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How many bank robberies have been prevented...
Posted - 12/21/2012 4:59:53 PM | show profile | flag this post
... By armed guards?
I love NRA logic.
Lets put more guns I'm school. That way when the next killer hit s/he'll be sure to buy even more powerful weapons, bigger clips, ... Just in case.
The next school shooting can be just like the northridge bank robbery.
Full-on assault weapon gun battles in the hallways.
Maybe the NRA can start a program to give very child body armour.
Posted - 12/21/2012 6:03:52 PM | show profile | flag this post
Look, when you outlaw bank robberies...
only outlaws will rob banks.
Using NRA logic, we should just get rid of all our laws against bank robbing!
Posted - 12/21/2012 6:53:29 PM | show profile | flag this post
Your average 'bank guard'
has a sidearm. That's it.
If you're serious about robbing said bank, you can purchase either an assault rifle, or a friggin machine gun if you'd like. With 'Cop Killer" bullets, wearing full body armor.
"James Holmes, the alleged perpetrator of Friday’s movie-theater massacre in Aurora, Col., was well-armed. He had an assault rifle with a 100-round magazine. He had a 12-gauge shotgun and two semiautomatic pistols. He had gas canisters to confuse the moviegoers"
"But that wasn’t the scariest thing about him...Holmes’ outfit blew these jokers away. He wore a ballistic helmet, a ballistic vest, ballistic leggings, a throat protector, a groin protector, and tactical gloves. He was so well equipped that if anyone in that theater had tried what the National Rifle Association recommends—drawing a firearm to stop the carnage—that person would have been dead meat. Holmes didn’t just kill a dozen people. He killed the NRA’s answer to gun violence. (Slate)
All this stuff is perfectly legal. (Just go to the U.S. Justice Department’s body armor standards page, where you’ll find a list of 69 companies that sell government-certified bullet-stopping gear.) Every single time someone even proposes a gun ban (including machine guns or assault riles), a bullet ban, a ban on the gear, hell even a law that says you have to report your weapons were stolen--The NRA goes into full battle mode.
That poor bank guard doesn't stand a chance. But c'mon, the only reason bank robbers rob banks with heavy weapons is because of video games. We all know that.
Posted - 12/26/2012 8:40:36 AM | show profile | flag this post
how many crimes have been prevented by taking away the rights of law abiding gun owners?
liberals want to smear blood of the dead on themselves and push their agenda.
Posted - 12/26/2012 12:45:10 PM | show profile | flag this post
If nobody replies to you, con, it's because it's impossible to decipher the illogic of the statement you posted solely to incite an argument, not a discussion.
It's still the happy holiday season, con. Try to live with it.
Posted - 12/26/2012 3:32:17 PM | show profile | flag this post
About a million at least
I would say that over the last hundred years or more there have been at least a million times that someone thought about robbing a bank and decided against it for fear of being shot by a bank guard. Think I'm wrong? Prove it.
Posted - 12/26/2012 4:11:20 PM | show profile | flag this post
And yet bank robberies
Have increased despite looser gun and concealed carry laws over the past decade.
And, in fact, the bulk of wounded and victims weren't criminals or guards, but employees and customers.
Just more myth and make believe from the right .
Guns don't stop crime.
Though there is a proven, criminological, exception
take the gun from the criminal.
Banks don't get robbed by knifepoint. Cars don't get jacked.
Elementary children don't get slaughtered.
Posted - 12/26/2012 4:20:37 PM | show profile | flag this post
You asked a simple question, one that really cannot be answered. Then you go off in another direction. Thanks for playing, be sure and pick up some lovely parting gifts.
Posted - 12/26/2012 5:01:34 PM | show profile | flag this post
cars don't get jacked by knife point?
happens when the left is blinded by their hate and loses any logic or reasoning they may have had........
Posted - 12/27/2012 10:04:02 AM | show profile | flag this post
look at the stats.
The FBI has the answers.
And if guards and guns are meant to be a deterrent, it hasn't worked .. since bank robberies are up.
it is not rhetorical. it is proven fact.
Thats what is supposed to drive solutions in politics .. what works. not empty ideology and wishful thinking.
But that's Con logic.
Cons think the solution to a "Knife-jacking" is to buy assault rifles, and get into street gunfights. locking the car door and rolling up the window .. is just CRAZY.. ILLOGICAL!.
Posted - 12/27/2012 11:28:21 AM | show profile | flag this post
What you don't know..
