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The POTUS on Gun Control
Posted - 1/16/2013 11:12:05 PM | show profile | flag this post
I admit we'll propably hear the usual expected responses--but like him, love him, or hate him, it was a helluva speech.
"While there is no law or set of laws that can prevent every senseless act of violence completely, no piece of legislation that will prevent every tragedy, every act of evil," ..."if there's even one thing we can do to reduce this violence, if there's even one life that can be saved, then we've got an obligation to try it."
Some of the main legislative proposals backed by Obama and Vice President Joe Biden are:
•requiring criminal background checks on all gun sales, including private sales
•banning "military-style" assault weapons
•limiting ammunition magazines to 10 rounds
•strengthening penalties for gun trafficking
"The president also signed a series of 23 executive actions - free from a Congressional blockade -- intended to strengthen existing laws, augment mental health measures and promote federal research on gun crime through the Centers for Disease Control"
I'M SURE that's going to be the rub. Even stopbs' favorite Sen rubio jumped into it: "Republicans immediately and predictably went off the rails as soon as the president mentioned executive action and guns. Rep. Paul Broun said, “There is a tremendous potential for a horrendous public backlash against the president if he continues the policies that he has been doing of trying to go around Congress, create law and be a dictator like he’s been doing.”
Sen. Marco Rubio (R-FL) accused the president of abusing his power, “Making matters worse is that President Obama is again abusing his power by imposing his policies via executive fiat instead of allowing them to be debated in Congress. President Obama’s frustration with our republic and the way it works doesn’t give him license to ignore the Constitution.”
Rep. Darrell Issa said, “The president’s imperial behavior and his abuse of power didn’t begin with the Second Amendment. He did it with immigration. He’s certainly done it with the Obamacare. So, once again, it’s a president exceeding his intended authority.”
BUT--Oops. "A funny thing happened on the way to Obama is dictator who is taking away all of guns Republican Memeville. New York Magazine crunched the numbers of presidential executive orders and concluded that this president has issued the fewest executive orders of any president over the last 100 years. Every Republican president signed more executive orders than Barack Obama has. On an order per day basis, Obama has issued fewer EOs than every single Republican president over the past century."
This may be uglier than ObamaCare (and Lord knows that was fun) But I distinctly remember the SCOTUS Heller Decision/DC Gun laws: “Like most rights,” Justice Antonin Scalia wrote for the majority, “the right secured by the Second Amendment is not unlimited.”
We shall see and hear more in the coming days. Opinions??
Posted - 1/17/2013 9:29:51 AM | show profile | flag this post
Looking at how the GOP and NRA reacted...
I'd say there's a point to be made for mental health checks before you're allowed to own a gun.
Posted - 1/17/2013 12:44:27 PM | show profile | flag this post
It was heartening yesterday to hear some outlets explain that the president did NOT overstep the powers of the office by issuing executive orders and new addition to the orders yesterday was the research on gun crime.
I'm astounded at how many politicians object to research as if it's poison. They seem to think (or appear to want their constituents to think) it's impossible to tell good research from bad. Equally astounding is their failure to drop the partisan games and get it through their thick skulls that we have a problem to solve like adults. These guys are as screwy as the people who are torqued because they believe Obama banned assault weapons yesterday.
Posted - 1/17/2013 12:53:25 PM | show profile | flag this post
The reactions have been bizarre
*The president noted even Reagan was for gun control. Andrea Mitchell had Erich Pratt of Gun Owners of America, who suggested that Reagan only supported greater restrictions LATER in life because he was senile and well, was SHOT.
*Marco Rubio goes on Fox&Friends (a bastion of truth telling) to complain that nothing Obama proposed would have prevented Sandy Hook (despite the assault weapon, the high mag clip, a mental patient with access to guns etc etc)
*Rush makes 'baby crying sounds' mocking Obama's address. Several wingnut commentators compare the whole speech to Saddam using 'kids as human shields'
*A variety of Repubs are still calling Obama a Dictator for issuing Exec Orders and are screaming Impeachment.
*My favorite though may be our old friend Rick Perry ("Rick Perry Says Obama’s Actions On Gun Control ‘Disgust’ Him, Claims Prayer Is The Answer") That worked out so well when they prayed for an ened to the drought.
Seriously folks--JUST like ObamaCare, Just like the Budget Debate, Just like the Debt Ceiling, the The American People are behind the president on this one. Are you people still confused why Obama won andthe GOP lost??
