Opinion on the LAX closure

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newscred Posted - 11/2/2013 5:34:34 AM | show profile | flag this post

Would like to hear your thoughts.

The shooting at LAX today occurred mid morning. It was at a single terminal. It was apparently determined soon after the initial shooting that this was a single incident with a single assailant; not the tip of a larger terrorist event. Even so, it's understandable that there was that initial concern and as a result a heavy police response followed. Fine. But once it was discovered it wasn't a terrorist attack why did they keep the entire airport shut down for as long as they did? Hundreds of people were kept standing in the street and the tarmac for hours and hours. And tonight terminal 3 is still shut down.

It certainly doesn't take much to totally disrupt one of the busiest airports in the nation. I don't think that's a good message to be sending.








cruiser Posted - 11/2/2013 11:35:27 AM | show profile | flag this post

Two thoughts

1) It's been my observation that the procedures of most police departmwnts are fraught with overkill and could certainly stand a rational review and revision.

2) Most departments don't apply their procedures with common sense.

mpdodgson Posted - 11/2/2013 11:47:29 AM | show profile | flag this post

No pleasing you is there?

"it's understandable that there was that initial concern and as a result a heavy police response followed". Ya think? A dead federal employee at an airport?? And they immediately found 'anti-government' crap on the shooter?? I have no problem with "initial concern" lasting six 1/2 hours.

I'd remind you that Boston was 'more than one suspect'--and they even escaped capture on site. I think the 'message being sent' here is that the authorties were being thorough. And that's good.

How many of those commuters who were so inconvenienced, or in the line of fire, want to take part in another 'mentally ill and access to guns debate'?

Grateful Deadline Posted - 11/2/2013 12:36:23 PM | show profile | flag this post

They did it in order to make absolutely certain that they were gathering ALL the evidence and, not only evidence in the Terminal 3.

They went from car to car in parking lots and parking structures, as well as walkways, sidewalks and through other terminals.

This was a serious attack on national security personnel and a crime with multiple victims. It deserved a thorough investigation, even if you personally don't think so.

Grateful Deadline Posted - 11/2/2013 12:40:51 PM | show profile | flag this post

Re-post:

They did it in order to make absolutely certain that they were gathering ALL the evidence, not only evidence inside Terminal 3.

They went from car to car in parking lots and parking structures, as well as searching walkways, sidewalks and other terminals. They needed to know that there were no accomplices or bombs hidden elsewhere on the airport. LAX is not small.

This was a serious attack on national security personnel and a capital crime with multiple victims. It deserved a thorough investigation, even if you personally don't think so.

Grateful Deadline Posted - 11/2/2013 12:52:23 PM | show profile | flag this post

As an aside, are you familiar with Terminal 3, newscred?

It's a very busy terminal, as are all eight of them. I've been through Terminal 3 six times in the past year and a half.

It would be no small task to reschedule all the takeoffs and landings from that terminal into other terminals -- or to beef up security to handle follow-up attacks and/or wannabes. I'm more than a little surprised, given your screen name, that you seem to think it should have been "business as usual" as soon as the shooter was down.

cruiser Posted - 11/2/2013 4:36:12 PM | show profile | flag this post

"'business as usual' as soon as the shooter was down"

That is an egregious...and deliberate...misstatement of newscred's point. He said as soon as it was determined that it was an isolated incident and that the lone shooter was in custody.

Everything else was overkill, about which I posted above. And there certainly was evidence of a lack of application of common sense.

orthicon Posted - 11/2/2013 5:18:39 PM | show profile | flag this post

every day you post, you show your ignorance more and more..

if people are inconvenienced, that's too bad.. but it's a lot better than being shot..

you don't let the scene go back to normal until you are ABSOLUTELY
CERTAIN there is no further threat..

cruiztwit, you shouldn't post about things you know NOTHING about..
and police work is one of the thousands of things you know NOTHING about..

Grateful Deadline Posted - 11/2/2013 5:32:49 PM | show profile | flag this post

Of course, you don't care about possible accomplices, bombs or evidence, cruiser. It would be out of character for you.

You also didn't care about the kids and teachers at Sandy Hook, the movie patrons shot in Colorado, and U.S. soldiers wounded or killed in the Middle East. You definitely don't care about the people here with whom you have near-daily contact. Why would you care about anyone or anything at LAX?

I'm sure you're going to claim extreme highly trained genius-level knowledge of police procedures, airport security, evidence gathering, crisis management, etc., and that the hundreds of national and local decision-makers on this crime who are higher ranking than you are all stupid and/or librul. Or course, you will.

