Posted - 7/23/2012 12:59:01 PM | show profile | flag this post
I would encourage us to enjoy a brief moment of bi-partisanship and common sense. As you recall, recently a portion of an Obama speech was excerpted and made to sound as though he were saying business owners didn't deserve the credit for their own innovation and hard work. That wasn't of course, what he meant, or in context, even what he said.
That didn't keep many from making Everests and K2s out of the molehill comment.
Well, now surfaces a piece from Mitt Romney telling Olympians in Salt Lake City that "You Olympians, however, know you didn't get here solely on your own power,” said Romney, who on Friday will attend the Opening Ceremonies of this year’s Summer Olympics. “For most of you, loving parents, sisters or brothers, encouraged your hopes, coaches guided, communities built venues in order to organize competitions. All Olympians stand on the shoulders of those who lifted them. We’ve already cheered the Olympians, let’s also cheer the parents, coaches, and communities."
Can we all manage to agree that Romney wasn't wrong then, nor was Obama wrong recently?
|it's just tv folks||
Posted - 7/23/2012 2:11:00 PM | show profile | flag this post
I absolutely agree VTexan
Each generation doesn't have to figure out how to create fire. Each generation doesn't need to create the wheel. Each business doesn't have to build the infrastructure needed to have a successful business, things like roads and transportation, sewer and water, the internet, safety like police and fire.
Olympians need the support of family and community. There may be a couple who are rich enough to build their own track, pool, gym, etc and hire the appropriate trainers/coaches but they are the exception.
Thank you for the post VTexan.
Posted - 7/23/2012 2:35:37 PM | show profile | flag this post
No VTexan, I don't agree
The LAST thing business owners want is for the government to be our parents and brothers and sisters and nannies. Yes, those people in a person's private life probably did help the athlete.
However, as business owners (speaking for my spouse now) we want government to get our of our way. Yes, we will pay taxes for the roads and police and fire protection which we need to run our businesses. But outside of that, make the permitting process simple or non-existent. Make the safety laws reasonable given the nature of the business and keep your hands out of our pockets. We don't owe the community anything but good service at a fair price and if we provide that we will prosper and when we do we want to KEEP OUR MONEY. After paying our workers, we owe our success to no one else. If we fail, that is our problem. Don't bail us out! Someone who can run the company better, faster, cheaper or provide a better product will succeed. That is the gist of it. The government gave us nothing but the few services mentioned. We paid for those services. We are even. We owe them nothing. You are comparing apples to oranges.
I appreciate your attempt at a Kumbaya moment. But, for me, it's not there.
Posted - 7/23/2012 2:39:40 PM | show profile | flag this post
Posted - 7/23/2012 2:46:15 PM | show profile | flag this post
I have to disagree.....
Obama CLEARLY implied the government.
"If you were successful, somebody along the line gave you some help. There was a great teacher somewhere in your life. Somebody helped to create this unbelievable American system that we have that allowed you to thrive. Somebody invested in roads and bridges. If you’ve got a business -- you didn’t build that. Somebody else made that happen. The Internet didn’t get invented on its own. Government research created the Internet so that all the companies could make money off the Internet."
I don't no "somebody" who invested in bridges and roads.
The "somebody" is government which has no idea that any small business even exists to "help" them.
He quotes government in developing the internet.
And the "system" that has allowed America to thrive is freedom from government.
Romney specifically states individuals who helped the Olympians.
Posted - 7/23/2012 3:58:50 PM | show profile | flag this post
many people on the forums have gotten into trouble..
misreading what they think are "clear implications" about anything..
i didn't read the president's remarks anything like others did..and we all have our own readings of them..
all depends what color lens you're reading then through, doesn't it?..
Posted - 7/23/2012 4:22:55 PM | show profile | flag this post
>>> There was a great teacher somewhere in your life. Somebody helped to create this unbelievable American system that we have that allowed you to thrive. <<<
These two items specifically have no government overtones to me. My business benefited greatly, and continues to benefit, from not only the people who taught me how to run a business but also from the mentors I continue to have. The system that allows me to thrive is free enterprise. I get what I sell to my clients via my ISP and the Web, using equipment I didn't invent, perfect or build. I work from a location I didn't construct, on a private road I didn't build, drinking coffee I didn't grow, roast or grind.
