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Back to Home > Bulletin Board > Current Events > Topic: The real story of income redistribution.

The real story of income redistribution.

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1–25 out of 25 messages

Author	Message

cdnreprtr	Posted - 3/4/2013 8:25:30 AM \| show profile \| flag this post watch it. http://mashable.com/2013/03/02/wealth-inequality/

Grateful Deadline	Posted - 3/4/2013 11:02:26 AM \| show profile \| flag this post No time.

VTexan	Posted - 3/4/2013 1:07:40 PM \| show profile \| flag this post This coming REALLY should be seen. Puts all the income re-distribution BS into proper context.

livinliberal	Posted - 3/4/2013 1:40:34 PM \| show profile \| flag this post Pretty eye opening... But we really need to give those "job creators" more money to give us all those jobs being sucked away by money we are giving to those leeches at the bottom of the economic ladder. It is disgusting how repubs will not even think of trying to raise taxes because they are pandering to their donors to give them even more influence and power. Our wealth distribution looks pretty similar to what I imagine it was in feudal times. Let's go back to Clinton and see how things were working with a more fair tax system and compare it to now when corporations are sitting on more cash than ever before. Where are all those jobs? The truth is, the "job creators" are the people in the middle and lower classes who spend their money on good which create a demand which pushes up production. It is basic economics, but the repubs will not buy into it because they are all about the rich, and screw everyone else. Until we get rid of Boner, Cantor and the rest of the radical right, we are all screwed.

etaoin shrdlu	Posted - 3/4/2013 1:47:48 PM \| show profile \| flag this post I saw it over the weekend... a very good example of using graphics to tell a story. And it demonstrates how the vast majority of us have no idea of how wealth is being concentrated in the hands of a relatively few people -- making it impossible to efficiently re-invest it into the economy.

blackedtaped	Posted - 3/4/2013 4:12:45 PM \| show profile \| flag this post Ok now fix it... I would welcome all of your honest suggestions on how to change this situation. You already know mine. Raise all incomes by putting people back to work. You accomplish that by creating a positive environment for employers.

mpdodgson	Posted - 3/4/2013 4:24:33 PM \| show profile \| flag this post Well that... and since everyones goal is 'putting people back to work'...passing an actual jobs bill or two instead of trying to repeal 'ObamaCare' for the 34th time...might be a good place to start.

newscred	Posted - 3/4/2013 4:48:54 PM \| show profile \| flag this post True, it would be nice if jobs were really in consideration. It would indeed be nice if workable job bills were passed that removed some of the federal anti-business regulations. But that of course won't happen. The democrats and Chairman Obama seem intent on creating a populace dependent on big government. A robust economy built on people working hard, building businesses, profiting and creating jobs isn't a good thing to extreme social advocates. That doesn't fit into their long range plans of a utopian world (just ask Ayn Rand).

mpdodgson	Posted - 3/4/2013 5:03:58 PM \| show profile \| flag this post And yet, they stil wonder Why we ridicule their Black Helicopter/Cpnspiracy 'round every corner paranoid way of life. "their long range plans of a utopian world". There's a memo I didn't get.

cruster	Posted - 3/4/2013 5:23:15 PM \| show profile \| flag this post The democrats and Chairman Obama Yes, they are the ones who did all this. Making people lazy by calling them on their free government cell phones and telling them where to go get hand outs. if we were all smart and hardworking, like newscred, we'd be rich, like newscred obviously is, since he has all day to post here under several names. But no, welfare queens steal everything from hard working industrious Ayn Rand loving Americans.

