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"Some Live. Some Die"
Posted - 6/8/2013 8:50:02 AM | show profile | flag this post
Obama's HHS department, denies giving a health waiver for a lung transplant.
Whatever happened to Obama's claim that doctors would make health decisions under Obamacare?
Posted - 6/8/2013 9:28:26 AM | show profile | flag this post
...to sourcing wack-a-doodle claims? I don't know what you're talking about (which probably puts us on equal ground).
Posted - 6/8/2013 10:07:19 AM | show profile | flag this post
This is an "organ transplant" story
It has nothing whatsoever to do with 'death panels' or Obamacare.
"A federal judge on Wednesday ordered HHS Secretary Kathleen Sebelius to allow 10-year-old Sarah Murnaghan to be moved to the adult lung transplant list, giving her a better chance of receiving a potentially life-saving transplant."
Murnaghan has cystic fibrosis and her doctors have said she may only live a few weeks without the transplant. She has been on the waiting list for pediatric donors for 18 months, but they are more rare and her condition is worsening. There’s no guarantee that even with the judge’s ruling, a suitable donor will become available in time, but her odds would be better.
The case played out amid growing controversy with Sebelius in the spotlight. Several right-wing blogs and commentators depicted her as a one-woman “death panel.” The child’s mother said Sebelius was choosing to let children die.
Transplant policy — for lungs and other organs — in the U.S. is made and administered by the OPTN working with the United Network for Organ Sharing under contract with the government. It’s inherently difficult because there aren’t enough organs for everyone who needs them, and people do die waiting.
“I think it’s unfortunate that the courts intercede in cases that you would hope would be settled by doctors and families,” she said. Transplantation policy is developed after years of deliberation by knowledgeable experts, she said, adding that “there’s a lot at stake here that has to do with fidelity and trust in our system.”
A very conservative op-ed put it this way: "The story, however, has loosed a torrent of demagoguery -- some of it coming from the very people who should be most alarmed about the politicization of cases like Sarah's and of health care generally.
Talk radio and TV have been ringing with strident and even hysterical accusations that HHS Secretary Kathleen Sebelius is "letting this little girl die," or "choosing who will live and who will die." Some are linking Sebelius's supposed callousness to the terrible, politicized rationing of care that Obamacare will inaugurate.
This is all backwards. The people calling upon Sebelius to intervene and grant a waiver from the usual rules regarding children and transplants are the ones urging the politicization of medical care -- at least in this case. They would be the ones responsible for setting a terrible precedent. The lesson would be this: If you can muster public pressure through social media, the press and politicians, your loved one can get an advantage over others waiting for a lung or kidney or liver.
Posted - 6/8/2013 12:43:29 PM | show profile | flag this post
This is nothing less than a libelous statement that was clipped from an actual quote to give what she said a completely different meaning. It was edited to make it sound like she was saying that some live, some die, tough shit. Here's what she actually said.
“I would suggest, sir, that, again, this is an incredibly agonizing situation where someone lives and someone dies,” she replied.
“The medical evidence and the transplant doctors who are making the rule — and have had the rule in place since 2005 making a delineation between pediatric and adult lungs, because lungs are different than other organs — that it’s based on the survivability [chances],” she added.
She was saying that it was agonizing to have to step in to situations where someone will live and another will die because there aren't enough transplant organs available. She was saying how difficult it was not to intervene, which she has no right to since she isn't a doctor. The girl was off the list because there are transplant problems with kids under 10 receiving adult organs. It is a medical issue.
The idiots who claim there is a "librul media" should look at this. Breitbart started this and other con media picked it up. It is a fabrication at best, and anyone who tries to pass this along should have their journalism card yanked. Of course, anyone who is a real journalist would have actually read what she said. I hope Sebelius takes Breitbart to court and sues their asses for making up news to fit their agenda. Cons can't be trusted with news, it is all about their agenda and secondcoming should be ashamed to be duped into posting this. You need to go back to remedial journalism class and go back to the part on basic rules and ethics.
Posted - 6/8/2013 4:57:23 PM | show profile | flag this post
It's the simple truth
Which is why you libs don't know about it, (Vtexan), or why you post a 40 line response.
This is Obamacare. Which is what you libs wanted.
The government, not a doctor, deciding who gets a medical procedure. In this case, a 12 year girl was told no to a transplant(which is a medical procedure), by the secretary of HHS.
It's a one person death panel, thanks to Obamacare.
