|Back to Home > Bulletin Board > Current Events > Topic: Immigration Reform|
Posted - 1/29/2013 11:44:08 AM | show profile | flag this post
So first it was going to be Congress dealing with the Budget/Debt, and only that. Then, well, maybe guns too. Then well, maybe immigration too. Who says these guys can't walk and chew gum at the same time?
I have to admit--the sight of both Repubs and Dems standing at the podium all backing the same idea (two of them speaking in Spanish no less), That was really something. Chuck Todd summed it up perfectly--"Big deals happen when 'political self-interests align' ..."
McCain was even more blunt. "Elections. Elections," "The Republican Party is losing the support of our Hispanic citizens." There's the understatement of the year.
The Senate plan is more conservative than the WH one (we hear from the president this afternoon) but it's still amazing to watch--The GOP is willing to give Obama another legislative victory/'legacy achievement' because if they don't they will pay the price at the polls. Oh yea--by the way--Immigration reform is the right thing to do anyway.
"Washington (CNN) -- Millions of undocumented immigrants would get immediate but provisional status to live and work in America under a compromise plan proposed Monday by a bipartisan group of eight senators.
While temporarily removing legal uncertainty for the nation's 11 million undocumented immigrants, the senators' outline also called for strengthening border controls, improved monitoring of visitors and cracking down on hiring undocumented workers.
Only after those steps occurred could the undocumented immigrants already in the country begin the process of getting permanent residence -- green cards -- as a step toward citizenship, the senators told a news conference.
"They would no longer be deported, provided they don't have a criminal record. They would no longer be harassed, they would be allowed to stay here and work,"
Besides the harpies on Fox, I just don't see how people can have a problem with this. But I'm interested in what you think.
Posted - 1/29/2013 12:05:55 PM | show profile | flag this post
Personally, I like it
All things I support. Good move by the Senate, hope the House will follow.
Posted - 1/29/2013 12:48:33 PM | show profile | flag this post
It's great to see the two parties working together, but I hope the GOP doesn't think this might be all it needs to do to earn Latinos' votes. The party's challenges run much deeper than this.
In addition, part of the proposal -- a path to citizenship -- isn't supported by the current process of obtaining citizenship. The wait times run to 20 years and more.
Posted - 1/29/2013 1:42:31 PM | show profile | flag this post
"Obama to embrace Senate deal:
When President Obama delivers his immigration speech at 2:55 pm ET today in Las Vegas, he will hug the principles that the bipartisan group of senators outlined yesterday. “POTUS will applaud the bipartisan Senate agreement that is very consistent with his long-held view and lay out his vision for immigration reform,” top White House aide Dan Pfeiffer just tweeted.
Obama also will call on the Senate to act on the legislation soon.
Had the bipartisan senators NOT acted yesterday, you likely would have seen Obama offer his own plan. But the senators did act, and their plan is the plan. The last thing the White House wants to do is blow up this fragile coalition." (NBC)
So if Obama is willing to give up his more liberal plans in order to get ANY sort of deal?? Good for him. If the Bi-Partisan Senators are willing to compromise?? Good for them. At this point it's the Teabaggers in the House that scare me--and if once again--Boehner can't them to agree; it's just another sign of his total failure leadership. IMO.
Posted - 1/29/2013 1:51:37 PM | show profile | flag this post
This is one of those
distasteful propositions that might...repeat, MIGHT...help solve an otherwise insoluable problem. But concomitant with it is the issue of securing the border...and I don't see much fervor among left wingers to deal with that part of the problem.
Senator Rubio said the path to a green card may be measured in years rather than months and citizenship may be far beyond that with several hoops through which to jump.
This is as it should be since illegals cut in front of a lot of people who are trying to emigrate legally.
Posted - 1/29/2013 1:58:52 PM | show profile | flag this post
The very paucity of my egregiousness
Posted - 1/29/2013 2:35:32 PM | show profile | flag this post
A step is a step;
Allow me my 'pie in the sky optimistic hope for can we all at least agree on one thing' moment here....
