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Notice anything missing?
Posted - 12/2/2013 2:28:23 PM | show profile | flag this post
"Since the end of the government shutdown fight, House Republicans have taken zero repeal, defund, or delay votes. "
Before the shutdown, there'd been 40 something votes to repeal or defund it. Since then, the Republicans haven't even tried.
There's a good reason. As pointed out in the article, now that hundreds of thousands are signed up -- through Obamacare, the state exchanges or Medicare expansion -- the GOP has backed themselves into a corner: If they vote to repeal Obamacare, it's a vote to strip all those people of health insurance -- and access to health care.
Republicans are now in a position that they have to come up with an alternative and put it in place -- instead of simply trying to repeal it.
Posted - 12/2/2013 3:43:58 PM | show profile | flag this post
I thought that should have been
the GOP's strategy all along. It does little good to repeal something if there is nothing with which to replace it.
The "good" aspects of Obamacare, as I see it, are coverage for pre-existing conditions and no-cancellation policies. These things could have been put into a bill along with mandating nationwide insurance sales (no mini monopolies) to take away the onerous parts of the existing system and Obamacare would have failed under its own weight.
But some GOP members were (are?) in the pockets of large insurers who wouldn't go along with anything that would have caused them to rejigger their acuarial tables...and potentially impact their profits.
This is the biggest heartburn I have with the so-called "establishment" Republicans and the reason the public at large is NOT served by mega-donations from well-heeled individuals, corporations and unions. To once again borrow from the misquote of Charles Wilson, "What's good for GM is NOT necessarily good for the country."
Government by special interests...whether they be on the right or on the left...is onerous and undesirable. It is emphatically NOT government of the people, by the people and for the people.
Posted - 12/2/2013 3:59:46 PM | show profile | flag this post
the biggest problem for the Republicans is that Obamacare IS the Republican alternative to a single payer system.
It is largely the Heritage Foundation's plan cooked up to counter "Hillarycare" back in the 90s.
That said, with Obamacare the law of the land and the GOP politically unable to repeal it -- why is the Republican Party failing to try to help fix it, to get more Americans enrolled and to make it work.
We're looking at a plan that has already slowed health care inflation and promises to slash hundreds of billions off the deficit in coming years.
Posted - 12/2/2013 4:05:58 PM | show profile | flag this post
t's a vote to strip all those people of health insurance -- and access to health care.
You don't need insurance to get healthcare.
You can be a grown up and go to an urgent care center/doctor's office and PAY FOR IT YOURSELF. I've never seen a person who was attempting to pay for a visit thrown out of a medical office.
We're looking at a plan that has already slowed health care inflation
Let's see what ACTUAL COSTS show at the end of 2014.
Just like we saw that the ACA drove premiums UP. And the ACA will cost people more out of pocket now then before the ACA due to the high premiums and high deductibles.
Posted - 12/2/2013 6:53:43 PM | show profile | flag this post
"the biggest problem for the Republicans..."
This was absolutely non-responsive to what I posted. It was just another in the endless repetitions of the left wing fringe talking points on here.
When you want to discuss this topic rationally, honestly and resposively, let me know.
Posted - 12/2/2013 8:24:19 PM | show profile | flag this post
as soioin as you stop regurgitating the rightwingnut..
talking points, we might..
I know it's easy for you to post all that crap..it's all appeared before on the right wing websites..
no original thought required on your part..
Posted - 12/2/2013 9:38:06 PM | show profile | flag this post
Excellent idea, beenthere.
Let 'em cough up $325,000 for open-heart surgery or suffer the consequences!
Posted - 12/3/2013 8:35:34 AM | show profile | flag this post
No, you don't have to have insurance to pay for health care.
But I don't know many people who can shell out $12,000 a day for a hospital stay or $500,000 for some medical procedures.
That's why insurance is a smart idea.
And no need to wait until 2014, the numbers since 2010 already show that health care inflation has slowed roughly 50% thanks to the ACA.
And I don't know where you get the idea that premiums are going up -- mine actually dropped by about 15% for next year -- largely due to getting more control over health care inflation.
Posted - 12/3/2013 10:35:54 AM | show profile | flag this post
GD, as usual you miss the point. If everyone had to pay out of pocket, do you think the cost would remain so HIGH? It couldn't. It would have to drop, bringing prices down for everyone.
ES, use google, It's your friend. There are a ton of articles showing that premiums have INCREASED. I can't continue to do your homework for you when you are so adamant about not investigating simple facts. I've posted links before, and there are even more now.
Premiums are UP. Deductibles are UP. People will be paying more in 2014 than they did in 2013. Its math, adding up numbers.
Again, do some basic research.
Posted - 12/3/2013 10:40:32 AM | show profile | flag this post
etwinkie doesn't need no stinkin' research
when he's got the Center for American Progress left wing fringe talking points.
Posted - 12/3/2013 11:39:25 AM | show profile | flag this post
beenthere, as usual, you dish out insults before thinking through the blame you place on the health consumer for decisions made by big businesses.