Is how many bank robberies would occur if there were no armed guards. And there is no real way to answer that question, unless you want all banks to no longer use armed guards and then wait a year to see the results. My guess is the banks would refuse, which makes zero sense. After all look how much money they could save since according to your logic armed bank guards are not a deterrent. Unless of course armed bank guards are a deterrent in which case the banks would laugh you off the premises for suggesting otherwise.
Posted - 12/27/2012 12:08:08 PM | show profile | flag this post
if only some one spent the money for research...
... like say, banks, that have an interest in reducing robberies. And police that want to catch criminals.
Why would anyone want to figure what works and what doesn't? and, gosh .. a corporations actually wanting to know what is cost effective?
ya see, not all banks have guards. and some branches have before and after stats when they do hire guards, etc.
And the studies show that armed guards are not a effective deterrent, and in fact may increase the risk of violence / injury during a robbery.
In fact there are all sorts of other security/ preventative measures like teller barriers, limiting cash on hand, etc that are more effective than armed guards.
Here in Canada many banks hire "greeters" ... rates of bank robberies in those branches were reduced significantly, much more than armed guards; because the face-time reduced would-be-robber anonymity . (most criminals care more about not getting caught, than some rent-a-cop)
None of this is a secret.
Cops hold conventions on these issues (http://www.popcenter.org/problems/robbery_banks/4/#endref91)
Ignorance of the facts is no excuse for stupid, dangerous, gun myths and lies.
Posted - 12/27/2012 12:14:03 PM | show profile | flag this post
Sorry; it's an "Unknown"
I'm with blackedtape on this one.
It's ridiculous for the NRA to even begin to know "how many crimes have been prevented" because of [any type] of guns out there. There's one wingnut here who constantly maintains 'its a proven' that concealed permits stop 'X amounts of crimes'...No, Sorry, there's no way to know that number.
There's no way to 'count' crimes that haven't been committed. Conversely, there's no way to know how many crimes committed by an "assault weapon", or "semi"--that would have been committed ANYWAY with another kind of weapon.
The only numbers we can reliably use are the ones 'after the fact' unfortunately. "Minority Report" is still fiction.
Posted - 12/27/2012 12:35:04 PM | show profile | flag this post
so let me see if i get this-
banks shouldn't have guards because they are not a not a effective deterrent.
banks should have "greeters" instead.
locking the car door and rolling up the window prevents carjackings.
Joyce Lee Malcolm: Two Cautionary Tales of Gun Control
After a school massacre, the U.K. banned handguns in 1998. A decade later, handgun crime had doubled.
The results have not been what proponents of the act wanted. Within a decade of the handgun ban and the confiscation of handguns from registered owners, crime with handguns had doubled according to British government crime reports. Gun crime, not a serious problem in the past, now is. Armed street gangs have some British police carrying guns for the first time.
also, after obamaland and washington dc, etc. passed strict gun laws, gun crimes went up. in fact there has been years when more americans have been killed by guns in obamaland than in iraq and afghanistan.
since strict gun laws don't prevent crime or act as a deterrent, using twisted liberal logic, we shouldn't have strict guns laws. right?
Posted - 12/27/2012 1:01:52 PM | show profile | flag this post
Glad someone got the point. You can't prove how many bank robberies are prevented by armed bank guards, period. You can show other methods may be effective, but even then you cannot prove how many bank robberies are prevented. You can guess based on the numbers committed, but you must factor in other considerations.
Posted - 12/27/2012 2:04:08 PM | show profile | flag this post
Blacked is right
...and Con, as usual, is fabulously stupid. This is why arguing with many conservatives is a futile thing. One can say "some men are real jerks to women" and people like Con report that you'd said "All men are jerks to women" and further, that "liberals think that women should be given a cash payout because of how badly men treat them."
I'm left to conclude that you're acutely aware of how poorly you make your case that you feel the need to fabricate a side that doesn't exist, and argue against that side. The problem is, you're so bad at that...that it's laughable.
Posted - 12/27/2012 2:30:49 PM | show profile | flag this post
con? Shut up.
For the sake of conservatives everywhere, shut up.
Sane people, of any political persuasion, can agree that sometimes our Canadian friend can go over the top. That's no reason for you to try and 'out-crazy' the guy.