Your nuttiness is occasionally amusing, that's for sure. I'll check in after sitting outside, sipping a beer and judging contest entries on this gloriously beautiful afternoon. By then, I expect you to have blamed everything about the LAX shooting on our foreign-born socialist Muslim president with the fake J.D. from Harvard Law because your favorite bloggers and shouting talk-show entertainers are telling you so. Don't disappoint me now!

mpdodgson Posted - 11/2/2013 7:07:44 PM | show profile | flag this post

Oh shut up aleady.

Neither cruise or newscred were even there--and neither of them are trained law enforcement personnel (or trained 'anything' as far as I can tell), so shut up already.

You're second guessing. Yes, there is something to be said for some "police departmwnts are fraught with overkill and could certainly stand a rational review and revision.[sic]" I'll buy that. (Same could be said be for some 'overkill' neighborhood watch guys, but we'll ignore that). But HOW was this overkill?

It was a down and dead Federal Officer for Chrissakes. At an airport. A gunman with at least one semi or fully auto weapon with three spare clips of ammo with a back full of 'I Hate Gubmint' crap.

"there certainly was evidence of a lack of application of common sense." YEP. And that was on the part of whoever is responsible for giving the shooter the weapon in the first place. Not the cops. Jeez.




nleer Posted - 11/2/2013 8:51:10 PM | show profile | flag this post

Coozer and nonewzcred don't appear to have even the least little bit of knowledge that a first year, local, smallarket journalist would have. All first responder departments respond as if it's the worst case senerio.

In our post 9/11 world (if you don't know what that is, try googling it) countries like Israel have learned in a deadly way about secondary attacks. We don't know what complexities will form the next attack. I'm certainly greateful that you two bozos (with apologies to the great Bozo the Clown) don't have anything what so ever to do with our nation's security.

I would suggest you two go away and not come back until you've learned something, but the rest of us know full well that you dumfukchucks are proud to be stupid.

beenthere Posted - 11/3/2013 11:15:27 AM | show profile | flag this post


It certainly doesn't take much to totally disrupt one of the busiest airports in the nation. I don't think that's a good message to be sending.
__

It's a precursor to start arming the TSA.

The organization has been gaining power steadily for years. Do some research. Learn about VIPER, railway, bus stations, and train stations, about groups hiring TSA at functions (Super Bowl? a H.S. prom?? Really??).

TSA are basically useless. They don't carry weapons. They cannot arrest ANYONE. People have joked for YEARS that attacking the "security" area would be the best place for any attack, as hundreds of people are herded in, kept waiting, "de-armed" all those nail clippers and half tubes of toothpaste and there is no defense. You could take out more people there than there on a regular flight.

The fact that people *think* TSA keep us safe is laughable. Stealing nail clippers? Swiss army knives? From citizens who have committed NO CRIMES nor are under suspicion?

Look for it. Armed TSA at an airport near you. They barely have any training as it is. OK, start flaming!!! Cognitive dissonance!!!

Cognitive dissonance. I've also found it rather odd that once they take your suspicious items, they dump them in a container, two feet away. All the tubes of explosive toothpaste and water bottles, too dangerous to take on the plane, are thrown in ONE BIN RIGHT NEXT TO EVERYONE.

Does that sound like safety protocol??

I mean really. Who the HELL handwrites notes anymore? And then carries them around??

Cognitive dissonance.




cruiser Posted - 11/3/2013 11:20:59 AM | show profile | flag this post

That's because

in small markets where anything major RARELY happens, the first responders get to act like they're repelling an invasion of our country. They get VERY few chances in their lifetimes to flex their "saviour" muscles.

But in a major market...a busy, cosmopolitan place like LAX...they should have it localized JUST AS SOON AS THEY DISCOVER THAT THE INCIDENT WAS ISOLATED AND THE SHOOTER WAS ACTING ALONE AND IS IN CUSTODY.

Why inconvenience hundreds or thousands of people unnecessarily?

Sure. Investigate to your hearts' content but cordon off the immediate area and DON'T KEEP PEOPLE STANDING ON THE TARMAC FOR HOURS. Bladders only have so much capacity...

newscred Posted - 11/3/2013 1:28:05 PM | show profile | flag this post

OK

It's always interesting how the personal attacks come before discussion of the topic. I guess I'm an idiot for bringing up the subject.

Nobody is saying the authorities shouldn't ensure a crime scene is secured before letting people back in. I know this guy could have been one of many, but when it was discovered he wasn't, it is reasonable to believe things should be quickly returned to normal. The Israeli's, who've dealt with a few incidents of terrorism, apparently have a standing procedure that is designed to take the control away (as much as possible) from the attackers. They return things to normal operation as soon as humanly possible so they don't achieve the full psychological effect of their act. Seems to me that's a good approach.

cruster Posted - 11/3/2013 1:31:02 PM | show profile | flag this post

Bladders only have so much capacity

And those greatly diminish over time and in some cases all capacity is lost.

All the fluoridated water has to go somewhere.