The ill person is to blame for high health-care costs? Really? This line of reasoning is akin to your blaming the government for the insurance decision that, in fact, your employer made.
Someday you may have the misfortune of needing major medical care. How likely do you think it will be that you will believe you screwed up your own health and that, by getting sick, you drove up the price of gauze, cotton compresses and tape to 10 times the price charged by the corner store?
I take it that you've never handled hospital bills after, say, the death of a parent. The prices on them are shocking. Perhaps you would blame the dead parent for the prices of supplies charged by hospitals, the costs of up-to-date diagnostics that get passed on to patients, physicians' costs of liability insurance that get passed on to patients and the existence of a litigious society, but all of those *business* decisions had to do with spiraling profits for companies and shareholders, not with the patient.
It's hard to tell why you posted the excerpt yesterday by TV celebrity doc Sanjay Gupta. When I read the piece at CNN.com, it made me laugh. Of course, it's a no-brainer that it's up to the consumer to take responsibility for his/her own health -- which is a major tenant of health care nowadays. And, of course, eating more vegetables isn't going to save anyone from a genetic or environmental predisposition to illness.
Blame is too easy. If we had less blame and more thought, the world would be a better place. Please think about it.
Posted - 12/3/2013 1:08:51 PM | show profile | flag this post
I have googled it. You are talking about anecdotes -- not actual facts.
And in many of the cases you point to, journalists have fact checked the claims and found those who complained of higher premiums were actually eligible for LOWER premiums.
Did you forget the thread on here where the four people Hannity had on were shown they could now get better coverage more cheaply?
As I've pointed out -- health care insurance has dropped dramatically in the past few years -- and that is allowing insurance companies to get a grip on rising costs and pass savings on to consumers.
Posted - 12/3/2013 3:02:43 PM | show profile | flag this post
You're Right, Absolutely no FACTS ON THIS AT ALL
I suggest you start here.
49-State Analysis: Obamacare To Increase Individual-Market Premiums By Average Of 41%
Today’s release, with the THIRD iteration of the map, contains both PREMIUM and SUBSIDY DATA FOR EVERY STATE EXCEPT HAWAII. (Believe it or not, we’ve had success mining data from every exchange website but Hawaii’s.) This nearly-complete analysis finds that the average state will face underlying premium INCREASES of 41 PERCENT.
Men will face the steepest increases: 77, 37, and 47 percent for 27-year-olds, 40-year-olds, and 64-year-olds, respectively.
Women will also face increases, but to a lesser degree: 18%, 28%, and 37% for 27-, 40-, and 64-year-olds.
Ignorance is a CHOICE.
Took me all of 2 secs to find this.
Posted - 12/3/2013 3:15:05 PM | show profile | flag this post
And it varies from state to state, beenthere...
"The Manhattan Institute has released an online map showing insurance premiums before and after Obamacare based on age and sex. The law's impact varies widely state to state. In Oregon, for example, rates for 40-year-old men have increased 24%. In Ohio, they have dropped 22%."
But the Kaiser Family Foundation estimates 51% of people will pay LESS. You're NOT FACTORING IN THE SUBSIDIES that most people relying on Obamacare will qualify for.
Of course, you fell for your HR Department blaming Obamacare for your company's rates going up. However, employer-based insurance was not affected by Obamacare.
But the certainty in the market, as I continue to point out, is stabilizing the health care inflation rate that was causing massive increases in health insurance costs already.
It was causing the cost of health care to double every four years. The current rate means costs won't double for 50 years.
You're likely not to see the massive increases we've all been seeing for two decades in the future.
Posted - 12/3/2013 4:11:05 PM | show profile | flag this post
ES, you are stuck on my HR dept., not me. I haven't brought it up, yet you have brought it up at least twice.
I gave you FACTS based on premiums and subsidies from independent sources, not my HR dept. If you ignore facts, well that's your choice. A fact is a fact, even if you dismiss it.
And I still have yet to understand how paying for premiums and high deductible out of pocket costs is CHEAPER. It's math. When you add more numbers together, they get higher.
BTW, ever done any checking into all those patients who were struggling with medical bills, and facing/going bankrupt from medical bills?
61% of them HAD INSURANCE. But, but they had insurance, insurance PAYS FOR EVERYTHING!!! Right?
And those "lifetime caps"? Well, they are only good if you STICK WITH THE SAME INSURER. I've changed insurers 4x in the last 10 years. How about you?
More facts, but hey, who needs a fact when you can just pet a unicorn?
Fairy tales are fun.
Posted - 12/3/2013 4:17:26 PM | show profile | flag this post
P.S. I assume since costs are already starting to go down (according to you), that in 2014, the entire medical industry will show a decrease in profits, including insurers, right?
I look forward to those quarterly reports.
Posted - 12/3/2013 6:51:09 PM | show profile | flag this post
Panic in Conservativeville
Cons are deathly afraid of Obamacare working. Which is why all the desperate attempts to de-fund and repeal.
