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Topic: When THEY come to you...
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| Author | Message |
| RobinS | Posted – 1/25/2005 10:31:27 PM | show profile for contact information because they want to do a story for contact information for a series on a topic you've researched and written about, do you hire an entertainment/media lawyer or agent? If so, where would I look? If no, what IS the going rate and procedure for writers who provide sources to top-notch television documentaries and magazines? Case in point: PBS has asked me for names and addresses of subjects for a series they are producing. It took 8 years and thousands of dollars of my own to gather this information. There have been two other similar requests from other media outlets. Thanks Robin ------ Telling the Stories of People Around the World to Increase Awareness that we are OneWorld www.robinsparks.com |
| eriksherman | Posted – 1/25/2005 10:41:07 PM | show profile Robin, be very wary. (See, and you thought I wasn't the helpful sort.) Television producers don't have a great reputation, and public television producers have some of the worst in the business. If you hand over information, they'll happily walk off and use it without a thought of what you could use in return. While I haven't dealt with them personally, I know those who have and those who have worked in such places. You need to explain that the information has considerable value, has taken you years to collect, and that you'd be happy to talk about an arrangement that adequately compensates you. Chances are they will walk away and try to get it for free elsewhere. If not, figure that they will low-ball at first. Maybe you can get a producer credit and money to help them put the series together. If they seem warm to doing a deal, then you get professional help, because you don't know enough about how that industry works to successfully negotiate. Whether to go with an agent or a lawyer is a bit of a toss-up. A good entertainment lawyer with experience dealing with documentary work will undoubtedly know what the market will bear, but will be charging you by the hour. The agent will take some overall cut, but you probably won't owe anything if the deal falls through. One possibility is seeing if the lawyer will work for a cut on contingency. ------ Author of "Geocaching: Hike and Seek with Your GPS" - hidden at a bookstore near you... |
| limericks4all | Posted – 1/25/2005 11:37:47 PM | show profile There probably isn't a going rate for this type of thing. It's whatever you can get. Mailing houses will charge a pricy amount for one time use of their info. If they buy this, they'll have it forever. Personally, I would decide on what it the minimum that you would let this info go you -- $50, $100, $1,000, $5,000. I'd ask them to make an offer and then negotiate. If they wouldn't make an offer, I'd ask for a lot and be quiet. I would't expect to get it. But I wouldn't give them one bit of info until I got a signed agreement. <<Case in point: PBS has asked me for names and addresses of subjects for a series they are producing. It took 8 years and thousands of dollars of my own to gather this information.>> |
| maphop | Posted – 1/26/2005 8:39:43 AM | show profile I have to agree with Limerick. Having been contacted by PBS myself in the past, my guess is that the minute you mention the word agent, they'll balk and run. If it's a station or affiliate that's approaching you, I'd discuss either a flat fee or a paid contract position on the project team as an associate producer, etc. If it's a documentary producer on behalf of PBS, they'll have their own budgets to work with nailed down and I wouldn't do a thing without a written agreement as to an intellectual property or research fee. BTW, this isn't just about PBS...I was solicited by a cable television show about hosting a series; the next thing I knew, they were going ahead with the project having used my name to solicit celebrities to participate but were using someone else - cheaper - to quasi-host. Protect yourself but take pride in the fact that if you've been approached three times you must have a story/subject that you did a heck of a job on. |
| ideefixe | Posted – 1/26/2005 10:58:49 AM | show profile I'm a doc. producer, and I don't try to siphon off sources. I usually offer people a consultant credit and money, depending on how much material there is and how hard to find it is to find. If you have contacts with real people who've suffered through some dreadful trauma whose trust you won, think long and hard about giving their names to some PBS producer. (PBS often lets people think they're on a mission from God, but they're just cheap, more than likely). I doubt that an agent or lawyer would bother--you're only going to get a couple of thousand. If you have photos or home videos, etc., you can get more money. So, tell them that this is eight years worth of work, and you spent $10,000 of your own money, and let them make an offer. But be prepared for them to just go away--PBS budgets are very small. |
| GG | Posted – 1/26/2005 12:46:41 PM | show profile related question This is a timely discussion for me, as I am currently developing a series idea with an independent producer for HGTV and we don't have a written agreement at this point. My questions are: If HGTV wants the series, but doesn't want me as host, will they pay me a ''creator's fee'' and if so, what's the range of such fees? (The idea for the series came from me...the producer is helping me develop the pitch and has the contacts with the network.) I know HGTV is notoriously cheap...does anybody know how many writers and producers typically work on their shows? There's an obvious book spin-off to this show. At what point do I negotiate that it belongs to me, not to the network? The producer seems very nice, but I'm worried that I'll get screwed due to my naiveté. |
