somewhat unbalanced. I think he's secretly my biggest fan.)
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June 4, 2013 | San Francisco
