|Back to Home > Bulletin Board > Current Events > Topic: The Immigration Debate|
The Immigration Debate
Posted - 6/14/2013 2:29:18 PM | show profile | flag this post
There are other things going on besides the current 'scandals'...Syria is one of course, but the Immigration Debate has turned into theatre rivaling Repubs arguing amongst themselves over Snowden.
"In the first and only vote Thursday on the immigration bill, senators turned back a Republican measure that would have delayed a path to citizenship for those in the country illegally until after the border with Mexico is fully secure." In other words, we'll deal with the immigrants once the door behind them is sealed shut. This like telling my great-grandparents they'll become citizens once they shut down Ellis Island.
Poor Marco was reduced to using the argument that we need to legalize the illegals so they can pay for the fence behind them. Huh? We're THAT broke?
Some moderate Repubs are still pushing for reform: Mr. Bush said he agreed with the 13-year pathway to citizenship in the Senate bill, which includes requirements to learn English and to pay back taxes and fines, saying it “reaches the proper balance” between the rule of law and the nation’s immigrant heritage"
But Jeb also made the weird argument ""Immigrants create far more businesses than native-born Americans,” Bush said in remarks to the Faith and Freedom Coalition in Washington D.C. “Immigrants are more fertile, and they love families, and they have more intact families, and they bring a younger population. Immigrants create an engine of economic prosperity."
More fertile?? You're going to hear that one a lot today. He's right actually, it just sounds strangely insulting.
Lastly, maybe this says it all: "That’s been born out in poll after poll, but a new number from Gallup shows that Americans currently have the least faith in Congress of any of the major institutions they’ve polled. Ever.
That means that – since Gallup started the poll in 1973 – no institution from a list of 16 has been trusted less than Congress is now, including: big business, the medical system, newspapers, television news, HMOs and banks.
The Gallup poll shows that just 10 percent of Americans say they have “a great deal” or “quite a lot” of confidence in Congress"
And we're surprised by that...?
Posted - 6/14/2013 7:34:18 PM | show profile | flag this post
*** “Immigrants are more fertile, and they love families, and they have more intact families, and they bring a younger population. Immigrants create an engine of economic prosperity."
More fertile?? You're going to hear that one a lot today. ***
Give the boy a break -- he was probably just thinking about getting home to Columba.
Posted - 6/15/2013 12:04:04 AM | show profile | flag this post
Given Gallup's evaluation of Congress
...it's waaaaay past time to start sending some of the idiots who make Americans despise their Congress so much...packing.
Posted - 6/17/2013 4:58:46 PM | show profile | flag this post
No, Ellis Island was
a place of LEGAL immigration. There is no comparison.
We simply CANNOT give special accommodations to people whose VERY FIRST ACT is to break the law of the United States. That sets the wrong precedent.
Posted - 6/17/2013 5:49:10 PM | show profile | flag this post
Not exactly cruise
"Ellis Island was a place of LEGAL immigration." No..it was a processing center....
"Those with visible health problems or diseases were sent home or held in the island's hospital facilities for long periods of time. More than three thousand would-be immigrants died on Ellis Island while being held in the hospital." "Some unskilled workers were rejected because they were considered "likely to become a public charge". we have no idea were sent back because they were just 'undesirable'. (Wiki)
"We simply CANNOT give special accommodations to people..." Oh c'mon. Have you even READ the Gang of 8 proposal?? (See, CAPS don't always help)
"The bill would allow most of the nation's 11 million unauthorized immigrants to apply for U.S. citizenship within 13 years, add $6.5 billion to secure the nation's southwest border with Mexico, require all U.S. business owners to check the immigration status of hires and revamp the legal immigration system to bring in more high-tech and lower-skilled workers on short-term visas.
To qualify for citizenship, immigrants would be placed in temporary legal status for at least 10 years, pass a criminal background check, learn English, pay taxes, fees and at least $2,000 in fines" (USAToday)
Those are 'special accomodations' in your mind?? Hell, all my great-grandparents had to do was be measle-free, and have between $18 and $25 in their pocket. But then...they weren't Mexican.
Posted - 6/17/2013 6:15:08 PM | show profile | flag this post
Like I said
Ellis Island (the processing center) was a place of LEGAL immigration. The sick, the destitute and...probably...the undesirable were sent back.
Despite your attempt to make yourself appear to be disagreeing with me, all you're doing is confirming what I posted.
Posted - 6/17/2013 6:49:01 PM | show profile | flag this post
"To qualify for citizenship, immigrants would be placed in temporary legal status for at least 10 years, pass a criminal background check, learn English, pay taxes, fees and at least $2,000 in fines" (USAToday)"
there is enough exemptions, ifs, ands, or buts that will insure that none of the above will take place.
this bill will turn into nothing but a amnesty bill that will cost american taxes payers.
if republicans pass this bill, they get what they deserve. which is to lose congress and never when another national election.
Posted - 6/17/2013 8:31:24 PM | show profile | flag this post
con? At least cruise has a point
You're just babbling.
"there is enough exemptions [sic]" Really?? "none of the above will take place" You know that for a fact...how??