| eriksherman | Posted – 1/26/2005 12:50:42 PM | show profile >> This is a timely discussion for me, as I am currently developing a series idea with an independent producer for HGTV and we don't have a written agreement at this point. << You don't have an agreement with the producer? Then you are treading on rapidly thinning ice - I'd suggest you get one in place right away, stake out the book territory, and all that. Don't depend on nice - a contract and a mean lawyer are ultimately more comforting. ------ Author of "Geocaching: Hike and Seek with Your GPS" - hidden at a bookstore near you... |
| torocita | Posted – 1/26/2005 3:29:47 PM | show profile Regarding developing a show (GG) -- I think you can have a little bit of trust. This board makes it sound like most TV people are shysters looking to rip you off, but, for the most part, if you're dealing with reputable people/prod. companies, that really isn't the case. No one wants to get sued, and if you've been having meetings, etc., with the network, your name is attached to the project and they won't steal it out from under you. If you've developed the entire show on your own, you can ask the producer to option it (he gives you a certain amount of money to have the exclusive rights to it for a year while he tries to get it set up). Another thing: producers are not writers, and they fully realize this. They need someone who can take a great idea and execute it well -- without a writer, there's no project. Don't get me wrong -- I'm not advising you to throw caution to the wind, but you don't need to panic, either. I've sold a couple TV projects that I developed with producers without any formal agreement, and I'm developing an original drama series right now with a producer with whom I have nothing on paper, but I know I can trust because the reason he wanted to produce this series is that he liked my story, my voice, my ideas -- without me -- he's got nothing. Same goes for you and your project -- if you're the visionary, why would anyone cut you out of the loop? |
| GG | Posted – 1/26/2005 3:37:55 PM | show profile thanks Thanks to both of you for your responses. I sent a note to my literary agent today asking her to please call the producer just to touch base... Love your name, torocita. Best of luck to you and Robin with your projects. |
| mediaegg | Posted – 1/26/2005 8:52:38 PM | show profile those PBS producers <Robin, be very wary. (See, and you thought I wasn't the helpful sort.) Television producers don't have a great reputation, and public television producers have some of the worst in the business.> As an contract producer with PBS, I take exception to that comment! PBS, especially local affiliates, have very small budgets and work with very little resources. That said, as a producer (and writer), I would never scam contacts off someone else - but if they had anything at all that I could use, I'd offer them the only thing I have to give - the ability to give them a credit on the show. There is really no such thing as a budget for contacts or even for research (unless it involves travel) for most public TV productions. If you have something other people want, ask them to make an offer because what you have has value. See what they are in the position to offer. If they can offer you nothing at all, unless you feel it is an important program, don't bother. Or see if you can parlay your connections into a paid consulting gig to make intros. If you are in discussions with any producer about ''your ideas,'' don't open your mouth again until you get a development agreement of some kind. There should be some kind of fee for helping to develop the idea (consulting, finders fee, something), especially if they do not hire you to host. Don't give it all away! ------ aliza sherman risdahl http://www.mediaegg.com/ |
| arewrites | Posted – 1/26/2005 11:31:54 PM | show profile >>That said, as a producer (and writer), I would never scam contacts off someone else - but if they had anything at all that I could use, I'd offer them the only thing I have to give - the ability to give them a credit on the show. There is really no such thing as a budget for contacts or even for research (unless it involves travel) for most public TV productions.<< That's very nice of you, but you're a rarity at PBS. I received the very nicest e-mail from a PBS guy telling me that my research for an article (which was online, and therefore included URLs to various sources) was enormously helpful. It was clear from the start that even the *idea for the piece came from my article, and when I saw the finished product, it was also clear that every single contact that he'd made, every single interview that he'd done, had been made possible by my research. (This is in a foreign country, where he would not have had this information available to him had I not put it out there in English.) I suggested that we meet; I offered to appear on the show as an expert; I offered to provide further information. Nothing doing. The piece aired *twice on PBS, and I received ZERO credit each time - just the one little ''thank you'' note which I currently use as evidence that said article of mine served as the basic background to and research for this segment. And the lesson learned? Do not, do not, do not, include URLs -- or too much other information, in the case of a print piece -- that can guide hijackers like this to your sources. And Robin, the answer to your question is: don't do it. Until producers and docu-writers have the decency to treat journalists with respect and professional courtesy, they can do their own damn homework. |