Posted - 1/17/2013 3:46:16 PM | show profile | flag this post
What's going on politically..
with the Obama administration's gun effort is, again, chess while the GOP plays checkers.
The NRA/GOP reaction to Obama's gun agenda has been fairly predictable -- but it's played even better into Obama's hands than the "war on women" gaffes of the GOP last year.
I don't think anyone expected the NRA/GOP reaction to be so off the wall.
For Obama, this is a multi-layered strategy. It's about 1) guns and 2) so much more in the debt limit fight and 3) the 2014 Congressional races.
1) GUNS: Obama knows none of his legislative plans has a chance in Congress. The Republican majority in the House will kill all on the plans. But he knows he can make a real difference with the executive actions.
Obama did not propose a single item that did not have a plurality of support from voters.
His executive actions are wildly popular with voters.
By opposing these actions, the GOP makes itself look out of touch with voters -- a narrative we've seen carry over from the "war on women" fight.
And by going off the deep end with talk of impeachment and talk of Sandy Hook conspiracies and over the top NRA ads, it only makes the GOP look more unhinged and out of step -- just like "legitimate rape" and similar gaffes hurt the GOP last year.
Meanwhile, with popular ideas in place -- largely on the executive orders -- Obama comes across as sane and reasonable, even moderate, to the great majority of voters.
This builds on his narrative that his policies are better suited for the country.
Which brings us to...
2) DEBT LIMIT: Coming off the gun fight, the GOP will be further painted as extreme and inflexible. This will carry over into a fight in which the GOP is already reaping the vast majority of the blame for the budget crisis.
The earlier fight just fuels the narrative that the GOP is out of touch and extreme to the point of crashing the economy to advance a philosophical point.
Which leads us to...
3) 2014 ELECTIONS: These should allow the GOP to rebuild a larger House majority. The party in the White House almost always loses seats in off-year elections and the GOP GOTV effort is better geared for off-year elections.
With the gun, fiscal cliff and debt ceiling battles shaping public opinion, the "GOP is Crazy Extreme" narrative should be solid in another year. That's just in time for the start of the campaigns.
Couple that with Obama's database finally released for other Democrats to use, and Republicans are up against pretty powerful forces in 2014.
The Democrats don't expect to win the House -- but in the current position, they are extremely likely to blunt any serious gains for the GOP.
Posted - 1/17/2013 4:57:21 PM | show profile | flag this post
etaoin; Couldn't agree more
But I think it's worse than that. The hell with Chess--that's over the GOP Leadership paygrade--these guys are bringing marbles to a knife fight.
The NRA actually thinks being more belligerant, more stubborn, more hateful--they think that's a winning strategy?? As you pointed out; the GOP tried that in the Presidential, and Gee. What could go wrong.
Of course the president is going to 'win' this fight. A series of mass shootings, be it a movie theatre or even one involving a US Congresswoman--well that's one thing. But when you blow away 20 kids, people are going to wake up and say enough is enough.
If I was advising the WH at this point I would tell them to send Jon Stewarts last commentary to each and every supporter. YOU watch it--and tell me it just doesn't piss you off.
In that same vein--and at the same time--Re: the Debt Limit--the president stands up says [politely] to congress, you clowns voted for all this spent money--now pay for it.
I'ts been a long time since a President had this much 'capital' to spend. No, I don't see (right now) the GOP losing the House in 2014. But if they overwhelmingly and loudly turn down Gun Control PLUS bring the US to a possible gov shutdown over the Debt Ceiling ?? Yea. I can see the GOP being almost nothing more than a shrill voice with no leverage.
Posted - 1/17/2013 5:55:40 PM | show profile | flag this post
you'd think the republicans would study california..
where they have been reduced to afterthoughts, if even that, in both houses of the legislature..
it wasn't all good democrat candidates..the GOP did a marvelous job of stomping on their own feet with baseball spikes..now they're irrelevant..
Posted - 1/17/2013 7:51:30 PM | show profile | flag this post
With near solid opposition by GOP senators
and many Democrats backing away, it looks like new efforts at gun control are non-starters in the senate. And with Republicans in control of the house the chances of a renewal of Feinstein's 1994 law banning rifles that resemble military hardware is all but DOA.
And this is not an area in which the president can legislate by executive order...although I wouldn't put it past him to try.
