|Back to Home > Bulletin Board > Current Events > Topic: Thank God Canada has gun laws.|
Thank God Canada has gun laws.
Posted - 4/5/2013 5:06:15 PM | show profile | flag this post
"Gatineau daycare evacuated, two adults dead.
GATINEAU, QUE.—Two men are dead in a shooting in a daycare crowded with dozens of children.
Gatineau police reported that all the children — 48 toddlers and five babies — were unharmed after the mid-morning scare at the Montessori daycare on Gamelin St.
Police responding to a 911 call of an armed man threatening the daycare found a body lying on the floor of the daycare with a hunting rifle beside him. Officers suspect he was the gunman and died of a self-inflicted wound.
A second male was taken to hospital where he was pronounced dead."
Why only two?
All the shooter had .. all he could get his hands on ... was a shotgun. A weapons that is actually used for legal hunting.
A weapon, that at one time had to be registered; Its purchase and ownership a matter of law enforcement record.
If this was the US, with easy, unrestricted and untracable access to assualt rifles, extended clips, spraying rooms with cop killer ammo .. we'd be burying dozens of preschoolers.
Posted - 4/5/2013 5:16:32 PM | show profile | flag this post
Nice try, but as usual
You failed. This was a domestic dispute not some crazed gunman out to shoot as many people as possible. No connection to any gun laws. I do wonder about the "hunting rifle", any details as to make and model would be interesting to know.
Posted - 4/5/2013 7:43:31 PM | show profile | flag this post
thank god for canada. what would we do without our red headed stepchild?
Posted - 4/5/2013 7:51:42 PM | show profile | flag this post
Local media report it was a hunting shotgun.
Otherwise, I'd be happy to compare US and Canadian domestic disputes which involve violence and firearms.
But I can't because NRA lobbying has prevented American law enforcement from collecting data on the use of firearms in crimes, including domestic disputes, and has successfully pressured for the cancellation of funding for any public, and even academic, studies on the impact of firearms.
But the most recent study i could find (from academics, with old data) is that, in the US, in Spousal homicides, more than two-thirds of the spouse or ex-spouse victims were killed by firearms.
In Canada 40% of spousal homicides involves firearms.
So that's more than a 20%difference between the countries.
Canada has breakdowns (we have laws mandating and standardizing crime data). of those spousal homicides incolving firearms: 71% involved hunting rifles and shotguns (single shot), 24% involved a handgun, 4% involved the use of a sawed-off rifle/shotgun, and 1% involved other types of firearms (ie assault type, or uncommon weapons).
I couldn't find US breakdowns on types of firearms used in domestic homicides, but overall in the US handguns account for some 80% homicides.
Too bad Americans can't get better data. Maybe, it would be useful to law enforcement and policy makers. What weapons are used? In what crimes?
I wonder why not?
Maybe because we already know death, homicides and suicides involving firearms, per capita, on the US far, far, far outstrip other nations including Canada
Not, like 20%. But 5 and 10 times per capita.
It should be no surprise. Your country is flooded with non-hunting firearms ... Handguns and assault rifles etc.
Your own Brady campaign study (I know, a RINO), found in the US, incidences of family and intimate assaults the use of guns was 12 times more likely to result in death than assaults that did not involve a firearm. Compared to knives or other cutting instruments, the involvement of a gun increased the risk of death by 3 times and compared to other weapons and bodily force, risk of death increased 23 times if a gun was involved.
All your gun control talk is meaningless. You got too many firearms, period, to make a dent in the senseless and tragic slaughter.
More Americans killed by firearms since Newtown, than all of 9/11 (and in a few months, all of the us military losses in Iraq and Afghanistan).
Guns kill more Americans in a half a year, than all of al Qaeda and Taliban, ever.
I find it funny, blacked, that you get so angry at a Canadian, and rage against terrorism, when your own gun culture does more harm to America than anything other threat in the world.
Posted - 4/5/2013 8:05:06 PM | show profile | flag this post
A few corrections
First, I'm not angry at anyone, certainly not a fake Canadian. Or Brit, or whatever else you claim.
Second, your original point was that the strict Canadian gun laws prevented mass homicide, that without them "we'd be burying dozens of preschoolers". Only thing is based on the information within the article you mentioned that would have not been the case, this was a domestic dispute. So you failed in your original post and tried to cover it up with one of your "life's so much better in Canada" posts.
As someone else likes to say, FAIL.
