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Ready for 2016?
Posted - 1/7/2013 2:38:34 PM | show profile | flag this post
It may appear to you that Cubans look out only for other Cubans, but that's not true. They do, however, have a history and background that attract them to the Republican Party, while Latinos of other national heritages have different histories and backgrounds that attract them to the Democratic Party.
They're just like other voters, who choose the candidate and the party they believe will best serve the public interest.
I'm sure there are Latinos stupid enough to vote for a Latino only because he's a Latino, just as there are white Anglos stupid enough to vote only for white Anglos because they're white Anglos.
As for Marco Rubio, he's a cute little critter. I could look at him all day long. But he doesn't have my vote.
Posted - 1/7/2013 3:30:27 PM | show profile | flag this post
mp, think about this, you claim that I'm starting to sound like a "confused" Karl Rove, Dick Morris, Mitt Romney or "anyone on Fox." Leaving out the word "confused" for now, you automatically assume that sounding like one of these men (or women) is a bad thing! I submit to you that half of the country disagrees with that, but you don't seem to fathom it, or if you do, you automatically seem to assume that conservative thought is somehow mentally defective. Yet, this conservative at least, does not look at liberals that way. From my perspective, we simply disagree. We may disagree vehemently, but we disagree. I don't think that you're "confused." I just think you're wrong. Your comment does not insult me, though it does confuse me (irony intentional.) Just a thought.
But much more importantly, you take the most extreme right wing behavior (rise in white supremacy, Obama death threats etc.) and you launch it as a propaganda device which I see repeatedly employed among liberals. Liberals will take these instances, hype them, repeat them to each other on a loop just long enough that some come to believe that this extremism represents the entire right wing while others "hope" that they can convince voters that is "does" represent the entire right wing. You (in general) pound the drum loudly enough to the point where you actually feel justified saying, as you did, that "GOP/conservatives/wingnuts make it clear they don't like black people.." WHAT?
ARE YOU KIDDING ME? There is zero basis to say that. Are there instances of racism in the country? Yes. Can you ascribe it to the entire GOP/conservative wing? Again. ARE YOU KIDDING ME? Based on what? Early Tea Party support for Herman Cain? George W. Bush hiring two highly qualified people (Colin Powell & Condi Rice) for his cabinet? Two people who happened to be black?
It's true that conservatives do not believe in so-called "affirmative-action" or massive welfare handouts. But it's because we believe these programs keep people in poverty by encouraging cushy reliance on government. Mathematically, it's quite fair, I believe, to call Obama is the "food stamp president." The number of people on food stamps is astounding, sad and pathetic. He had four years to help make people self-sufficient. Instead, he made it worse.
I also find it curious that you have no trouble condemning the entire right wing as bigots but you can't possibly imagine blacks voting for Obama because he is black.
Posted - 1/7/2013 3:34:34 PM | show profile | flag this post
Grateful. My view of hispanics as a group "who largely want to make it in America" is far from belittling or ridiculous IF you take the time to look at the evidence:
"Despite the growing attention paid to Latinos in recent years, this population is characterized by relatively low socio-economic status, and Latinos frequently rank behind the majority white population and other minority groups when it comes to education, finances, and employment." - from Latinos and the Economy by David Leal and Stephen Trejo. http://www.springer.com/social+sciences/political+science/book/978-1-4419-6681-0
"More Latino children are living in poverty—6.1 million in 2010-than children of any other racial or ethnic group. This marks the first time in U.S. history that the single largest group of poor children is not white. In 2010, 37.3% of poor children were Latino, 30.5% were white and 26.6% were black." http://www.pewtrusts.org/our_work_report_detail.aspx?id=85899364559
"However, most Hispanic origin groups had lower median household incomes in 2010 than in 2000 (adjusted to 2010 dollars). Overall, median household income among Hispanics fell from $43,100 in 2000 to $40,000 in 2010—a decrease of 7%. And the share living in poverty increased two percentage points, from 23% in 2000 to 25% in 2010." http://www.pewhispanic.org/2012/06/27/the-10-largest-hispanic-origin-groups-characteristics-rankings-top-counties/
Hispanics, as a demographic, want to make it in America just like the Italians, Irish and Poles did a century ago. Why would there be anything wrong with acknowledging that?
Furthermore, I would never look at hispanics as "a blob." I am looking at them as "a demographic" for the sake of our discussion. Just as you were quick to pull out the demographics on women, age groups, whites etc.. for the sake of discussion. Do you look at "women" as a blob? Or "whites?" I don't think so.
The difference here is that my beliefs are speculative. I am making an educated guess that if the first hispanic were to be nominated for one of the two top offices, that a majority of hispanics would vote for him or her regardless of the candidate's party affiliation. Maybe I'm wrong. Maybe, as orth said, hispanics have strong allegiances to their countries of origin or ancestry. However, I don't think those allegiances would trump the idea of having the first hispanic vp or president.
Two million more blacks voted in 2008 than in 2004. And the reason for that was what exactly? Did they suddenly come to believe that they should exercise their right to vote? Or did they have a candidate whose election would make them feel good?
I am sure we agree that it would be great if everyone voted on policy. However, I don't think America is there yet.
Posted - 1/7/2013 3:36:25 PM | show profile | flag this post
At least we agree that we could look at Marco all day long.... :)
Posted - 1/7/2013 5:39:25 PM | show profile | flag this post
stopbs, you're putting me in a weird position. It isn't that I haven't felt like a zoo animal on exhibit before when someone thinks they know all about Hispanics and tells me all about myself and my "demographic."
It's that, to me, it's ludicrous for you to do this. You haven't stated anything about the depth of your involvement with Hispanics nationwide, and I could be wrong but I think it's because you haven't had any. If you did, you wouldn't be tossing generalized blanket statistics in my direction; you'd have the respect born of that experience in order not to expect someone who knows and lives the nuances not to buy into that sort of play.
What you've posted so far shows no depth of knowledge about our culture, history or values and how those shape what's important to us in politics. It's a little like the GOP's grave error in thinking that the issue of paramount importance to all Latinos in the 2012 presidential election was immigration. It was just plain silly.
Please try to view us, address us and speak about us (and African Americans, while you're at it) as people, not as a group, a study subject or as if we haven't been woven into the fabric of this nation since the nation was founded. We have brains that think like yours, families like yours, desires and needs like yours, and aspirations identical to yours.
Speaking of desires, see? You and I can both appreciate Marco Rubio as eye candy.