But I don't see this as an "distasteful proposition"...it's a way to give the millions of people who WORK HERE the chance to avoid prosecution. I do not buy into the idea that it is a "insoluable problem". That's just being defeatist.
"But concomitant with it is the issue of securing the border..." Oooooh. Can see you're using the toilet paper word of the day again. Fine. Securing "the border" is a farce. A canard. A joke. Die-hard gun toting farm owning Republicans hire illegals all the time. They know it, we know it. Hiring illegals is the norm--not the exceptional. "Securing the border" has always been bullshit and we all know it.
What the bi-partisan Senators proposed is not only logical, it's realistic. It's a small step, but it's a step. The WH is willing to go along with at least---something.
If you can't wecome some sort of reform for these incredibly hard working people, I feel sorry for you. This is as it should be.
" since illegals cut in front of a lot of people who are trying to emigrate legally." WHERE THE HELL did you come up with that?!?!?
Posted - 1/29/2013 4:22:01 PM | show profile | flag this post
Willfully vacuous or
dumb as a box of rocks.
Posted - 1/29/2013 6:28:27 PM | show profile | flag this post
Yea, insults work better
than actual logic. "Willfully vacuous or dumb as a box of rocks." WTF does that mean? Referring to what??? Both the WH and Congress are finally seeing compomise here on a vital issue here and all you can come up with is insulting me??
We've got millions upon millions of people trying to get across the border to WORK. We've got millions here already working (even paying taxes). They're not crawling under fences to get a DQ Freeze.
And the best you have is insulting me?? It's fantastic to watch both the Congress and the WH agree to find a solution to a problem. If you're so much of an Obaman Hater you can't see that, well then fu.
Posted - 1/29/2013 6:29:16 PM | show profile | flag this post
"WHERE THE HELL did you come up with that?!?!?"
Since you ARE dumb as a box of rocks, I'll explain:
If the INS has to drop everything to deal with 8 million newly-legalized immigrants (who came here as ILLEGALS), they will be displacing an equal number that have been playing by the rules...waiting in line...some for many months or years.
The INS is DAMN sure not going to increase its payroll to deal with the influx so those who have been patiently waiting will be pushed back even farther.
Does that seem fair to you? If it does, I marvel at your capacity for self-delusion.
Posted - 1/29/2013 7:45:28 PM | show profile | flag this post
Listen to Marco Rubio...and democrats who agree with him
Listen to Marco Rubio's outline of a policy that, initially, the senate has found to be a common ground...so far. It's reasonable and keeps those who have done things legally in front of the line, plus it calls for a secure border BEFORE anything else happens. Of course dems and repubs have differing ideas of what constitutes a secure border. Democrats think "secure" means "open".
Once Chairman Obama, who doesn't function with the country in mind as much as much as he functions with politics in mind, will do what he thinks will bring his social-democrat party the most hispanic votes in the future.
Posted - 1/29/2013 7:48:21 PM | show profile | flag this post
That is absolutely positively insane
Sucking in that purple gas you guys call 'air' on Planet Wingnutia again...
"If the INS has to drop everything to deal with 8 million newly-legalized immigrants" WHO SAID THAT??? ('Whoa there Sven--Juan here has priority, he gets to jump in line, 'cause Michelle Bachmann and cruise says ILLEGALS get to go to the front of the line') Where do you get this stuff??
"The INS is DAMN sure not going to increase its payroll to deal with the influx" Well, maybe they should. Why is that so complicated for you??
We've got about 11 million un-documented workers. They PAY TAXES now. If we 'document them' they pay EVEN MORE taxes.
Oh oh oh...can't do that...they might vote Democrat. Can't have that. But maybe, just maybe, if you you treat them right, as Americans paying taxes, the GOP wouldn;t be seen as such a villian. Now...cue Marco Rubio's speech...
Posted - 1/29/2013 8:02:33 PM | show profile | flag this post
I've had the same position on this on this for a long time:
First, giving "amnesty" to people who broke our laws and snuck into our country would be terribly unfair to all the people who did it legally and are trying to do it legally.
