Health Insurance Part 2

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beenthere Posted - 10/22/2013 11:09:00 AM | show profile | flag this post

I learned that a friend's employer-sponsored health insurance premiums have increased.

How much, you ask?

$400 a month. An INCREASE of $400 a month for family coverage. How does a middle class family come up with an extra $400 a month?

The Un-ACA is going to destroy the middle class and the economy, as disposable income in 2014 will be GONE.

P.S. I had a rather spirited discussion of the ACA with this friend many months ago. She was gung-ho in favor of ACA because she did NOT understand anything other than "ACA is great for everyone!!! Everyone can get cheap healthcare!!" Wild guess how she feels now.

etaoin shrdlu Posted - 10/22/2013 1:34:41 PM | show profile | flag this post

Is this part of the ACA...

beenthere, or is it simply the employer passing on more of the costs to their workers?

That's been going on with employer provided policies for two decades.

My out of pocket costs more than doubled back in 2007 when my boss passed on one-third of the costs to employees.

Most Americans really don't know how much their health insurance costs them -- since the employer is picking up most of the cost in most cases.

The ACA does offer private sector competition for health insurance -- so your friend may be better off shopping for a new plan on the exchanges.

beenthere Posted - 10/22/2013 2:48:54 PM | show profile | flag this post

ACA requires everyone to be covered for all insurance services. So every health insurance plan, whether it's directly from the insurer, through an exchange or through an employer is more costly. Period.

It is a direct result of ACA requirements.

beenthere Posted - 10/22/2013 3:04:52 PM | show profile | flag this post

ES, if you are really interested in learning about the ACA and its effect on the U.S., talk to a medical biller with at least 10 years experience.

I am not saying that to be snarky or that say you don't know about ACA, but I think once that dialogue is opened, you will probably learn a lot that you had not already known. I was pretty shocked actually, when I started asking real questions.

Yes, everyone will have "insurance" but no one will actually be able to afford "healthcare." And that is just one little part of it. The way it effects doctors' practices is a sin. My doctor left his practice last year, and it did not surprise me. He was wonderful and saw the writing on the wall. He got out.

And of course not one piece of preventive care is covered. A "well visit" and "lab tests" aren't care. They are diagnostic. Functional MDs are not covered because they are not recognized by insurers.

And I won't even go into the issues of privacy regarding the exchanges. You can't even SEE the plans unless you give up all private info to Experian, who is "vetting" the applicants.

IF this was supposed to be a "transparent" exercise to get people covered, it would have been very easy to set up a site similar to travelocity/orbitz/hotwire etc., and run the different plans there so consumers could see EXACTLY what was being offered. But no, you have to give up SS, drivers license, preexisting conditions to even view the plans offered.

Why? I can view any other service offered by the gov't without disclosing any info. Why is this site different? Just choose from drop down menus/click on boxes, etc., to see what plans are available for you. So why are they collecting information upfront? It makes no sense.

The ramifications of the ACA are horrible for the U.S., and it will send the country into a deep, deep depression. We should ALL be concerned.

Sigh. It just makes me so sad. That intelligent people refuse to investigate and learn, really LEARN what ACA will really do.

And I want to thank you for the civil discourse, it has been a pleasure.

cruiser Posted - 10/22/2013 3:31:12 PM | show profile | flag this post

"or is it simply the employer passing on

more of the costs to their workers?"

Some partisans will blindly and unquestioningly follow wherever the agenda leads.

"There is none so blind as he who will not see." - often attributed to Matthew Henry, 1662 - 1714, repeated in song by Ray Stevens, 1980

it's just tv folks Posted - 10/22/2013 4:54:39 PM | show profile | flag this post

beenthere, a different perspective

When I first started working in the real world, my employee benefits included a decent health care plan. Over the years and as I changed employers, my coverage has decreased and my payments, including out of pocket, have increased. This is ALL pre-ACA, pre 2008 election. I was laid off by a big time republitard "news" organization. Kudos to all of you who own their stock and profited from my loss. My union has an option ttatehat uses my freelance earnings to help pay for another health care option. It's ok if you're working full time freelance. It really sucks if you aren't getting the hours. I had to drop coverage completely. Obamacare is hope that I can afford coverage. My state is presently a red republitard state with no state exchanges. My present financial circumstances mean we only have the ACA as a health care option. My red state not taking the medicaid expansion likely costs my family more money. My moving my tax dollars to a state that respects me and my family is a likely option in the near future.