What newscred and cruiser are trying to say it this:

"How can we turn this event into an argument with the lefties? I know! Let's claim it should have been handled differently."

Eventually it's Obama's fault.


Grateful Deadline Posted - 11/3/2013 3:19:21 PM | show profile | flag this post

>> The Israeli's, who've dealt with a few incidents of terrorism, apparently have a standing procedure that is designed to take the control away (as much as possible) from the attackers. They return things to normal operation as soon as humanly possible so they don't achieve the full psychological effect of their act. Seems to me that's a good approach. <<

Yes, that's it exactly! The city of Los Angeles needs to divide up LAX and separate the parts from each other so that each piece has the area size and traffic of Ben Gurion Airport. That way, what's humanly possible will be achieved faster.

Grateful Deadline Posted - 11/3/2013 3:32:00 PM | show profile | flag this post

***
Why inconvenience hundreds or thousands of people unnecessarily? ***

It must be terribly frustrating to see little value in human life while loving bombs and firearms so much, then to have no understanding of the magnitude of LAX's logistics, and now to be an outsider trying hard to bludgeon other posters with his strong opinions based on the incomplete information available to him in the faraway place where he lives.





Grateful Deadline Posted - 11/3/2013 4:18:10 PM | show profile | flag this post

I apologize for laughing. I always forget that no matter how long you guys are here, you're still different from news media professionals. We are not on equal ground. There are things you don't even know that you don't know, but that news professionals do know. Israel's military police setup seems to be one of them. There are many, many others evident in this thread.

That's what makes it frustrating to have you here. It's virtually impossible to carry on a conversation because you don't have the knowledge base, and you want to preserve not having it. All you think is that news people are attacking you, when really we're just flabbergasted over the stuff you come up with. It's preposterous, most of it, and seems to be manufactured and uncorroborated. No matter how insulting and confrontational you get, you will not make us forget everything we know about things like police investigative procedure and corroboration of information.

I'm not trying to put you down; I'm just saying that if you want to make any headway with journalists on a professionals' forum, then it's best to learn what professional journalists do. There are places to learn, but you have to be willing. You'd have a lot less paranoia and anger if you took that step.



cruiser Posted - 11/3/2013 4:50:08 PM | show profile | flag this post

You are a very small person

Likely small in stature, small in intellect and small in compassion.

And you always find it necessary to try to pump yourself up by reciting the things you think you know that no one else knows.

Pitiable.

orthicon Posted - 11/4/2013 1:22:02 AM | show profile | flag this post

you realize, i hope.. that you've just described..

yourself.. to a "t"..

of course you don't..

beenthere Posted - 11/4/2013 9:59:57 AM | show profile | flag this post

TSA union calls for armed guards at every checkpoint

I must be psychic.

TSA union calls for armed guards at every checkpoint

Brian Tumulty, USA TODAY
4:39 a.m. EST November 3, 2013

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2013/11/02/tsa-lax-shooting-armed-guards/3394601/

WASHINGTON — The union representing airport screeners for the Transportation Security Administration says Friday's fatal shooting of an agent at Los Angeles International Airport highlights the need for armed security officers at every airport checkpoint.



cruiser Posted - 11/4/2013 12:46:43 PM | show profile | flag this post

Who'da thunk???

All we need is more...in this case MANY more...uniforms carrying sidearms. You really haven't considered the term "police state" until you contemplate this scenario.

TSA agents are low-paid, relatively low-skilled and not psychologically tested as law enforcement personnel are. Arming them would be a disaster waiting to happen.

orthicon Posted - 11/4/2013 1:15:14 PM | show profile | flag this post

you're doing your usual jump off the cliff into stupidity..

no one is saying the armed guards have to be TSA officers..could be.. should be..trained law enforcement personnel.. police, airport police..

here in san diego, we have the san diego harbor police who patrol the airport..could be deputy sheriffs.. could be anyone..

or..they could select and train TSA people who would actually qualify to BE sworn law enforcement..there's lots of room at club fed in glencoe, Georgia..where many federal officers are trained..any number of ways to accomplish it..without upsetting cruiztwit and the rest of the john birch society..

cruiser Posted - 11/4/2013 1:33:27 PM | show profile | flag this post

And you represent yourself as a "journalist"...

among other improbably things.

It's the TSA itself or its union that's calling for the arming of its personnel. That would be a disaster.

it's just tv folks Posted - 11/4/2013 2:03:34 PM | show profile | flag this post

So 2oldcruztwit, you are against having properly trained armed security people protecting airports, but you are perfectly fine with mentally ill people obtaining as many guns and rounds as they want. In fact, you don't want to impede any criminal, terrorist, violent person from amassing an arsenal. What about the nra's stupid statement, "the only way to stop a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun"?

Hmmmmmmmmm.


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