Posted - 1/17/2013 8:22:39 PM | show profile | flag this post
Thanks for the reminder orthicon
Of what the country would look like with democrats completely in charge😎
Posted - 1/17/2013 8:45:53 PM | show profile | flag this post
"legislate by executive order"
When democrats do that it is IMPEACHABLE!
When Republicans do it, I tingle.
Posted - 1/17/2013 11:50:03 PM | show profile | flag this post
As a resident of California
I have to say, it's not so bad with the Democrats firmly in control now. Without the Republicans acting as obstructionists purely because they can--we can't raise taxes without a 2/3 majority vote, which the D's now have--California is on our way to erasing the horrendous budget deficit we spent ourselves into, via the initiative process.
In the most recent election--the one that turned absolute control over to the Democrats--the people of the state voted to raise taxes on themselves by a considerable amount to fund the schools and a number of other crisis issues, including adding to the General Fund.
California ain't doing so bad. Don't judge. You have no idea what's going on here.
Posted - 1/18/2013 12:25:59 AM | show profile | flag this post
yeah, we ARE doing pretty well..
which makes the republicans even more weepy..they thought the democrats would already have the state destroyed..
not yet.. and not likely..
Posted - 1/18/2013 12:35:35 AM | show profile | flag this post
I don't "know" California"
Don't live there, don't 'follow' it, so commenting on that would be ignorant. I do follow the US Senate though...
IMO only; A real ban on assault weapons?? Zero to 10% chance.
Banning high mag clips?? 50-50. There's no Senator who wants to be seen on C-Span saying he needs 101 bullets to take down a buck.
The 'Better/more expanded background checks'?? THAT one is a winner. (again, just my opinion). It takes guns "away" from no one...but 'protects us from another nutcase gettin a gun!' You phrase it like that and it's going to pass. That also goes hand in hand with almost all better screening of the mentally ill....maybe even more money for the mentally ill...a win win.
Senate Hearings on all of this could start as early as two weeks from now. Which is totally contrary to what Yertle the Turtle McConnell was saying before ('Next few months will be about the budget and only the budget')...but then let's keep in mind he's the Minority Leader...and the hearings would propably be held by Pat Leahy--The Judiciary Comm Chairman--known for GREAT theatrical hearings. I wouldn't be surprised if he had both the NRA leadership and survivors of mass shootings testify...
As for some annoying noise re "this is not an area in which the president can legislate by executive order..." Quite true. And that's a bloody shame ain't it? The president can invade an entire friggin country for no good reason other than 'he feels like it'--killing thousands--but he can't issue an order to ban the selling of a machine gun along the Mexican border. Go figure.
Posted - 1/18/2013 10:17:15 AM | show profile | flag this post
Highest sales tax, highest personal income tax, second highest gas tax (4th highest per gallon price), 9th highest corporate income tax, 15th highest property tax, ranked worst state to conduct business by National Chamber of Commerce.
Yeah all that sounds like a democrats vision of heaven.
Posted - 1/18/2013 10:19:38 AM | show profile | flag this post
"turned absolute control over to the Democrats"
Therein lies the rub: It was Democrats who got the state into the fiscal mess with their largesse...much of it pandering to constituents on the lower end of the economic scale...and it's Democrats who will now ignore the massive debt...as they have been doing for years...and continue to spend all the new tax revenue to be derived from successful Californians.
Let's hope Jerry Brown has the stones to veto his party's profligate spending.
Posted - 1/18/2013 10:30:40 AM | show profile | flag this post
I would agree, mp....
with your line, "these guys are bringing marbles to a knife fight." But I'm pretty sure the GOP lost their marbles.
Posted - 1/18/2013 10:32:30 AM | show profile | flag this post
is on track to recovery now that GOP obstruction is out of the way, blackedtape.
All the points you made came from a GOP administration and Republican obstruction in the legislature.
Gov Jerry Brown has not only delivered a balanced budget -- but a plan to pay down the state's debt.
Posted - 1/19/2013 12:17:56 AM | show profile | flag this post
"And California is on track to recovery"
What are you smoking?
Posted - 1/19/2013 9:12:21 AM | show profile | flag this post
Two dollars of cuts for every dollar of new taxes, cut spending for the elderly and children, cut spending on education. Heck that's a democrat even a republican could like. Maybe the democrats in Washington should be paying attention.
Posted - 1/19/2013 10:31:33 AM | show profile | flag this post
Maybe BOTH parties in DC should take a look at Brown's cutting. Too bad the Governor doesn't have a "Pentagon" he could take a whack at.