Beenthere, please try to remember those who have different lives from your own sheltered life. I respect your point of view, but I don't think you respect the lives of those who have experienced different circumcstances from yours.

beenthere Posted - 10/22/2013 5:50:50 PM | show profile | flag this post

Beenthere, please try to remember those who have different lives from your own sheltered life. I respect your point of view, but I don't think you respect the lives of those who have experienced different circumcstances from yours.

You have no idea what my experiences with employment/healthcare/health insurance have been. No knowledge there, so don't assume you understand anything about my background except what I have posted.

And don't throw insults by telling me I am "sheltered." Whatever that means. Look up some info, talk to a medical biller, they have been taking workshops and seminars and classes to get a grasp of what will happen in Jan 2014 when the SHTF. See how many medical billers think ACA is a "good idea."

The fact is that the ACA is a tremendous mess. Quite frankly, your post PROVES it has had a horrific effect on the access to health INSURANCE (again, not healthcare, which will remain even more unaffordable after the tremendous premiums).

What should have happened is that a law should have been passed denying insurance companies the right to deny coverage to anyone who has applied. Let the insurance companies THEN battle it out for consumers business. THAT would have been free marketplace in effect. Transparency.

Moving is not going to solve anyone's problems.

PS. All those people thinking they have a subsidy will be in sticker shock once tax day rolls around and they owe the IRS money. So many things wrong with that I don/t even know where to begin. But that's neither here nor there, right?

PPS. If you need work, get trained to become a medical biller. You'd have a job before you finished your training.

cruster Posted - 10/22/2013 7:29:54 PM | show profile | flag this post

Let me tell you 'bout Ahab The Arab

Sheik of the burning sand. Also by Ray Stevens.

Think he'd like Obamacare?

mpdodgson Posted - 10/22/2013 9:41:04 PM | show profile | flag this post

Health Insurance Part ad nauseum.

Back on topic here, if you please; and the whole topic was

A) "I learned that a friend's employer-sponsored health insurance premiums have increased." Well I for one, am stunned. You can't argue with a source like that. Here's a real source for you; Forbes (among others i might add)

When Bush was president premiums had already gone up 30% since 2000. For the feeble minded; that was before ObamaCare. By the time Bush left office premiums were up about 110%. For the feeble minded; that was before ObamaCare.

Look. At. The. Graph. Which leads me to

B) "It is a direct result of ACA requirements" Yep. Because as we all know...those Obamacare requirements kicked in during the first couple of years of the Bush Administration.

Point being (at the risk of stating the obvious) the insurance companies have been raising rates for years--not even knowing who the hell Obama was 1 years ago, never mind a future ACA. So the rest of it is just pure bullshit. On the flip side (despite the Fox News horror stories) we now have people who had NO insurance at all a chance to get it instead of relying on the emergency room for their health care.

beenthere? "The Un-ACA is going to destroy the middle class and the economy, as disposable income in 2014 will be GONE." Oh crap. Grow some will ya? Go all the way with Bachman and Beck and the rest of them and just declare the whole country has just been destroyed, the USA just died, it's the absolute end of America, blah blah blah. They were saying the same crap about Social Security and Medicare; and Gosh darn it, the country is still here.

etaoin shrdlu Posted - 10/23/2013 9:06:19 AM | show profile | flag this post

The ACA is an attempt....

to stop the runaway inflation in health insurance costs that we've seen over the last 20 years.

The Hannity thread on here links to an article that showed all three families profiled on FOX could have cut their insurance costs by thousands of dollars a year by shopping on the exchanges for the same coverage.

beenthere Posted - 10/23/2013 11:01:47 AM | show profile | flag this post

MP, that graph ENDS at 2012.

It does not include 2013 or 2014. Get back to me in 2014, when those rates are included. You'll be shocked. Have you talked to friends? Family? So no one you know who has insurance has been affected? All those rates have stayed the same or have had reasonable increases? Please let me know which insurers they have and what states they live in. I'd LOVE to know.

And Hannity in no way proves anything, one way or the other. If Rachel Maddow did a segment on three families and it was proven false, would you be condemning her? It doesn't matter. Stop looking to the MSM TO GIVE YOU INFORMATION. As proved, the MSM does not fact check.

Here's a question: What are the numbers on how many previous uninsured people have applied, been accepted and will have health insurance starting Jan 1, 2014? That's what this law is about right?

We don't know.

HHS doesn't know.

Right. Trumpets, fanfare, SC ruling, Congress battles ... and we the people get a website built by a four-year-old, vetted by a credit score company and is so bad it registers children as spouses and the calculators don't work. If you can even log on, that is.

And neither of you have ANY criticisms of it. None. It's all rainbows and unicorns. Works perfectly. Is helping people.