"if republicans pass this bill, they get what they deserve. which is to lose congress and never when another national election". I hate it when my side doesn't when an election...
But besides the Palin-like grammar vomit, I've heard the same sentiment from everyone from Sen Graham and most vocally, Bachmann. (Paraphrasing) 'If we pass immigration reform, we can kiss the WH good-bye for years...'
So that's the criteria??? Screw the eleven million people here (many working their butts off just to support their families), we can't do anything--anything--to reform the system--EVEN though both sides of the aisle agree the system needs to be reformed--because it may cost us another election??? And does anyone wonder why the Congress has a 10% approval rating?!?!?
Posted - 6/17/2013 8:49:36 PM | show profile | flag this post
Look...we just cannot be the nanny to the world
There are millions in Africa unemployed, starving, etc., and I don't hear any serious proposals to bring them all here (although Odumbo a few days ago said something about bring 5,000 Syrian refugees here).
It's a shame but like the Africans, we cannot be expected to feed the 90-95 percent of Mexican mestizos who are poor or destitute. It's up to them with their superior numbers to assert their rights over that 5-10 percent of pure Spanish descent who own or control 95 percent of the country's land and resources.
Either that or we occupy Mexico and establish equitable distributions so we never again have to confront millions of illegals. That, of course, will never fly with the left wing...but they do expect us to feed, clothe, educate and employ those millions from OUR OWN resources.
I guess "fairness" to left wingers depends on which end of the teeter-totter you're on.
Posted - 6/17/2013 8:56:30 PM | show profile | flag this post
There are people here legally who applied for citizenship more than 20 years ago and are still waiting.
Immigration reform is for them, too.
Posted - 6/17/2013 11:21:27 PM | show profile | flag this post
Just one of those issues
We're not going to see eye to eye on. "Nanny to the World"? Seriously? Puts a whole new sneering spit in yer face spin on that "Give me your tired, your poor, Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free" rhetoric don't it.
"There are millions in Africa unemployed, starving, etc.," Yea, f*ck them. They're only around so Mom can tell you to eat your veggies. "Odumbo a few days ago said something about bring 5,000 Syrian refugees here". Well, he's African, what did you expect?
You can't even read your own bullshit propoganda right...(Yea, that Brietbart) reported that was Germany--Not "Obumba". (" It should be noted that Congress resisted accepting Iraqi refugees in 2003 following the U.S.-led invasion of Iraq. Between 1983 and 2009, the U.S. resettled a total of 76,205 Iraqis." We invade their country, and they have the nerve to think they can come here...
If you honestly don't thnk Immigration Reform is a Moral thing; God help you if God's not a WASP. Obama has phramed this is clear, albeit moral and historic terms; "See, we define ourselves as a nation of immigrants....In the end, that’s what this is all about. Men and women who want nothing more than the chance to earn their way into the American story, just like so many of our ancestors did. Throughout our history, that has only made us stronger."
Catholic, Evangelical, and Jewish ministers have all preached from the pulpit this IS a moral obligation.
Evangelicals Cast Immigration Reform as Moral Mandate: http://www.seattleweekly.com/home/946497-129/immigration-reform-castleberry-church-says-fuiten
(My favorite, Bishop Dennis Sullivan) "Sisters and brothers, what I say is not new: The system is broken, "But now, ahora, we have an opportunity to fix it. And we accept that opportunity as our Christ-given mission so that the Kingdom of God can be strengthened and extended, especially among our immigrant sisters and brothers."
God, Sullivan said, "teaches us to welcome the strangers, to care for the least among us." "We are keepers of our sisters and brothers," he said. "We pray, we beg that this message is heard outside these doors."
"I guess "fairness" to left wingers depends on which end of the teeter-totter you're on." No. No, it doesn't. Fair is fair, and morality is morality.
Posted - 6/17/2013 11:54:33 PM | show profile | flag this post
"Fair is fair, and morality is morality"
That's right but you don't get to call the shots because your definitions are neither.
We should not be setting our immigration policy according to what foreigners want. We need to set it according to the best interests of this country and its citizens.
Every country on Earth has the opportunity to do what the United States did 230 years ago...and they have a sterling model to emulate.
Posted - 6/18/2013 12:06:15 AM | show profile | flag this post
Some middle ground
"We should not be setting our immigration policy according to what foreigners want. We need to set it according to the best interests of this country and its citizens."
We agree. Which is why sensible conservatives/libs, Dem/Repubs, are trying their level best to hammer out some sort of compromise. The economic benefits to immigration reform are as staggering as they are evident. Even those bi-partisan congressmen came up with rules and regulations far far far stronger than anything our ancestors had to deal with. Well, that's political reality....I can live with that...and so can the immigrants who have been living and working here for years.
"Every country on Earth has the opportunity to do what the United States did 230 years ago..." Yea. Cross the border without permission and kick out the original residents. Unless your [real] name is "cruise dancing with wolves", you're a product of immigrants the same as I am.
Posted - 6/18/2013 10:30:46 AM | show profile | flag this post
"there is enough exemptions [sic]" Really?? "none of the above will take place" You know that for a fact...how??"
by learning what is in the bill. you should do the same before blinding supporting something you know so little about.
speaking of grammar vomit-
" I hate it when my side doesn't when an election..."