| Marie | Posted – 1/27/2005 12:06:18 AM | show profile That is disgusting. Even if they couldn't put you on the show or offer you a producing or consultant credit, the producer could have at least thanked you in the credits, or somehow made mention that your work inpired the documentary. This has turned into a good thread. More PBS bashing anyone? I hate that network. |
| eriksherman | Posted – 1/27/2005 5:03:19 AM | show profile >> The piece aired *twice on PBS, and I received ZERO credit each time - just the one little ''thank you'' note which I currently use as evidence that said article of mine served as the basic background to and research for this segment. << are, it's called a derivative work and is a violation of copyright. You might register your article with the US Copyright Office and then see their reaction when you inform them that they've pretty much given you the evidence you need to take court action in the US. (PBS might itself be a defendant in such an action - and they have money.) ------ Author of "Geocaching: Hike and Seek with Your GPS" - hidden at a bookstore near you... |
| GG | Posted – 1/27/2005 11:13:04 AM | show profile URLs <And the lesson learned? Do not, do not, do not, include URLs -- or too much other information, in the case of a print piece -- that can guide hijackers like this to your sources.> I'm sorry that you had such a bad experience, but isn't the point of including URLs to provide additional information for one's readers? If the links are resources that will be of service to one's readers, it seems kinda silly to not include them for fear of being taken advantage of by evil television producers. |
| ideefixe | Posted – 1/27/2005 11:42:27 AM | show profile As regards the HGTV show--if HGTV doesn't want you as host, then you need to spell out in the the contract, what you want--exec. prod. credit or ''created by'' or whatever. But, new shows on HGTV don't have a credit crawl, you can really call anyone,whatever you like. Typically, you have one writer (and since nothing on HGTV is WGA) your writers have 'segment producer'' or producer credit for a 1 hour or 1/2 hour format. You'd have an EP, a Supervising Prod. (2000 a week), and a Producer (12-1800 per week) who may or may not be the director/field producer/studio producer. The network might want part of your book deal--and that can work for you in terms of marketing, promotion, etc. You need a contract with the producer--I don't even have lunch with someone with an idea with signing at least a non-disclosure agreement. |
| GG | Posted – 1/27/2005 11:56:22 AM | show profile Thanks, ideefixe, that's very helpful. Here's another question for you: Do you happen to know how HGTV deals with hosts who are members of SAG? They use so many actors, it seems like some must have union representation (though the network is so cheap, I'm sure they like to avoid it). As it happens, due to my long-ago former life as a teenage actress I am a member of the union (my membership isn't active, but can be reinstated at any time.) Any thoughts on how I might handle this? |
| ideefixe | Posted – 1/27/2005 12:05:06 PM | show profile Oh, and to add--while PBS is cheap, at the national level, there's research money--it all depends how you work your budget. Yes, a local affiliate-level show will have a tiny budget, but those are mainly labors of love productions anyway. But a big production out of WNET or WGBH- there's plenty of money. |
| ideefixe | Posted – 1/27/2005 12:32:46 PM | show profile If I recall correctly, HGTV pays AFTRA rates, not SAG. You can be Taft-Hartlied for your first appearance. But you'll typically get your P & W and the day-rate paid, unless you can negoiate a better deal. |
| GG | Posted – 1/27/2005 12:54:07 PM | show profile translation? What does Taft-Hartlied mean? And what's a P & W? Thanks so much! |
| ideefixe | Posted – 1/27/2005 5:37:35 PM | show profile Pension & Welfare. (It's the same in all the entertainment unions). Taft-Hartly is the term used when you are waived and must join the union within 30 days, if you're making a 2nd appearance, or something close to that. |
| GG | Posted – 1/27/2005 7:13:29 PM | show profile muchisimas gracias |
| arewrites | Posted – 1/27/2005 10:41:18 PM | show profile >>are, it's called a derivative work and is a violation of copyright. You might register your article with the US Copyright Office and then see their reaction when you inform them that they've pretty much given you the evidence you need to take court action in the US. (PBS might itself be a defendant in such an action - and they have money.)<< Erik, you're a winner. I will do exactly that. |
| arewrites | Posted – 1/27/2005 10:44:16 PM | show profile >>I'm sorry that you had such a bad experience, but isn't the point of including URLs to provide additional information for one's readers? If the links are resources that will be of service to one's readers, it seems kinda silly to not include them for fear of being taken advantage of by evil television producers.<< If I wasn't clear, let me restate: I'm not saying not to include URLs. I *am saying that one should be selective and protective when doing so. |
| GG | Posted – 1/28/2005 12:17:38 PM | show profile Agreed. |
| even_newer-id | Posted – 1/28/2005 12:53:45 PM | show profile For those of you who don't automatically think expansion of copyright is a good thing may I suggest http://www.crookedtimber.org/archives/003144.html |
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