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Why the Sudden Rush to Defund Obamacare?
Posted - 7/28/2013 5:50:46 PM | show profile | flag this post
and while we're at it...
PLEASE explain to me exactly what "NO NEED to tear down our entire health care system" means. Exactly.
Since ObamaCare became law; were hospitals and clinics bull-dozed in some way? Were Doctors and nurses told you have to find a new line of work? Were insurance companies forcibly disbanded? And of course, most important, were patients automatically told 'Yer on yer own' and did those Death Panels start executing Grandmas nationwide?
No?? So what do you mean by "tear down our entire health care system"
This should be interesting....
Posted - 7/28/2013 6:14:57 PM | show profile | flag this post
"Like...say...sick and dying people??"
And you think Obamacare is going to prevent that??? What a fool!
Posted - 7/28/2013 6:25:59 PM | show profile | flag this post
"urge your Congressmen to work with the WH to improve, tweak
and streamline ObamaCare"
Nope. The idea is to REPEAL Obamacare and improve, tweak and streamline what we have now...which is orders of magnitude better.
The reason your "surveys" show the US lagging is because most of them are predicated on a socialized system...which we currently do not have (unless Obama somehow gets his way) and do not want.
And any deficiencies can be rectified by the improvements to the CURRENT system I outlined.
Obama's major thrust is to build a huge, bureaucratic and socialistic monument to himself. He knows his scheme will not improve health care in the US. He is, after all, a lame duck and won't be around to take the heat. And that's a big part of the reason much of his scheme was delayed until his second term or until after he leaves office.
Posted - 7/28/2013 7:13:26 PM | show profile | flag this post
We always enjoy watching you squirm out of your own words before you run away like a scared rat...
I NEVER SAID Obamacare is going to prevent sick and dying people did I?? What I DID say was that it is established law (Thought you liked that sort of thing), so trying to repeal it for the 40th time is a monumental waste of time and money. I also said that because of ObamaCare "Healthcare Costs Fell for First Time in Almost 40 Years". (And it will save money for all of us down the road as well). I also said that even Republicans have recognized for decades the old system was in dire need of reform.
Now all of that is easy to confirm. Be honest. You didn't look up any of many sources, or even Google it...it's far easier just to get all red-faced and yell "Socialism!!"
"Obama's major thrust is to..." Oh. You know that for a fact. "He knows his scheme will not improve health care in the US." You know that for a fact. "He is, after all, a lame duck and won't be around to take the heat." It was passed during his first term you moron. The American voters re-elected him.
Go ahead. Try to weasel yourself out of this. You're trying to cling to the belief, that no one shares, that the old system was just NIFTY if you're rich, thank you very much; You lied about what I said; and you cited jack-squat when it comes to sources outside of your own Obamaphobia.
You really a guilty pleasure sometimes. And as orthicon might say, you ain't gettin paid enough.
Posted - 7/28/2013 8:07:00 PM | show profile | flag this post
You have lost all credibility
To defend the egregiously idiotic health care scheme of a president who has lost five percent of the median income for the middle class...a drop of some $2700/year...is nuts.
You're backing a stone loser.
Posted - 7/28/2013 8:45:08 PM | show profile | flag this post
Well, THAT had nothing to do with anything
we were talking about it now does it.
Decided to give up on the "Our CURRENT health care system (NOT Obamacare) is the best on Earth..." did we?
Now we're onto something completely different. "a president who has lost five percent of the median income for the middle class..."
Really?? HE personally did that?? Damn what power. So I guess then the Super RICH can personally thank him for this: "although the 1 percent felt the recession, they have recovered nicely—claiming all of the income gains in 2010 and 2011 (over those two years, the incomes of the top 1 percent grew 11 percent while the incomes of everyone else fell .4 percent)"
And we all know how much you luuuuuv the rich. They should be very appreciative. Did the Koch Brothers send a card??
Posted - 7/28/2013 9:02:25 PM | show profile | flag this post
yeah, they probably did send him a card...
with a nice check enclosed..
Posted - 7/28/2013 9:14:40 PM | show profile | flag this post
You people are a trip
As long as you can deflect the focus by writing everything off to political animus and/or racism, you don't have to confront the real issues. You're very skilled at that.
What you're NOT skilled at is intelligent consideration and the ability to do thoughtful analyses.
Posted - 7/28/2013 10:38:29 PM | show profile | flag this post
Yea I did just that
We had 29 posts on 'ObamaCare'--and, being the jerk I am, totally 'deflected the focus' onto how Obama personally "lost five percent of the median income for the middle class"...
Guess I'm not as skilled as some at changing the subject out of the clear blue and then trying to blame others...
Posted - 7/28/2013 11:07:57 PM | show profile | flag this post
Even though you have this habit of never
directly or honestly addressing a topic, I thought you were going to be reasonable in this thread. Since you're not, I have nothing further to say.