Posted - 4/5/2013 9:47:14 PM | show profile | flag this post
You're right. My apologies.
He wasn't out to commit mass murder.
Just a murder suicide.
And he was able to do it more effectively, as a crime of passion, because he had a firearm.
More reason, up here, to pass even stronger gun laws.
The studies are clear: fewer guns = fewer deaths.
In countries around the world. Law enforcement and independent studies prove the effectiveness.
I guess America, or at least NRA America, is exceptional. Thier "facts" buck the trend and evidence of all other human civilizations and nations.
Unfortunately America's gun culture infects my country. The RCMP have long stated one of the biggest threats, criminal and personal safety, is the influx of illegal US firearms across the border
I know you couldn't care less about America's violent impact on your neighbours, Canada and Mexico (much less the rest of the world)
But sad to see the thousands of deaths of Americans since newtown mean so little.
Here's the running tally
Just another statistic, I guess.
Each number, meaningless.
I guess Canadians are stupid for treating this murder suicide as front page, lead story news.
After all: it's only two.
Not "mass murder".
Only those count.
Posted - 4/6/2013 10:38:52 AM | show profile | flag this post
Your contention that firearms-related homicide in the United States is not tracked is incorrect.
You probably knew this when you posted, eh?
Posted - 4/6/2013 12:27:49 PM | show profile | flag this post
It is called "credibility"
Starting a thread based on a false premise results in zero credibility. And without credibility you have nothing.
Posted - 4/6/2013 12:34:06 PM | show profile | flag this post
The point is...
Canada has strict gun laws. They also have nowhere near the problem we do with gun related homicides. It's hard to say what would have happened in this case if the shooter had a semi-automatic weapon with a large clip. But the facts are irrefutable. Canada is a safer place with tougher gun laws.
Posted - 4/6/2013 12:57:12 PM | show profile | flag this post
The "point" was made real clear, that without Canada's strict gun laws "we'd be burying dozens of preschoolers". Only thing is it was a domestic shooting, and no children were ever the target. Cdnreprtr knew that but tried to claim that only thanks to Canada's strict gun laws more would have died.
And of course there is also the fact that this happened in Canada despite the stricter gun laws, a point totally missed by you and the original poster. So that means all those people who claim that stricter gun laws will not stop people who really want to shoot someone are correct. Opps, bet you did not see that one.
Posted - 4/6/2013 2:03:49 PM | show profile | flag this post
Disingenuous back at you blacked...
"And of course there is also the fact that this happened in Canada despite the stricter gun laws, a point totally missed by you and the original poster. So that means all those people who claim that stricter gun laws will not stop people who really want to shoot someone are correct. Opps, bet you did not see that one."
as a fact, Canadian firearms homicides, suicides, manslaughters; the use of firearms in robberies and other crimes ... PER CAPITA .. is 3 to 5 times less than the US.
do gun crimes and homicides happen in canada?
Do they happen much, much ,much less often, and with fewer casualties and fatalities than the US?
Are stricter gun laws responsible for those statistics?
The RCMP, Canadian Justice, and independent peer studies, unequivocally say yes.
you saw that coming.
But you have no argument against it. the data is clear, and unambiguous.
Gun control works. In every every jurisdiction where is has been legislated and enforced, it works.
In Austria, and Australia, to Germany, to the UK, etc, etc, etc.
if you don't have access to guns, you don't use them. if you don't have access to more lethal weapons, the crime is less lethal.
You should have quit while you were ahead. You had an argument when I smarmily shot my mouth off on this shooters intent.
if you actually put as much effort into searching for a solution to gun violence, instead of denying the problem, you might even build the credibility on the issue that I so obviously lack .
Id like that.
After all, I live in a country, with laws, where I don't worry about gun violence; i only have to worry about your gun problem, and massive irresponsibility, threatening that safety.
Posted - 4/6/2013 2:38:35 PM | show profile | flag this post
Oh, and GD..
"The report by Mayors Against Illegal Guns, which has 800 members across the country, calls for removing federal restrictions on firearms research by the Centers for Disease Control and the National Institutes of Health, and undoing a ban that prohibits law enforcement from publicly releasing information on the history of guns used in crimes.
(It) assails the National Rifle Association for what the mayors call a systematic attempt to restrict access to firearms data and research by the public, government, and law enforcement."
So, data collected that can't be access by he public, governed,nt or law enforcement.