The website problems are being fixed, and will be fixed, the technology is out there. Millions are signing up for MediCaid millions more will soon sign up for individual policies. And many of those whose policies were cancelled are finding better coverage at a lower price.
What will happen eventually is that the American public will say, we want more. And the ACA will be beefed up.
Cons are shivering.
Oh, and everybody gets a free Obama cell phone. cruiser, you get a Jitterbug with the extra large numbers and buttons so you can see them. Indubitably.
Con/puzo/notch/quinn/freedom/may, yours will be white buttons with black lettering. So you can make racist comments about them.
Newscred and beenthere, you have to go the the ER and pay cash. In advance.
That's how the founding fathers wanted it.
Posted - 12/3/2013 7:22:49 PM | show profile | flag this post
*** Newscred and beenthere, you have to go the the ER and pay cash. In advance. ***
Posted - 12/3/2013 7:30:36 PM | show profile | flag this post
if you're going to post on this forum for people who are in the business, stop stealing our work.
what? thinkeration was i come up with the garbage i post?
silly goober. faking it was so much easier. right cruster?
you will get caught. and called out for your fakeration.
Posted - 12/4/2013 8:59:07 AM | show profile | flag this post
shows his complete lack of understanding of the health insurance issue with these lines:
"BTW, ever done any checking into all those patients who were struggling with medical bills, and facing/going bankrupt from medical bills?
"61% of them HAD INSURANCE. But, but they had insurance, insurance PAYS FOR EVERYTHING!!! Right?"
No. That's one of the issues Obamacare addressed -- sub-standard insurance plans that didn't provide coverage. For those people who actually have to pay more for insurance -- or those who lost their policies -- this fix is part of the cost increase.
We've talked extensively on here about how many plans would drop you the instant you actually needed to pay for health care. Obamacare patches those holes, requiring plans to meet minimum standards.
What you seem to be missing, beenthere, is the cost of health care. On average -- just on average -- expect to pay a quarter of your annual income on health care. You may not spend it all in the same year. And to guarantee that you can afford health care -- without co-pays, deductibles or bankruptcy -- expect to put away $20,000 a year (and hope you don't have to touch ANY of it for at least 10 years) -- or buy insurance. That insurance will likely cost you or your employer just as much -- but you can access it anytime in those 10 years if you have a heart attack or get hit crossing the street or have a hunting accident. If you don't want to pay for the cost of health care through high premiums -- accept the higher deductibles.
You sound like you want other people to pay for your health care if you get sick, beenthere.
As far as facts, read the links I posted. The rate of health care inflation has slowed dramatically. Roughly 51% of people in the individual markets will see cheaper insurance through Obamacare. And if you have insurance through your employer -- you won't notice any changes due to Obamacare. Those are all facts.
Posted - 12/4/2013 10:24:21 AM | show profile | flag this post
Your "facts" are nothing more than debunked talking points and spin. Try to keep up. Pal.
The president's RCP avg. is the lowest of his presidency.
Republicans have about a 3 point generic ballot lead.
Four Democrat senators up for reelection in red states have approval ratings in the thirties.
Yet cons are shivering and deathly afraid of Obamacare working.
MACAULIFFE LANDSIDE!!!!!! AFTER OCT. 1 EVERYONE WILL LOVE OBAMACARE!!!!
Posted - 12/4/2013 12:06:32 PM | show profile | flag this post
notice how quickly the GOP are running back to the IRS and Benghazi nontroversies now that HealthCare.gov is back up and running?
Care to explain to us why Republicans have decided against trying to repeal Obamacare? Care to guess how many Republican candidates will promise to repeal it if elected in 2014?
Oh, and that's GOVERNOR-ELECT MacAuliffe, by the way -- and no one ever claimed he'd win in a landslide.
Posted - 12/4/2013 2:16:22 PM | show profile | flag this post
"notice how quickly the GOP are running back..."
There are SO many scandals that bedevil the Obama administration it's hard to know where to turn next. And while Obama's idiot sole-source contractor might...MIGHT...have gotten the front end of the web site to work passably, the back end is still a disaster. It loses client data and people who THINK they're signed up are not.
But you left wing fringe morons were sobbing the other day that the IRS investigation had been dropped. I, of course, said it hadn't been and was just in a lull because of the agency's non-responsiveness to 90 percent of the data it knows is pertinent to the investigation.
Now it's apparent that the investigation hasn't been dropped at all and your crowing is not only premature but wholly out of place. In fact you might consider prepping those crows for your dinner.
Posted - 12/4/2013 3:24:06 PM | show profile | flag this post
REPUBLICANS SHIVERING!!!! REPUBLICANS DEATHLY AFRAID!!!! RACIST!!!!!!
REPUBLICANS ARE RUNNING ON EMPTY!!!!!
Posted - 12/4/2013 4:44:33 PM | show profile | flag this post
One thing missing...