Posted - 7/28/2013 11:44:17 PM | show profile | flag this post
*** And any deficiencies can be rectified by the improvements to the CURRENT system I outlined. ***
You cited two severe problems for which "deficiencies" is too mild a word and neglected even to *name* any improvements, let alone "outline" any.
Posted - 7/29/2013 10:37:20 AM | show profile | flag this post
It's just thoroughly weird
...how one of cruiser's favorite obfuscations with having substantive discussions about a subject is to accuse others of CHANGING that subject to avoid same.
Then out of the blue, he does it.
Someone points out that he does it.
And he claims he hasn't.
Cruiser, despite your supertanker full of faults, you are, if nothing else, quite the trip. You're like the shoplifter leaving a store with item in hand, no receipt, who maintains he's stolen absolutely nothing.
Posted - 7/29/2013 10:53:58 AM | show profile | flag this post
Notice how most (all?) of the left wingers here
WILL NOT...or perhaps cannot...discuss the topic of the thread. All they can do is hurl ad hominem. If ANYONE can make a rational post that addresses the topic I'd be happy to engage.
Posted - 7/29/2013 11:24:19 AM | show profile | flag this post
"Notice how.." SAY WHAT?
"left wingers here WILL NOT...or perhaps cannot...discuss the topic of the thread"
Tha's ALL we were doing for Chrissakes. Everything from how horribly embarassing terribly bad the old health care system was, (with plenty of sources), to past (bipartisan) efforts to fix the problem, to the cost savings under Obamacare...
All you could come up with was "Our CURRENT health care system (NOT Obamacare) is the best on Earth..." and scream 'Socialism!' again...and falsely claim I said Obamacare was going to miraculously cure sick and dying people.
When THAT narrative fell apart, you did a total pivot onto "Obama personally "lost five percent of the median income for the middle class"...
When THAT didn't work, you blame 'left wingers' for changing the subject. Do you think we CAN'T read, or are just hoping we WON'T read?
Posted - 7/29/2013 12:05:26 PM | show profile | flag this post
cruiser, look at it this way: You succeeded in using a preposterous post to deflect the subject onto yourself, you called media people idiots a few times, and you loaded up your posts with condescension.
What more could you achieve? You should be happy.
Go start the day with a bowl of right-wing corn flakes, and cheer up.
Posted - 7/29/2013 1:33:38 PM | show profile | flag this post
repeated, panicked posts prove the point of the original post in this threat -- that Republicans are freaked out they'll suffer setbacks in 2014 due to people actually liking Obamacare if they try it -- so they have to kill it before October 1.
Mind you, it will be almost impossible to repeal after October 1 -- because so much of it will be in effect.
Repealing it after the start of the fiscal year would require the GOP to kick millions of Americans off health insurance.
The demand for a full repeal would also kick hundreds of thousands off their parents' health insurance and could cause hundreds of thousands more to lose coverage due to pre-existing conditions.
That's bad advertising for the GOP going into an election year.
I don't think that the GOP will lose the House over campaigning against Obamacare in 2014. It very well could swing back to the Democrats in 2016 if the GOP doesn't get on board. This IS the plan they've been proposing for 40 years. They've been unable to offer up any plan they want to replace it.
But what's more dangerous for the GOP is the current push by the TEA Party to shut down the federal government to prevent funding for Obamacare.
THAT WILL destroy any chance the GOP had of regaining the Senate and COULD cost them the House in 2014.
Posted - 7/29/2013 2:01:44 PM | show profile | flag this post
I don't think that the GOP will lose the House over campaigning against Obamacare in 2014.
I think it's going to depend on how much consumers will be pay for insurance when re-enrollment begins this fall. No one knows yet.
I've asked my HR rep twice this year how much my insurance is going to go up and she says that they haven't received any information from the insurer, and WILL NOT receive anything until re-enrollment begins.
That will be the beginning of the real test as to how well people will accept it.
Posted - 7/29/2013 2:37:54 PM | show profile | flag this post
"Tha's ALL we were doing for Chrissakes"
No, pal...let me explain this...S-L-O-W-L-Y:
What you've been doing is reciting the left wing talking points and Obama's "justification" for Obamacare. It is...ahh, let's say, less than truthful.
Posted - 7/29/2013 3:01:40 PM | show profile | flag this post
beenthere..All in the eye of the beholder
"I think it's going to depend on how much consumers will be pay for insurance....how well people will accept it." Now, that is certainly true...but this is where the 'perspective' comes in...you already HAVE comfortable insurance ("I've asked my HR rep")
I'm not saying you HAVE to care; but what about everybody else? "Prior to the Act, only people who fell into one of four categories could get affordable health care:
1.Those who work for a company that provides it.