"Screw the eleven million people here"
what about the poor? the middle class? hard working taxpayers?
screw them ? that is exactly what this amnesty bill will do.
Posted - 6/18/2013 11:40:26 AM | show profile | flag this post
"immigrants who have been living and working here for years"
That's no justification. Their initial act was to break the law of the US.
Do you really want to excuse the BTK killer because he led a model life for decades after he murdered people? Or should he pay for his crimes?
Posted - 6/18/2013 12:27:55 PM | show profile | flag this post
Immigration reform is not only about illegal immigration
Just a PSA for the hard-of-reading.
Posted - 6/18/2013 1:03:30 PM | show profile | flag this post
Okay, we got it.
"That's no justification. Their initial act was to break the law of the US."
You would propably proudly still hunt down Jean Valjean and his loaf of bread (and bag of Skittles and ice tea) till the end of time because he broke the law....
No room for the 'Bigger Picture' here?? Even die-hard conservatives, and hundreds of studies admit that the contributions of illegals FAR out-weigh the costs. "the belief that illegal migrants are exploiting the US economy and that they cost more in services than they contribute to the economy is "undeniably false". They pay more in taxes than many rich people do. "filling of millions of essential worker positions resulting in subsidiary job creation, increased productivity and lower costs of goods and services; and unrequited contributions to Social Security, Medicare and unemployment insurance programs." (Wiki)
That's the balance sheet part. As for the 'fairness part'; I remembered this explanation from Marco Rubio himself no less; "I’m always trying to remind my colleagues that if they lived in Mexico or anywhere in Latin America and their kids were hungry—every night went to sleep hungry—and your country provided no opportunity for you to feed them, you’re telling me that there’s nothing you wouldn’t do to feed them? You’re telling me you wouldn’t go anywhere there was a job so you could send money to them?
I think the vast majority of people who enter this country illegally and legally do so because they’re looking for a better life, more opportunity for their kids. And I think we need to recognize that. I think we need to understand that many of them are doing what many of us would do if we were in the same position. That doesn’t excuse it. That doesn’t mean you legalize it. That doesn’t mean you overlook it, but I do think it puts a human element to it."
It appears to me cruise that you lack that 'human element' that Rubio was talking about.
Posted - 6/18/2013 1:42:54 PM | show profile | flag this post
That's a cheap shot (typical of you) and
the kind of ad hominem to which you left wingers always resort when you don't want to confront the facts.
And you need to broaden your horizons and look at California before you continue your ill-advised PR campaign about how much illegals "contribute" to the economy.
Posted - 6/18/2013 3:00:27 PM | show profile | flag this post
"confront the facts" Right.
This is another one of those topics where the vast majority of every expert out there says one thing--and you say they're wrong. The vast majority of every study out ther says illegal immigrants contribute to the economy--and you say you're right, and they're wrong.
Google "illegals contribute to the economy" if you have to. you'll find material like this: "Undocumented immigrants contribute to our economy as workers, taxpayers, and consumers. They account for 5 percent of the total U.S. labor force, and at least a quarter of the workers in industries like construction, agriculture, groundskeeping, meat processing, and textile production.
All undocumented immigrants pay sales and property taxes, and—contrary to popular belief—most pay federal and state income taxes as well, even though they're not eligible for Social Security, Medicare, or the many other programs their tax dollars help fund. Undocumented immigrants also spend billions of dollars each year, which supports our economy and helps create new jobs."
Those are facts. What you cited was a 9yr old OPINION piece--dealing with one state, not the country as a whole--from FAIR; a "Know-Nothing" like anti immigrant hate group. This is like using the KKK official website to 'prove' that Americans hate that guy in the WH.
"broaden your horizons" indeed.
Posted - 6/18/2013 4:03:01 PM | show profile | flag this post
There's no sense in me continuing this
You've got your fingers in your ears and your eyes shut tight.
Posted - 6/18/2013 5:06:11 PM | show profile | flag this post
there was never any sense in you STARTING this..
so why should anyone care when you end it?..
the only thing you've proven in all of this is that you have a world view that few, if any share..
enjoy your solitude..
Posted - 6/18/2013 9:33:36 PM | show profile | flag this post
"This like telling my great-grandparents they'll become citizens once they shut down Ellis Island." Please, equating the situation we have with illegal aliens to Ellis Island in any way...even for the purpose of illustration...is asinine. Shutting and sealing the border IS necessary before anything else happens. Besides, there's something I seem to recall put down by our founding fathers about the government ensuring our borders are protected. Sure would be nice if one of these days that was actually done.
But then the left wing wants open borders...to gather more votes from those who want free stuff.
Posted - 6/18/2013 9:36:42 PM | show profile | flag this post
...of white folks acting like their perspective is the only one that matters just kinda rubs me the wrong way. It also reminds me of this.
Posted - 6/18/2013 9:37:18 PM | show profile | flag this post
Posted - 6/18/2013 9:38:04 PM | show profile | flag this post