Posted - 6/8/2013 6:20:29 PM | show profile | flag this post
mighta happened that way on YOUR planet, second..
but you obviously have NO clue how this all unfolded..
everything you've posted about it wrong..especially your feeble effort to somehow connect it to obamacare..which of course didn't even exist when this policy came to be..
go back in your cave.. we'll call you in the highly unlikely event your input is ever needed..about anything..
Posted - 6/8/2013 8:44:42 PM | show profile | flag this post
I'm so sorry secondcoming
I taxed your brain there...but you obviously we're 100% un-informed and lied to about the whole story. "Clueless" would be an insult to "Clueless" fans.
"This is Obamacare" "DEATH PANEL" No, obviously not. The rule barring children under 12 from being placed on the adult transplant list was passed in 2005 under the Bush administration.
"The government, not a doctor, deciding who gets a medical procedure" No, obviously not. The new rule required the Organ Procurement and Transplantation Network and United Network for Organ Sharing (including Doctors of course) to prioritize transplant patients based on “the highest medical urgency while maximizing utility by avoiding futile transplantation,” and the rule has worked very well. Waiting time has decreased dramatically.
"a 12 year girl was told no to a transplant(which is a medical procedure), by the secretary of HHS." No, obviously not. Secretary Sebelius was stating that unavoidably harsh fact of transplant lists as the reason she should not intervene and make personal choices. And she was correct, as even the National Review‘s Yuval Levin admits:
"In fact, the logic of this situation works roughly the other way. The members pressing this case are asking a politically appointed official to take directly upon herself the role of making life-or-death decisions in individual cases."
If you absolutely NOTHING about a story except what you've been told by Obama Haters; don't bring it up. Please.
Posted - 6/9/2013 10:45:48 AM | show profile | flag this post
It's really not too much to ask
...to ask you (2ndcoming) to explain, give context or a source to what the hell you're talking about. You do this a LOT: post a sentence or two, with no setup, no context, no sense of what you're even talking about. It's wise to remember that other people aren't living between your ears with you. Of course wisdom and you may not have a lot of overlap.
Posted - 6/9/2013 2:38:11 PM | show profile | flag this post
Its not too much to ask you libs
to think and to use common sense is it?
If you haven't heard about this story, I can't help you.
The bottom line is this. The Government is making a life and death medical decision. The child's doctor says she can handle the transplant. But the government, Obama's government, said NO.
I don't want any government official deciding on ANY medical procedures. Democrat or republican. And I don't want the IRS enforcing it, given Obama's use of the IRS on political enemies.
Posted - 6/9/2013 3:43:41 PM | show profile | flag this post
THAT is what we're asking you secondcoming
"think and to use common sense"
"If you haven't heard about this story, I can't help you." Then you READ the story. This has nothing to do with Death Panels or ObamacCare or anything else like that. It's a "transplant list" issue. That issue has been around for decades.
"The Government is making a life and death medical decision." NO--The Board is. "But the government, Obama's government, said NO." Of course not. The panel has nothing to do with Obama or Sebilius.
IF you want to be in the same mental category as Palin or Bachmann, and unfortunately many others, fine. But please post facts and sources, or you will continually be ridiculed.
Posted - 6/9/2013 3:44:17 PM | show profile | flag this post
Yes, you can help
You can do as common sense tells you: tell people what you're talking about, who your talking about, where people can find out more.
Or you can continue to do as you do, which makes you seem like someone with something to hide, someone who trolls right wing sites, finds a smidgeon that interests you, and posts it without attribution. Sound familiar?
Further, what we have now are Insurance bureaucrats making the life-or-death decisions. And they have a specific monetary objective for denying us the coverage we might need. Obviously you haven't thought this out very carefully. You might give it a try.
Posted - 6/10/2013 9:37:10 AM | show profile | flag this post
Secondcoming, it would help if you read about the subject...
Instead of just blathering off the top of your head. This is a MEDICAL decision, not administrative. Young children are not put on the adult list for the simple reason the organs from an adult are too large and cannot be transplanted successfully. This is not something done to punish kids, it is done to make transplants go to the people who will be successful candidates, period. There are a lot of people who die while on the transplant list, there just aren't enough organs to go around. It is a very difficult procedure. There are reasons for these rules, so any bullshit from idiots like you about "death panels" are pure ignorance. Really, stop listening to Rush, stop reading Drudge and stop watching Fox News.
Posted - 6/10/2013 11:42:26 AM | show profile | flag this post
these rules were in place LONG before Obamacare was enacted.
I noticed you were not able to post a single source showing how Obamacare was responsible -- no law, no section of the Affordable Health Care Act -- so I guess you'll just have to concede you were wrong.