Even if my business were raising rutabagas on my own property, I'd still need rutabaga customers in order to make money -- unless I printed the money, too.
Posted - 7/23/2012 5:00:56 PM | show profile | flag this post
A couple of observations....
Comparing publically funded Olympic athletes to private business owners is a stretch. The objection most people, myself included, have to the President's comment was it is used as a justification for a tax increase. Personally I would think creating jobs is more important than a few dollars more in taxes. In case you do not realize it, businesses never pay taxes. Their taxes are paid by their customers just like all other expenses. Raise expenses high enough and they will be forced to lay off employees.
Do businesses owe the community that supports them? Of course they do, and providing jobs is the best way to pay it back. Squeezing a few more tax dollars out of them helps no one and can only end up increasing unemployment.
Posted - 7/23/2012 6:25:16 PM | show profile | flag this post
You don't think you're extrapolating a little bit?
Posted - 7/23/2012 6:51:17 PM | show profile | flag this post
From the same speech....
"I’m not going to see us gut the investments that grow our economy to give tax breaks to me or Mr. Romney or folks who don’t need them". This was the paragraph before the "you did not get there on your own".
Posted - 7/23/2012 7:34:10 PM | show profile | flag this post
"a great teacher somewhere in your life"
No government overtones???
Uhh, you oughta rethink that.
Posted - 7/23/2012 8:03:44 PM | show profile | flag this post
that thinkerating crap is unreadable and makes the
poster look ridiculous.
Posted - 7/23/2012 8:04:48 PM | show profile | flag this post
When I think back
...on the teachers who inspired me...I sure don't think of some remote "government" type. I think of people an arm's length away from me, trying to spur thought and creativity in me. Call them "government" if you'd like, but calling them that sure doesn't make them that. They were my teachers, and they were doing just that: teaching me.
I think the attempt to make Romney's statement fine and Obama's not is hair-splitting at best.
Posted - 7/23/2012 8:44:49 PM | show profile | flag this post
The people who taught me business were business people -- people who owned or managed small businesses. They graciously taught me every aspect of how their businesses operated and why they were successful.
Posted - 7/23/2012 8:49:06 PM | show profile | flag this post
I think it's a worthy topic
Just for the heck of it, I just checked out Romneys offical website. Under Bio. This is what they say about the Olympics:
"In 1999, the Salt Lake City Winter Olympics was on the verge of collapse. Thanks to his reputation as a superb manager, Mitt was asked to take over. The event had been bogged down in a bid-rigging scandal, sponsors were fleeing, and the budget was bleeding red ink. The attacks of September 11, 2001, just months before the start date, created a security nightmare. Some were contemplating scaling back the competition or even moving it out of the country.
Mitt set to work. In a remarkably short period, he revamped the organization’s leadership, trimmed the budget, and restored public confidence. He oversaw an unprecedented security mobilization to assure the safety of the athletes and millions of international visitors, staging one of the most successful games ever held on U.S. soil."
(I think it's disgusting they dragged in a flag-draped 9/11 two years after Mitt, but that's them) Not one mention of a billion dollar bailout by the American taxpayer for a sports event. Is that dishonest? Because they just 'left it out'? You be the judge. But I submit it's typical of not only the Romney campaign, but of others on the 'Right' in general who have absolutely no problem benefitting from 'Government'--as long as they get to crtiticize it too for benefitting others.
stopbs; Are you seriously implying that small business gets NOTHING from government?? Loans, tax breaks, (Yes and the $33B in stimulus tax breaks people for people like you no one hears about). Easing up on permit and/or safety laws is going to 'spur' business somehow??? Yea. That's worked out real well.
Are your sppuse (and his employees) NOT protected by unemployment? Or is all that going to come
out of your pocket if the worse happens??
And one other point--several people mentioned it--the infrastructure. It doesn't matter whether it's stopbs' business, or Ford, or Apple, or Starbucks. You just can't get 'stuff from point A to point B' without it. And THAT was, and is, the 'government' whether you liek it or not. You want those bridges and dams and highways, you just don't want to hear where it all came from.