Bringing up the UK was just plain dumb. The op-ed you cited had to go back 30 some years to pick out isolated examples of shootings. So what. These guys are rank amateurs compared to us. England's gun homicide rate per 100,000 is 0.08, compared to the US's 2.97. When wingnuts this past month started blaming video games for our 'culture of violence', it was pointed out that Japanese play more video games than we do, and their gun homicide rate is a shocking 0.01 Found this list on the ultra-right ukGuardian of all places:
The list of countries 'better than us' is embarassing to say the least. And knock it off with this "obamaland and washington dc, etc. passed strict gun laws" garbage. What and where exactly is "Obamaland" anyway? Wingnut code code for something?? Just Chicago, or, the whole US?? Yes, DC has gun crimes. You realize of course that the whole town is only like 68 square milies, and there's no border checkpoints like the Gaza Strip, right?? Criminals walk across the border. Just like NYC. You wanna hear how the NYC cops trace their illegal guns back to where they came from. Stupid.
"in fact there has been years when more americans have been killed by guns in obamaland than in iraq and afghanistan."
WTF? That's a fact?? Where'd you get that one?? There have been hundreds of thousands of gun deaths in [whatever you call] Obamaland?? Go ahead. Show me that one.
Again, you're an embarassment to the conservative cause, the conservative way of thinking, the GOP in general, and a boom for tin foil hat wearers. Keep it up. Please. The Dems will keep the WH for generations.
Posted - 12/27/2012 4:34:03 PM | show profile | flag this post
cruster/cdnreprtr is a great representation of liberal thinkeration. c/c lets us learn what liberals really think.
which is what upsets vtexan the most.
bring up the uk, obamaland,dc, and other places that liberals have promised security in exchange for its citizenry giving up their rights- haven't made any place safer. just less free.
who gives a flip about what countries are better than us?
libs have such a inferiority complex.
latest troop deaths in afghanistan that i have seen show 2000 deaths. since the beginning of the afghan war, more than 5,000 americans have been murdered in chicago. a city with the strictest gun laws in the country.
least rahm will keep chicagoans safe from chick-fil-la.
Posted - 12/27/2012 5:05:54 PM | show profile | flag this post
Willfully, blissfully stupid
...does upset me a bit. Which means, of course, you.
This country has been great, but it's the idiots who have somehow found theiir way too close to the driver's seat which bother me. Popular culture is Snookie and the Situation, popular politicians are Michelle Bachman and in Texas, Rick Perry and Louis Gohmert.
Here on these boards, con pretty well rules to the stupid roost. All hail King Stupid.
Posted - 12/27/2012 7:42:10 PM | show profile | flag this post
While I do like "King Stupid",
it galls me that I even give this guy airtime. If anything, it's his fellow conservatives or wingnuts who should tell him to shut up.
"cruster/cdnreprtr is a great representation of liberal thinkeration"
Okay puzo--get this through your pointed little head: 'thinkeration' isn't a word. 'cruster' does satire, and 'cdnreprtr' does NOT represent liberal thinking anymore than you are the poster child for Conservatism. God. At least I hope not.
"bring up the uk, obamaland,dc, and other places that liberals have promised security in exchange for its citizenry giving up their rights- haven't made any place safer." YOU brought up the UK, and they DO have less gun violence than we do. So does practically every other industrialized country. Read the list.
And where is "Obamaland"?? You haven't answered that. And I already told you that DC is practically a large neighborhood where anyone can walk across the border, so what was your point?? That 'piecemeal/patchwork' laws don't work? Duh??
"libs have such a inferiority complex" FoxNews bullshit. Most of the whining I heard this year about how the country was going to 'hell in a handbasket' came from the Repubs--not from the Dems. Granted--90% was just politics, you HAVE to say things ARE AWFUL if you're trying to un-seat the inccumbent. But it's just NOT TRUE. The USA is doing just fine, thank you very much.
"latest troop deaths in afghanistan that i have seen show 2000 deaths. since the beginning of the afghan war, more than 5,000 americans have been murdered in chicago. a city with the strictest gun laws in the country." SERIOUSLY?!?!? Your're comparing Chicago with the Afghan War???? And I thought you said BOTH Iraq and Afghan?!?!?
Posted - 12/27/2012 8:13:42 PM | show profile | flag this post
"so what was your point??
That 'piecemeal/patchwork' laws don't work?"
"Duh" is correct...and it's directed at you. There are in the neighborhood of 30,000 firearms laws in the US...and a MORE "piecemeal/patchwork" approach would be extremely difficult to find. And they demonstrably don't work as promised. Not only that but most of those laws have a large political component...that is, if they're not ENTIRELY political. And the laws typically passed by liberals don't solve anyting because they refuse to confront the real problem...and that is PEOPLE, not guns.