Second, I am not comfortable with a "path to citizenship" for lawbreakers either. Our country should not grant citizenship to people simply because they are close enough to our country to get by the boarder patrol.
The solution, as I've stated many times, is to crack down on employers who hire illegals and strengthen our boarder. Let people, who are here illegally and can't find work, go home. Let them tell everyone else that, unless they do it correctly, they will not get a job in America.
To me, this isn't about votes and it never will be. It's about fairness.
No liberal (or conservative now) has ever given me a good reason why one group of people, who broke U.S. law, should be allowed to stay here and pursue citizenship while others wait in line. How is this fair?
Posted - 1/29/2013 10:16:25 PM | show profile | flag this post
First, personally I don't think those who came here legally should be pushed to the back of the line. Whatever system is put in place should give preference to those who came here legally, IMHO.
Second, giving a path to citizenship for the rest just makes sense. These are people who came here hoping for a better life and since we failed to create a simple process the opportunities for them to come here legally were few and far between. Truth be told, way too many people have been profiting off illegal immigrants. Let's make these people tax paying workers, we all will benefit from that.
Posted - 1/29/2013 10:33:43 PM | show profile | flag this post
I have to agree with some of your thoughts, blacked.
Too many people do profit off of illegal immigration and the rates illegals will work, keep wages depressed. I will add that illegals are also a drain on our benefits (ER rooms, education.)
The problem is that EVERYONE "comes here for a better life" and the process isn't easy for ANYONE. However, we are suggesting that those who managed to game the system should be allowed to stay, in fact, be rewarded. They get to stay in our country and work in our country and enjoy our country while the people who started the legal process years ago, are still sitting overseas. They also want a better life! Their crime is in trying to get here legally.
There's just no justice in this.
Posted - 1/29/2013 10:41:34 PM | show profile | flag this post
Gord Lord stopbs;
If you read "AMNESTY" into anything either the President said--OR what the biltaeral Congressional proposals came up with--I'd love to read about it.
"Second, I am not comfortable with a "path to citizenship" for lawbreakers either" Why the hell not?? You don't believe in parole either?? A path is a path. If they'e been on that "path" for years and have become doctors lawyers scientists teachers or even scum-sucking free-lancers who troll on political bulletin boards (Never seen YOUR Birth Certificate either?!?!?!) if they've done everything they were supposed to do--why can't they stay too??
"Our country should not grant citizenship to people simply because they are close enough to our country to get by the boarder [sic] patrol." You honestly didn't see a tad of racism there?? WHY THE HELL do you think they're here??? And work their collective ases off?? The climate???? Being near a Taco Bell??? Rich Texans and millionaire Alabama farmers don't hire Vikings for a good reason. There's a shortage.
STOP LISTENING to whatever wingnut reports you're listening to. "unless they do it correctly, they will not get a job in America." Yea. Do it the old fashioned way. Kill an Indian and take his job.
"No liberal (or conservative now) has ever given me a good reason why one group of people, who broke U.S. law, should be allowed to stay here and pursue citizenship while others wait in line. How is this fair?"
Because "that wait in line" as you put it, was nothing more than being able to stand erect and tell the Customs Officer at Ellis Island what country you were from. Hell. That's how my relatives got here.
"pursue citizenship while others wait in line. How is this fair?" Last time I checked--EVERYONE--Mexican or Bulgarian--had to take the test (which, I might add, most people here would fail) and swear the oath.
Posted - 1/29/2013 11:08:02 PM | show profile | flag this post
dogson is ignoring the time required and the hoops to be jumped through for people to emigrate here LEGALLY...while the "undocumented" (read: illegal) get to bypass a big part of that.
IT DOESN'T MATTER HOW LONG THEY'VE BEEN HERE AND HOW MUCH THEY'VE DONE. The FACT is the are here illegally...and we (the US) should NOT reward their very first act of breaking US law.
Posted - 1/30/2013 1:23:12 AM | show profile | flag this post
Is anybody here interested in what's on the table in Washington?