Posted - 7/23/2012 9:09:14 PM | show profile | flag this post
But Wait--There's More
The "star" of a Romney ad lamenting Obama's statements about small business...received million$ of dollars in government loans and contracts.
Who do I see about replacing my Irony-O-Meter. It's done busted after this one.
Posted - 7/24/2012 8:06:40 AM | show profile | flag this post
More thoughts on giving back...
If any of you have ever been involved in any non-faith based charities you would be aware of how much businesses already give back to their communities. United Way would not exist without the business community support, school systems depend on grants from businesses for technololgy, hospital expansions are funded by businesses, thousands of homes built by Habitate for Humanity all funded by businesses, etc, etc,etc.. My company donated over a million dollars to local charities over the last 5 years alone. Funny how all of that was ignored by the President.
By the way, you guys in the Obama camp better tread lightly over the government funded contracts awarded to private industry. I would think that's the last thing you want people talking about.
Posted - 7/24/2012 10:11:12 AM | show profile | flag this post
To be sure
...that Obama (or any candidate) hit every angle of a subject on every speech...would be ridiculous. If someone gives me a compliment on something I did and I fail to credit my mother...doesn't mean that I'm unaware of her positive influence on my rearing. This is a false litmus.
Posted - 7/24/2012 10:33:13 AM | show profile | flag this post
Obama hearts socialism. He is all about collectivism. Romney believes in individualism. So we know the difference in the speeches. This is a bulls$$t comparison. Another failed attempt by the liberal media to defend Obama.
Romney needs to roll out commercials featuring this image…
You own a lemonade stand, kid, good for you … but I want to be clear, those lemons were moved to market on roads the rest of us paid for ….
Posted - 7/24/2012 10:46:29 AM | show profile | flag this post
Let's go there, VTexan...
Let's just say someone did compliment me for a good job followed by the comment "Well now let's not forget you would not have done this without a support team" that would say to me that this person thinks I don't know that or thinks I am not giving back to those who made my success possibile. You sort of neglected that part of the speech. He was clear in his comments, successful people did not get successful on their own and need to pay back the community for their success. No mention of the fact they already do, just that they need to. I can't think for a minute he was just pressed for time and left that out to keep the speech short.
Posted - 7/24/2012 2:19:59 PM | show profile | flag this post
For your premise to be true
Obama would have to be unaware and/or unappreciative of what businesses do for charity. He was an attorney, a state senator and a national senator before he was President. You really think he got to that point, meeting with tens of thousands of people, including business leaders of all kinds, without being aware of what business does in the realm of charity? Politicians are acutely aware that their shrinking budgets allow less and less for people of great need and that gap is largely bridged by organizations and businesses that give money, talent and time.
And you base this wackadelphia view on a live Obama speech?
Blacked, you're under-performing here mightily. If you're thinking you've made a solid case you must have drank a solid case, 'cause that's weak.
Posted - 7/24/2012 6:04:25 PM | show profile | flag this post
First I base my comments on the entire speech. Here is the link: http://www.whitehouse.gov/the-press-office/2012/07/13/remarks-president-campaign-event-roanoke-virginia
Now if as you claim he is fully aware of the contributions businesses makes to the communities he neglected to mention it. I can't imagine why since his message was that business owes the community. Here are his exact words: "If you’ve got a business -- you didn’t build that. Somebody else made that happen." Not someone helped, they "made that happen". His words, not mine.
And I am surprised you think so little of me or my opinions that you think I go to, what did you call them, "wackapedia" sights. Oh well.
Posted - 7/24/2012 6:51:04 PM | show profile | flag this post
I don't see/hear the obsession over this out-of-context statement being carried on anywhere but here.
How old is this now?
Posted - 7/24/2012 7:40:40 PM | show profile | flag this post
Do you conclude that since Obama once said he'd been to 57 states...that's proof he believes there are 57?
I don't think that's a safe conclusion. I suggest you shouldn't believe that since Romney said Corporations are people that there's a Mr. Windows, a Mrs. Pizza Hut, and a Ms. Exxon-Mobil.
Posted - 7/24/2012 8:48:47 PM | show profile | flag this post
But grateful deadline says we cannot talk about this anymore. Oh well, I enjoyed the conversation. See ya around.