And con's comparison is apt. When two and a half times more people are murdered in an American city than in a country-wide (even regional) war with a committed and zealous enemy, something is terribly wrong. And that "something" is NOT firearms.
Posted - 12/27/2012 8:15:45 PM | show profile | flag this post
You're a disgusting human being con.
Comparing gun deaths in any city in the country to the TWO WARS. That's below slime.
"latest troop deaths in afghanistan that i have seen show 2000 deaths." REALLY NOW??!? I see 3245 combat deaths and 12309 US wounded. Iraq was 4486 and 22516 AMERICAN killed and wounded. We're not even going near the 100 to 150 civilian injuries---But, in your feeble warped mind, in the desperate attempt to attack 'gun laws'--you somehow manage to compare that to CHICAGO.
Okay, I admit, since I lost a loved one in Iraq, I'm a bit 'testy' about the subject. But how somone tries to compare American gun laws to, oh, I don't know, A FRIGGIN WAR?!?!? That's your defense on how 'gun laws' don't work??
Holy crap on a cracker.
Guess we shouldn't impose anymore 'No More Gassing the Jews' laws in Idaho, this year 'cause they sure didn't work in Germany.
Posted - 12/27/2012 10:54:32 PM | show profile | flag this post
As is usually the case
dogson doesn't have a cogent response to the issue of 2000 WAR deaths in Afghanistan vs. 5000 MURDERS in Chicago in the same period of time. Therefore he tries to muddy the waters with non-pertinent factoids and attempts to drag the discussion off on a tangent...all because he will not admit...even to himself...that the backed the wrong horse in this race.
Posted - 12/27/2012 11:35:44 PM | show profile | flag this post
I don't have a cogent reponse??
This is insane. You two are honestly trying to compare The Iraq War, and the Afganistan War to CHICAGO?? And that's why more gun laws don't work??? (Head shake)
"2000 WAR deaths in Afghanistan" (What happened to Iraq? They were just hazings??) "5000 MURDERS in Chicago in the same period of time"---So it's been worse than Chicago...So gun laws don't solve anything...See? It's so clear???
Why do you keep quoting made up numbers?? There have been over a hundred and fifty thousand killed and wounded in those wars, from a variety of weapons, mostly bullets. IT WAS A WAR ZONE. That has nothing to do with any city in America that I know of. A WAR shows that gun laws don't work?!?!? WTF people.
'cruise Lapierre' is still trotting out that bullshit decades old 'There's 20,000, no make that 30,000 'Gun Laws' on the books'----Oh let it go. That was always bullshit. The NRA counts every single law from every single municipality and you end up in the thousands. The fact that they repeat each other from jurisdiction to jurisdiction? Well, yea, but the number sounds good. It's like saying we have over 100,000 speed limit "laws on the books", maybe more, but does that stop people from speeding? NO? AHH HAH!!
Tell me how many Federal Gun laws do we have that encompass all 50 states. How many. A couple? A few? Aren't the rest all state or local??
But I try to "muddy the waters with non-pertinent factoids" You can't be serious. After comparing Chicago to Iran and Afghanistan--I'm the one who tried "drag the discussion off on a tangent" ??
You two would have been better off if you just kept quiet.
Posted - 12/28/2012 10:09:32 AM | show profile | flag this post
the (not so) funny thing ...
Afghanistan and Iraq have fewer guns per capita than America.
Yep. Americans are more armed than countries actively at war.
More than Congo. More than Colombia.
And Americans wonder why there are so many gun deaths. 10.2 per/100k people.
And they think democratic, rights-based, rule of law abiding "liberal and socialists" nations like Canada, UK, Austrailia, Germany, France, etc ... are the CRAZY ones.
They cant figure out why America has double the firearms deaths than Canada (4.7/100k). 10x that of Australia (1.03/100k). 40x the UK (.25/100k)
conservative logic is that gun laws don't work in the UK because gun crime (which in the Uk includes fake guns) has gone up 40% .. from 2600 to 5800 ... which is still fewer gun crimes than in a medium US city.
The fact is, mp, I am pretty much representative of liberals.
Just not in America;
US liberals are pretty much conservatives, and your conservatives would be a fringe group in every other civilized democratic nation.
Thats not Anti-americanism. Its political reality.
It says a lot when the President of Afghanistan makes a statement of condolence and shock over Newtown .. because even afghanis cant imagine that kind of violence.
talk about exceptional.