Posted - 6/11/2013 2:12:41 PM | show profile | flag this post
Here's what's funny...
there are going to be many more people eligible for transplants under Obamacare, contrary to secondcoming's erroneous beliefs...many people who were denied health care because of preexisting conditions will now be covered. You really need to read about a subject before embarrassing yourself even further with your dimwitted talking points.
Posted - 6/11/2013 2:15:46 PM | show profile | flag this post
One more thing, secondgradeeducation...
You have not addressed the fact that Sebilius' quote was completely edited contrary to what she actually said. That was wrong, plain and simple, and if you can't understand that you have no business in this business. I can only hope you are not involved in TV or any other kind of news gathering.
Posted - 6/12/2013 6:35:15 AM | show profile | flag this post
None of you understand the point
Which doesn't surprise me.
The point is, it doesn't matter who enacted the rules. The Obama administration got a request for a waiver to allow a ten year old girl to be placed on the adult lung transplant list.
The child's doctor says that the medical procedure will work.
The Obama administration could have granted the waiver, based on the doctors recommendation and request. But the Obama administration said NO.
Therefore, we have Obama's administration dictating to a doctor what procedures are allowed or not allowed.
Government, republican or democrat, has no business denying medical procedures on individuals. Obamacare is looking scarier by the day. And with the IRS enforcing it, I wonder who will get approved for their medical procedures and who will get denied by the Obama administration?
Posted - 6/12/2013 8:09:43 AM | show profile | flag this post
We have tried, seriously tried, to get youto read up on this before knee-jerking in to Anti-Obama mode.
This has NOTHING to do with ObamaCare. Having your ill child on a transplant waiting list is a heart-breaking situation. For your child to live, obviously someone else has to die. The Organ Procurement and Transplantation Network and United Network for Organ Sharing (including Doctors of course) is in place to make the tough decisons.
The LAST thing we need is for politicians to step in and over-rule them. If that were to happen--you would be screaming 'ObamaCare Death Panel-- If it doesn't happen--you scream 'ObamaCare Death Panel'.
And "WE" don't understand the point?????
Posted - 6/12/2013 11:58:13 AM | show profile | flag this post
"Government, republican or democrat, has no business denying medical procedures on individuals."
So I take it you agree that if a woman wants to have an abortion at any point in her pregnancy, she should be able to?
Posted - 6/13/2013 1:32:12 PM | show profile | flag this post
On top of that, second...
Secretary Sebelius deferred to the wishes of medical doctors in her decision -- the non-political panel of transplant doctors that set the rules.
Looks like secondcoming would prefer a bureaucrat like Sebelius to make our medical decisions for us -- instead of doctors.
Posted - 6/13/2013 10:10:27 PM | show profile | flag this post
Secondhelping is wrong again...
You are the one missing the point. There are rules about child transplants for a MEDICAL reason. Children under 12 can't take lungs, etc from adults because they are too large. It isn't an arbitrary rule, it is called medicine and the decisions were made by people who understand the process, not idiots in journalism who get caught up in the emotional part of the story. Sebelius made the right call. Political pressure made it so the girl got her transplant. I am very happy for her and hope she lives a long and healthy life. But this isn't a Lifetime special, it is real life and you need to accept that.
Posted - 6/14/2013 6:08:38 PM | show profile | flag this post
It's government healthcare
Whether you want to admit it or not.
Doctor wants to perform a transplant."
Government denied the request.
Posted - 6/14/2013 8:14:28 PM | show profile | flag this post
secondstring..that comment alone should tell you..
why absolutely no one on these boards takes anything you have to say seriously..
why you're the second biggest joke on these boards.. behind only cruiztwit..
Posted - 6/15/2013 12:16:47 PM | show profile | flag this post
Haha...second helping is such a Bozo...
Doctors DIDN'T want to perform the transplant. The family wanted it done and doctors were using medical regulations put in effect by DOCTORS to say it shouldn't be done. There was a medical reason for the decision but you can't get that through your thick skull. Too bad there is no room in there for a brain transplant. You might have to call Sebelius about that one too...
Posted - 6/15/2013 11:54:57 PM | show profile | flag this post
...bozosity rating is quite high. At times I think he's just clowning around.
Posted - 6/16/2013 8:34:48 AM | show profile | flag this post
Many of you have correctly pointed out this was a medical decision made by a panel of healthcare professionals and not some non-medical government panel making medical decisions. I applaud you for recognizing the folly in non-medical people making these kind of decisions and hope you remember that the next time someone brings up a socialized medical system as some kind of system we need to emulate.