VTexan	Posted - 3/4/2013 9:22:10 PM \| show profile \| flag this post Which "...federal anti-business regulations" would you want removed newscred?

blackedtaped	Posted - 3/5/2013 2:09:48 PM \| show profile \| flag this post Wealth not income Funny how it seems some people do not understand the two are not the same thing. Wealth is accumulated over time and depends on the retaining of a portion of income. In other words, income spent does not add to wealth. Only income that is invested adds to wealth. One thing is remember is that the real estate boom is long over. Back in the 50's, 60's and even early 70's the value of real estate grew at astonishing rates. Homes purchased for $30k in the 50's were worth over $100k in the 70's. That helps explain why those in the middle class had more wealth in the 70's versus today. Our real estate purchases have not seen near that level of return on our investment. Another factor is the long term effect of low interest rates. When interest rates were high it made more sense to save money rather than borrow. People saved up to make major purchases and enjoyed the interest paid to them. Now we borrow to make purchases because interest is so low it is just easier to buy now. My parents' net worth is about 5 times mine despite the fact they have been on a fixed income for almost 30 years while my income has increased by 500% over the same time period. The reason is quite simple, they have been debt free for the last 50 years. Please don't allow yourself to be sucked in by pretty little graphs and charts. Do your homework, read the raw data for yourself. Look at ALL the economic factors before allowing yourself to get sucked into the "those damn rich people are taking all our money" scenario. Sorry this was long. I hope some of you took the time to read the entire post. And more importantly I hope you will wait until your knee stops jerking and do some reading from multiple sources if you really are concerned about this.

VTexan	Posted - 3/5/2013 3:30:13 PM \| show profile \| flag this post So blacked There's no problem? I mean, I hear your points, and think there's some merit to them. Is your upshot that the video, the "pretty graphs"...that they all amount to nothing? And that there being a fantastically shrinking middle class is NO problem?

beenthere	Posted - 3/5/2013 3:40:46 PM \| show profile \| flag this post but, but, but ... You are asking them to: 1. Do some research 2. Look at multiple sources 3. THINK about/understand what they have read AND 4. Form an independent opinion I've been singing that song for months ... and getting slammed left and right every time. Welcome to the club, bt.

blackedtaped	Posted - 3/5/2013 4:08:22 PM \| show profile \| flag this post Vtexan No I guess my point is that the shrinking middle class is as much our own doing as anyone's. We have made the choice to not put away savings or invest our money. We spend our money pretty much as fast as we make it. We buy new cars every 5 years. We put down as little as possibile to buy our homes and then are stunned when the real estate market makes a down turn. Is there a problem? Yes. Is it the fault of the weathy or the government or anyone else? No, for the most part it is our own fault. Now before anyone starts screaming I completely understand those below the poverty line or without a job have no options for investing or saving. I understand they are just struggling to pay bills. But for the rest of the middle class the lack of wealth is a matter of personal choice, at least in my opinion.

blackedtaped	Posted - 3/5/2013 4:24:43 PM \| show profile \| flag this post Thanks, beenthere.. I strongly suggest you follow your own advice when it comes to medical issues. I think you ignore step 2, at least you ignore a large amount of sources and focus on a select few. No big deal when talking politics but a very dangerous practice when talking about medical issues.

etaoin shrdlu	Posted - 3/5/2013 4:27:40 PM \| show profile \| flag this post Blackedtape... while there is a difference between wealth and income, in the investor class -- much of that 1% -- they are inseparable. At that level, income is generated by accumulated wealth.

VTexan	Posted - 3/5/2013 11:25:54 PM \| show profile \| flag this post The extreme degree ...of the way things have gotten, and of course, peoples' misperception of the facts...goes deeper, by my reckoning, than just explaining it away as a difference between terms, or even the adjustment of Americans in the modern day to be bad savers. No matter what filter it's put through to understand it, the shrinking middle class can less and less afford thing THINGS, the gadgets, the cars, the washing machines...that will keep their neighbors working. It's very unsettling.

blackedtaped	Posted - 3/6/2013 7:17:18 AM \| show profile \| flag this post Then I must ask VTexan What's your solution? I agree that record unemployment has made matters much worse in regards to income. And without income you certainly can't save. And I offered my suggestion on how to fix it. So I ask what's yours?