2.Those who can afford to pay on their own and who have no pre-existing conditions.
3.The very poor, who have Medicaid.
4.Those who are 65 and older, who have Medicare.
If you don't fall into one of those categories, you are forced to pay for health care out of your pocket. If you can't afford it, either the hospital must pick up the cost, or you must declare bankruptcy (About.com)
Of course, if we cut down on billion dollar ER visits, that will benefit all of us. There could be close to 100, million Americans who've used provisions in Obamacareto get preventative care through their insurance plans. Millions of seniors have save well over a billion in drug costs. At least 2.5 million young people now can stay on their parents’ health insurance until age 26. And 4 million small businesses can now claim a tax deduction for providing health insurance to their employees, which so far over a quarter-million small businesses have claimed, providing insurance for 2 million workers. Hell, that's just scratching the surface.
(The law creates jobs obviously as well. Besides the increase in insurance company hiring, 190 construction and renovation projects at health centers with 67 completely new health center sites being created. Over the next two years, it will support over 485 new construction and renovation projects at health centers with 245 completely new health centers. (DHS)
I'm happy for you beenthere; you've had affordable health care. IMO, it's time others did too.
Posted - 7/29/2013 3:06:04 PM | show profile | flag this post
c'mon, cruiztwit..you make a LIVING..
regurgitating rightwingnut talking points and conspiracy theories..with NOTHING to back up your rantings..and when confronted by those of us with triple digit IQ's, you cut and run..
you've been caught in so many barefaced lies no one can even keep track of them anymore..
and you have the chutzpah to attack others for what you erroneously see as them doing the same thing???
sorry.. that won't wash around here..
Posted - 7/29/2013 3:11:10 PM | show profile | flag this post
You are making WAY too many assumptions.
How do YOU know what my insurance costs? You don't.
How do YOU know what my experience with health insurance is? You don't.
I once went FIVE YEARS without it. I've also had employer-sponsored, COBRA and self-insurance, as well as combinations of it to cover my family.
My last employer had employees "contribute" almost $1,000 a MONTH for a family plan. You think that's affordable?
Prices vary from employer to employer, from insurer to insurer, and I still cannot get a straight answer as to what mine will cost so I can MAKE A DECISION as to what to do financially for me and my family.
Stop. Assuming. My post was brief and concise, you made a bunch of crap up and then answered your own assumptions that you hurled at me.
BOTTOM LINE: Once the cost hits, people will have a better idea of whether they like it or not.
SPARE ME THE LECTURE.
Posted - 7/29/2013 3:23:20 PM | show profile | flag this post
you're leaving out a major factor in how this will influence the electorate: Overnight, on October first, 50 MILLION Americans who currently CANNOT get health insurance -- will be able to get it.
Not all of them are voters. But many of them are the children of voters.
Will your insurance go up next year? Of course. How many times has it NOT gone up in the last 20 years?
Will that be a result of Obamacare? Right now, the early numbers are showing sharp drops in insurance prices in several large states -- like California.
The doom and gloom the GOP has been preaching since 2010 has been political propaganda and the worst of these claims will NEVER be realized -- remember the "death panels?" They never materialized.
Posted - 7/29/2013 3:40:12 PM | show profile | flag this post
As I stated to mp, my point was not meandering and should not have been misunderstand.
I was talking solely about cost.
That's it. When you hit people in the pocketbook when the bill (not the ESTIMATE) finally comes through, THAT's when you will see if the public is happy or not.
I'm struggling to see what is so difficult to understand about that concept.
Even though I have been PROACTIVE and trying to PLAN for my family, I cannot get a straight, definitive answer from my HR/insurer.
At only two months out, with no numbers at the ready, it is unsettling to say the least.
And again, you have NO IDEA how much I have paid for insurance over the years.
Posted - 7/29/2013 3:51:53 PM | show profile | flag this post
It is quite interesting that instead of addressing the fact that people will have opinions re the AHA once the new premiums are known, both mp and es instead were questioning how much i pay personally for insurance.
Did I say that people will be for it and that will change their vote? NO
Did I say that people will be against it and that will change their vote? NO
Just that opinions will be known when costs are known.
But somehow both of you were exceedingly curious about how much I pay.
Posted - 7/29/2013 4:03:03 PM | show profile | flag this post
*** My last employer had employees "contribute" almost $1,000 a MONTH for a family plan. You think that's affordable? ***
"Almost $1,000 a MONTH for a family plan" would be a dream come true in some states.
My state, California, has a marketplace. On a preliminary calculation, the "silver plan" insurance would cost me almost $2,000 a year less than the premium I pay for my own insurance this year.
For kicks, I ran the California calculator on a family of four with a household income of $64,000 with ages 48 and 46, a child under 21 and a child age 21-25. The estimated monthly cost is $463.
That's a week's worth of groceries less than I pay now.