"Starting in 1996, the NRA also successfully backed a freeze on U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention funding for research that might have suggested ways to prevent gun killings, said Mark Rosenberg, former head of the CDC’s National Center for Injury Prevention and Control. There were 31,700 gun deaths in 2011, the most recent data available.
The freeze followed the New England Journal of Medicine’s publication of a CDC-funded study that showed guns kept in the home increased the risk of homicide.
In 2011, Congress expanded the research restrictions to the U.S. Health and Human Services Department after lobbying by the NRA. The National Institutes of Health, which falls under the department, funded a study in 2009 that found a person carrying a gun was four-and-a-half times more likely to be shot than an unarmed person."
And successful lobbying to cancel and funding for research.
And then there is a concerted NRA campaign to even restrict and eliminate the collection of firearms data .. Or tie funding of interstate law enforcement sharing with NRA "gun restoration" programs ...
US firearms and crime data collection is functionally useless in practice; an embarrassment compared to other countries standards.
But y'all probably knew this when you posted?
Posted - 4/6/2013 2:42:20 PM | show profile | flag this post
Perhaps someone should have told
The victim here that living in Canada meant he did not have to worry about gun violence. Of course this could mean that even the strictest gun laws do not totally prevent gun violence. But that can't be the case now can it?
No credibility, no logic, and just plain wrong. Time for you to switch to another country. Maybe it's time to become "Aussiehack" or "Outbackreprtr". You seem to like to claim to be a subject of the Queen.
Posted - 4/6/2013 3:30:15 PM | show profile | flag this post
No, he didn't have to worry about gun violence.
"The rate of firearm-related homicides in Canada reached its lowest point in almost 50 years last year, according to new data.
In fact, of the 598 homicides reported in Canada in 2011, 35 per cent were stabbing-related, while 27 per cent were shooting-related, Statistics Canada reported Tuesday. Beatings and strangulations accounted for most of the remaining cases."
knives kill more canadians than guns.
Gun control works.
Why? knives are not as lethal as bullets. That is simple, medical fact.
(thankfully we also have universal medical care, no cost, to treat victims.)
This shooting happened in gatineau. it is a suburb were murder, firearms or other, are rare.
but lets compare, oranges to oranges:
Montreal, the largest nearby city (1.6 million people, and third largest in canada) had 35 murders in 2012. i dont have the time to look for firearms breakdown,but the national stats would put that at 7 or 8 gun murders.
The nearest US cities, in size, are Philly and Pheonix.
Philly (1.53 million pop.) had 324 murders in 2012. 75 percent of women killed in 2012 were shot to death; 86 percent of men killed were shot to death. (http://www.philly.com/philly/blogs/dncrime/Murder-by-Numbers-Homicide-in-2012.html)
Pheonix (1.46 million pop) reported 106 homicides in 2012 (http://phoenix.gov/webcms/groups/internet/@inter/@dept/@police/documents/web_content/094329.pdf) Im not even going to bother searching for firearms breaks downs, given Arizona lax gun laws. .
Still want to argue Canada isn't significantly, unequivocally, safer?
That gun violence is indisputably lower, per capita, and in fact?
Still want to argue gun violence is as much a problem in canada as the US?
if you do, well, no wonder america is so dysfunctional and in trouble.
Y'all cant even recognize a problem much, in some unlikely bipartisan or patriotic miracle, less solve it.
I sleep at night just fine. Me, mine, and children are safe. Without guns. That is proven fact. that is daily reality.
it makes me wonder:
How do you sleep at night?
Posted - 4/6/2013 4:05:58 PM | show profile | flag this post
I have to admit,,
You have a great ability to change my words so you can claim you are correct. No where did I say that Canada was not safer or that the number of gun homicides were less. Nope, never said that. What I said was that even with the stricter gun laws CANADIAN PEOPLE STILL DIE FROM GUNS. Period. Not comparing the two countries, just saying that no amount of gun control laws will completely stop people from killing each other. I cannot say that any clearer.
Posted - 4/6/2013 5:23:20 PM | show profile | flag this post
A tragedy is a tragedy
But since this was apparently a murder-suicide, done with a hunting weapon no less, I don't see how this is relevant to current gun control debates in the US.
Even I have said repeatedly I have no problem with hunting rifles, and there's very little we can do about someone losing their temper. If someone has a record of abuse, domestic or otherwise, and law enforcement drops the ball, that's another problem--but Canada/US rates don't apply here.