Use your functioning brains.

And MP? If someone has to pay more for premiums it stands to reason that disposable income DECREASES. It's fifth grade math. It's basic household budgeting. It will hurt the economy.

If you can't understand that basic reasoning, continuing this discussion with you is pointless.

PS. Knock off the Bush vs Obama crap. It's old. It has no place here. This is a discussion SOLELY about ACA. Not about Bush. Not about Obama. About ACA. Focus.

cruiser Posted - 10/23/2013 11:05:07 AM | show profile | flag this post

"those Obamacare requirements"

Everybody KNOWS every man NEEDS pregnancy insurance...and every 30-something NEEDS insurnace to cover senile dementia.

Even the major health insurers see Obamacare as a gigantic boondoggle. They're refusing to join the risk pools.

What switch did Obama throw to make you left winger lose your good senses???

etaoin shrdlu Posted - 10/23/2013 11:06:03 AM | show profile | flag this post

Actually, beenthere...

we DO know in the case of debunking the Hannity claims.

A reporter -- NOT with the MSM -- but with an online outfit -- factchecked the claims of the three families, then shopped for health insurance for them on the exchanges and SHOWED they could get cheaper health insurance -- by thousands of dollars a year.

So, my question for you is -- have YOU or YOUR friends tried shopping around?

I know I've pointed some of my friends to cheaper health care. They were surprised. You may be, too.

Quinntessential Posted - 10/23/2013 11:10:04 AM | show profile | flag this post

The ACA was supposed to lower everyone's premiums.

The ACA was supposed to lower healthcare cost in general and pay for itself.

I'll be paying $445 more a year for less coverage thanks to the ACA.

( I didn't get to keep my coverage. I liked my doctor, i was forced to find another one.)

I hope in a few years when the ACA is on the verge of collapse, Republicans let it die.

beenthere Posted - 10/23/2013 11:55:58 AM | show profile | flag this post


<<So, my question for you is -- have YOU or YOUR friends tried shopping around? >>

Yes, I have. I understand insurance, I've gone without, been on employer plans, bought on the free market when my employer's plan was too expensive, and paid for COBRA. I've paid 100% costs for office visits on arrival. GET. IT. Okay? Clear enough?

I've talked to my HR, I've talked to my health insurance agent multiple times, talked to a doctor's office to see if concierge care at a monthly fee would be considered "health insurance" (it's not). When I am posting, it is BECAUSE i have investigated that I know how bad this really is.

The ACA is written so tight that the only way to avoid being fine is to buy insurance from a big carrier.

What is available are severely high deductible plans, with no coverage until the deductible is met. Your friends understand that, right? That they will be forking over between $5,000 to $12,000 in annual premiums to an insurance company and then paying at least $6,000 to $12,000 out-of-pocket expenses for medical costs.

This adds to a minimum of about $17,000 a year. OUT OF POCKET. And then and ONLY then, insurance will kick in. This applies to those ineligible for the subsidy.

That is not reasonable. You know what you are paying for? So your bills come from the insurance company instead of the doctor's office. That's it.

Also, according to my insurance agent, the *good* doctors are not on the exchange plans (which are HMOs). They only take the insurance polices they want, and they do NOT want the exchanges because the payout are so low. If you're on an exchange your pool of doctors will be very limited.

AGAIN: Start looking into WHAT the ACA is, how it affects consumers and how it is NOT a "healthcare" plan. It is a handout to the insurance companies. Period. Which sit back and collect premiums for mailing out invoices.

Because premiums and deductibles are so high, it wouldn't surprise me if we see FEWER healthcare services used next year. Little history here: Co-pays were initiated, not as a way to "share costs" but as a way to discourage consumers from accessing healthcare. It is more effective than sharing the cost across premiums, because people don't even go in the first place when they physically have to pay in person. When people have to start paying 100% for every script, visit, lab test, screening you think these will actually happen?

Again, the middle class is screwed.

beenthere Posted - 10/23/2013 12:47:20 PM | show profile | flag this post

ES, I apologize if I am offending you with my last post, it is not my intention.

I just wish people would scratch beyond the surface discussion of ACA and examine the practical and financial ramifications of the legislation, as it takes us all through 2014.

And no one is really doing that in the MSM, just little bits and pieces here and there (alt media, of course has lots of fact-based info). It's like people are being brainwashed. ACA is great! ACA is great!

Sigh. And what about the story in FL that credit checks will be used to determine rates (kinda makes sense as Experian is involved)? First story lots of details; follow-up, she retracts her statement. This was local news of course. Check it out. True/false? Sketchy indeed.

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