FROM THE WASHINGTON POST:
"· Earned Citizenship: It is just not practical to deport 11 million undocumented immigrants living within our borders. The President’s proposal provides undocumented immigrants a legal way to earn citizenship that will encourage them to come out of the shadows so they can pay their taxes and play by the same rules as everyone else. Immigrants living here illegally must be held responsible for their actions by passing national security and criminal background checks, paying taxes and a penalty, going to the back of the line, and learning English before they can earn their citizenship. There will be no uncertainty about their ability to become U.S. citizens if they meet these eligibility criteria. The proposal will also stop punishing innocent young people brought to the country through no fault of their own by their parents and give them a chance to earn their citizenship more quickly if they serve in the military or pursue higher education."
FROM ABC UNIVISION:
"The new Senate plan presents an earned pathway to what it calls 'probationary' legal status. The plan requires all undocumented immigrants to register with the government, undergo a background check, pay back taxes and pass tests in English and civics, among other requirements. Immigrants with probationary legal status would not be eligible for public benefits.
"Under the plan, all criminal immigrants would be deported. That raises questions about which crimes will be deemed serious enough to trigger deportation. As it stands, even legal immigrants can be subject to deportation proceedings for crimes like marijuana possession.
"The proposed pathway to a green card could also be lengthy. The plan says that undocumented immigrants should 'go to the back of the line' for green cards, but the wait for a visa can be decades under the current system. In addition, the blueprint calls for all immigration enforcement measures to be fully in place before any immigrant on probationary status can earn a green card. How extensive those measures will be – and how long they will take to put in place – isn't clear, and spending on immigration enforcement already outflanks the combined budgets of all major federal criminal enforcement agencies."
Posted - 1/30/2013 1:26:11 AM | show profile | flag this post
All y'all who are a-skeerd of the brown menace moving to the front of the line should be happy to read that it's not part of either plan!
Posted - 1/30/2013 10:35:10 AM | show profile | flag this post
I understand your opinion from a purely philosophical stand point but let's get practical. Current estimates place the number of illegal immigrants at between 7 and 20 million so the idea of somehow locating, arresting, and then deporting them is totally impractical if not impossible. It would take every resource we have including the totality of the military to accomplish this and the drain on our economy would be enormous. On the other hand, providing a method for these people to become legal TAX PAYING members of our society would provide a revenue stream that could over shadow any revenue gained from any kind of increased tax on citizens. These people are already reaping benefits from living here; let's make them pay for it like the rest of us.
Posted - 1/30/2013 10:47:05 AM | show profile | flag this post
The reason we have "illegal" immigration...
is because "legal" immigration into the U.S. is a mess. And it's an incredibly expensive process for people wanting to come to the U.S.
Just check out the flow chart in the middle of this article:
It can take 28 years to become a citizen under the current process.
Posted - 1/30/2013 11:49:20 AM | show profile | flag this post
*** It can take 28 years to become a citizen under the current process. ***
And meantime they contend with all the noodle-heads who don't understand that a green card *is* legal permission to be here.
Posted - 1/31/2013 12:52:18 AM | show profile | flag this post
If you start losing an argument...throw out the race card
Interesting (and disgusting) how some of you throw out "racism" when you don't agree with a reasonable (and possibly better) argument that happens to be counter to yours. Others use the term "brown menace...", sarcastically, to berate those who cite the border as an entry point. Citing the obvious is apparently racist. Can't win an argument, toss out the race card.
Posted - 1/31/2013 8:26:18 AM | show profile | flag this post
Some of us just call it...
as we see it.
To deny that racism does not play a part in opposition to immigration reform is simply naive.
Posted - 1/31/2013 2:01:49 PM | show profile | flag this post
We absolutely confirm: Racism does NOT play a part in conservative opposition to Obama's immigration "reform."
The fact that Obama ignores closing the border is a factor but racism is not. We have no objection to others of ANY race, ethnicity, nationality, color, creed, religion, etc., emigrating to the US...SO LONG AS IT IS DONE LEGALLY and so long as the immigrants are not terrorists and/or subversives.
We have the right...no, the absolute responsibility...to place those conditions (among others) on immigrants.