Posted - 4/6/2013 7:45:47 PM | show profile | flag this post
I absolutely agree.
because what the rest of the world considers the baseline of gun violence data in america, the failure of simple statistics, would be unacceptable in the rest of the world.
and the actual lives lost, deaths, murders, suicides, by firearms in the rest of the civilized world would be unacceptable.
yet you claim to be world leaders.
and you wonder why America is failing.
Posted - 4/6/2013 8:56:07 PM | show profile | flag this post
Oh, brother. Why don't you just state your hatred of the United States and get it over with? Why waste posters' time in alleged discussions that you really aren't interested in having?
FWIW, no Canadian is obsessed with U.S. government as you are. Real Canadians have their own government and their own social problems to worry about.
Posted - 4/6/2013 9:33:45 PM | show profile | flag this post
.. Actually a lot of Canadians, including our RCMP, customs agents and federal government are trying to figure how to mitigate your irresponsible gun laws and culture from impacting our safety.
It is, in fact, a national, cross border, law enforcement, priority.
American lax gun laws are, simply, considered a national threat here.
Posted - 4/6/2013 10:09:57 PM | show profile | flag this post
CANADIANS STILL DIE FROM GUNS.
No arguement. But if you can't tell the difference that 3x or 10x more Americans die from guns than Canadians ... And you don't think that is significant, or that doesn't materially matters.
You're an idiot.
That doesn't reflect on my nationality or any partisan politics.
It is simple common sense and reason. And basic humanity.
If US cancer death rates were 10x that of the rest of the industrialized world, and we knew the reason, we wouldn't have this debate.
But we know, exactly, why Americans homicides are 10x that of other nations.. And it is guns..
Posted - 4/7/2013 12:17:52 PM | show profile | flag this post
Cdn, I really have to hand it to you...
You change my words to suit you at will, then you can call me wrong. Add that to all your fake identity and creating an entire thread based on a totally false premise and you take the prize here. Congratulations, it takes a lot to outdo cruiser, con and livinliberal.
Let me summarize my points which you keep misstating. First, this was not a mass murderer foiled by strict Canadian gun laws. Second, this person managed to kill someone with a gun despite those strict Canadian gun laws. Third, this is a great example of the fact that no amount of gun laws, no matter how restrictive, will completely stop gun violence. Gun laws of and by themselves do not make for a safe society. That is all I wanted to say.
Posted - 4/7/2013 1:54:49 PM | show profile | flag this post
*** o GD...
.. Actually a lot of Canadians, including our RCMP, customs agents and federal government are trying to figure how to mitigate your irresponsible gun laws and culture from impacting our safety. ***
Ah. This explains why you start threads to bash the United States on the presidential election, the political process, Supreme Court cases, unemployment, the economy, health care and immigration, among myriad other topics.
Posted - 4/7/2013 4:48:28 PM | show profile | flag this post
That is your argument?
It is like saying well never cure cancer, so why bother with chemotherapy.
Gun control laws work. Proven. Period.
So lets not have any, let's not have fewer deaths, because people will still shoot each other?
Yeah. You got me.
I don't care about America. But your nation's irresponsibility .. From Iraq, to the financial collapse, to guns .. And your political and partisan policies so far outside the international norm ... Impacts my country.
Yeah . It is my business.
It seems I'm the only one on this board that is pissed off America can't put its partisan stupidity behind, get its act together, and join the rest of the civilized world.
Folks : y'all just don't get it.
Your not leading. You're way behind everyone's else , causing more problems than good.
And you're clueless to it. Everyone else knows. And frankly, the world patience is pretty much gone.
Case in point: Guns ..
Posted - 4/7/2013 6:27:18 PM | show profile | flag this post
Not an argument
Just a point. Learn the difference then you could actually participate in a discussion, a totally foreign concept to you.
Posted - 4/7/2013 7:01:44 PM | show profile | flag this post
Spend more time actually...
.. Recognizing the substantive issues that matter, and not trying to win a minor point, and you may actually have a discussion.
I conceded the immaterial point about the Canadian shooters motive.
You're still too stubborn to admit, or willfully ignorant, to the overwhelming fact of American gun violence and the undisputed fact that gun control works around the world.
Can't see the forest for the trees.
You're right. There is no discussion.
You're not even in the same rational room as the rest of the world.
Some Americans actually think more guns are the solution.