VTexan	Posted - 3/6/2013 9:34:40 AM \| show profile \| flag this post Perhaps ...you mistake me for a man of huge vision. A politician of the likes of the Roosevelts, or Honest Abe. That's not me. But I'm a man who looks around the world he lives in, sees wrongs, or sees things that have gone off kilter and thinks they're worth noting. Worth shining light on. Another thing that's changed between when you and I were kids, and now...is the fact that CEOs are paid exponentially more than they were then. That's not a nothin'. It's a real thing. A company has one pie but to take slices out of. If the CEO is taking 1/10 of the pie, it necessarily leaves far less than if they were taking 1/1000th of that pie. Pointing that out doesn't make me a commie of a socialist. It's just pointing out what's in front of us all. I think the idea of a Board of Directors voting continual raises in the CEO's salary is a big problem because each one of them hopes to occupy that CEO position at some point, and each raise they're voting for him/her is one they might benefit from in the future. Capitalism (nearly) unchained has some very unsavory aspects, and while the problem is far more complex than just that, it's one that bothers me a lot.

blackedtaped	Posted - 3/6/2013 4:04:42 PM \| show profile \| flag this post The real interesting thing At least to me is that no one offered "raising taxes on the highest earners" as a solution to this situation. I really suspected that was the driving force behind this chart. Maybe I am wrong, maybe everyone understands that is not a solution. I hold out hope that is the case.

cdnreprtr	Posted - 3/6/2013 4:18:37 PM \| show profile \| flag this post By your definition... ... The wealthy are not earners. The vast bulk of their wealth does not come from earned income, it comes from investment income. That is the way the US tax system is skewed. People who have money that make more money out of it get huge tax breaks and vastly lower tax rates on that income, compared to middle and working class Americans who depend on the income earned through their labour. No other country is more generous to people who do nothing for their wealth. Hard work and sweat has nothing to do with it. Your choice. But it Shouldn't be a surprise that America has, amount the G8, one the least upward mobility stats. That is an economic fact as well. If you want to rise from property to the middle class, or the middle class to the wealthy .. You know "The American dream". .... Better to live in another country. But, of course... It is Obamas fault.

cdnreprtr	Posted - 3/6/2013 4:22:09 PM \| show profile \| flag this post To which I may add.. .. Apple, which is a wonderful American innovator and a proud international success story, still has spell check and auto correction that sucks.

Grateful Deadline	Posted - 3/6/2013 5:07:26 PM \| show profile \| flag this post * People who have money that make more money out of it get huge tax breaks and vastly lower tax rates on that income, c * All of them? No, of course not. Are you familiar with capital gains, dividend reinvestment, deferred income and such? Making money on money is available to anyone who cares to do it. It doesn't take a lot of money. You could start doing it with $10 a month. Then you would be making the fruits of your hard labour work for you.

cdnreprtr	Posted - 3/7/2013 6:45:21 AM \| show profile \| flag this post GD... Investment income (capital gains,etc) does not require effort. Yes, anyone with a little cash can make investment income ... That is why the stock market has expanded so rapidly over the past 30 years; middle class investments and 401ks have spurred demand, leading to skyrocketing, and many would say unsustainable PE ratios. (Let's be clear here, stock prices are not an indication of the true value of the company or its revenue, it is an indication of the stock price the market will bear in expectation of future, possible, capital returns) . But the wealthy's investments are not like yours and mine. The big returns are in unregulated hedge funds and derivatives and complex deals where the minimum buy in is in the six figures. The wealthy have the luxury of using their massive wealth to work for them. Middle and working class Americans still, overwhelmingly, earn their incomes through labour. the issue here is how people get their wealth and how earned income is taxed more harshly than investment income. And when investment markets .. A economic tool meant to capitalize business and hedge risk ... Become largely unregulated centres of pure and low taxed profit, self serving and bigger than the real engines of economic growth they are mean to fuel ... Well that's a problem. It is a fundamentally unbalanced economy, that is non sustainable. That's what we are seeing now. A stock market that hits new all times highs, taking profit , while hard economic growth is at best modest. The disconnect in the economic data .. Be in incomes and wealth, or GDP growth, or tax burdens, etc ... Is pretty clear. That's not a strong foundation for any economy.