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Topic: Has this ever happened to you?
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| Author | Message |
| lenagrove | Posted – 1/11/2005 4:43:33 PM | show profile Several months ago, I sent a pitch to an assistant editor at a big magazine. When I called to follow up, she said they wouldn't be interested in doing a story on that topic. Then, in just enough issues later to be the perfect editorial lead time from the time I pitched the idea, I pick up the magazine in the grocery store only to find a story on that topic written by the very editor I pitched it to. I know you can't copyright an idea, and I know it's perfectly legal for them to swipe your idea, but it still sucks. And I was soooo qualified to write the thing, too. Oh well. Just wanted to vent. Anyone feel my pain? |
| kh | Posted – 1/11/2005 4:50:24 PM | show profile | email poster can you give more details? sorry to hear about this! but can you give more details, like was this a trend piece that could have easily been picked up by another freelancer or a staffer? or did you have a specific list of sources and angles? again, so sorry -- unfortunately it hasn't happened to me but i hear about it often from other writers. |
| lenagrove | Posted – 1/11/2005 5:32:50 PM | show profile It wasn't so unusual that no one else would have thought of it or anything. It just bugged me more because I have great credentials related to the topic, and because she specifically told me they wouldn't be interested in a story about it. Isn't this bad karma at least? |
| limericks4all | Posted – 1/11/2005 6:25:26 PM | show profile Well, maybe she told you they wouldn't be interested because they already had the idea in the works -- that isn't necessarily info an editor would share with you. Or maybe the assistant editor was assigned the idea by a higher editor after you called. Or maybe the editor thought about it more, decided it was good, but by then she had forgotten your name, and just decided to do it on her own. Lots of reasons for this. |
| zinny | Posted – 1/11/2005 7:21:17 PM | show profile So who was the editor, what publication, and which article? |
| lenagrove | Posted – 1/11/2005 9:42:05 PM | show profile Yeah, I'm gonna put that in cyberspace! :) |
| gdnevl | Posted – 1/12/2005 9:25:49 AM | show profile lenagrove I actually just saw something I had written in a magazine from copy that I created and supplied to a PR firm (obviously without my name attached to it.) I've also seen topics and related material chosen out of a magazine that I used to write/edit (it has my name in the masthead as Exec Editor) used by a well known food celebrity for his show on the Food Network. I would like to think that it was purely coincidental but this celeb was featured in the very issue that the aforementioned topics were. The issue featured 4 different topics and I watched those 4 topics play out consecutively on his shows. Guess ideas are hard to come by for some. You're not alone! |
| 1000words | Posted – 1/12/2005 10:36:53 AM | show profile I made the mistake of submitting an article on spec to a major newspaper without querying first. It was a time-sensitive article, and I thought this would be a better way to get it published. I received no reply, and a week later there was an article published that oddly enough had nearly the same exact content and the same tone as my piece. I was furious, but unfortunately there's nothing I could do about it. What's done is done. |
| Lotus665 | Posted – 1/12/2005 11:21:06 AM | show profile 1000 words, if it is close enough you may actually have a copyright infringement case. Here we're talking stolen text not just stolen ideas. ------ Lotus665 |
| Gillybean | Posted – 1/12/2005 2:48:10 PM | show profile Non-Disclosure Agreement? Us designers have used these handy legal forms for years. They force clients to keep any sensitive or proprietary information confidential, and also binds them to pay for any graphic solutions they use and that they might see in your presentation. Does such a thing exist for writers? I imagine a pitch would not even make it past the front door with this little piece of paper, but an editor might sign it in order to see an article written on spec. What is acceptable in the writing world? As far as the a______s that stole the ideas and the story--how about passing the word by talking to as many people as you can? This is a very small industry and a damaged reputation is a huge liability for magazines AND for the professionals that work in them. The editors you speak about will eventually move on to other magazines and find themselves working with or for others who already know them by name... |
| mediaegg | Posted – 1/12/2005 5:12:55 PM | show profile feeling your pain The first time I pitched to Oprah magazine, I thought I had a totally ''unique'' idea. I was in my 30s and had just spent a year driving solo around the country in an old RV. I had been writing essays about the experience to encourage other women to do the same and thought the topic, angle and experience was pretty hard to duplicate and perfect for their magazine. Well, in just the right number of months later, they came out with the exact same article - just another 30-something woman who took a cross country trek. Can't remember all the particulars but it was so close that it felt like they found one of their own writers, sent her out on the road, and she whipped up the piece. I later learned that the magazine is known for ''borrowing'' ideas and giving them to their own writers. Recently sent them a new query (am I insane?) about my experiences as a woman in my 30s who has had 3 miscarriages in the last year and the alternative treatments I've been seeking, trying to be more true to my body and my female-ness. I'll be curious if the same/similar piece comes out in June/July 2005. I wonder... ------ aliza sherman risdahl http://www.mediaegg.com/ |
| MyPublicistRocks | Posted – 1/12/2005 6:43:52 PM | show profile Egg, You just made me laugh. Rock on! |
| even_newer-id | Posted – 1/12/2005 8:07:57 PM | show profile Just one problem egg, I've already ready a million articles on women who chucked it all to ride across country, move to Europe, live in a mountain cabin, etc. Have also read a lot on the pain of miscarriages. (At 20 -- no one thought I should be hurt because I still have lots of time left, at 30 -- this was like mourning a real death and no one really go it, at 40 -- it was my last chance and I was devastated. These are old standards not something startlingly new. |
| lenagrove | Posted – 1/12/2005 8:10:22 PM | show profile Since this happened, I actually have made professional contact with another editor at same mag. Thought about mentioning it to her, but as someone said, word gets around...and I'd be afraid it would be about ME being ''difficult.'' For all I know they could be best friends! Egg, that Oprah story is just so wrong! I read somewhere they don't use freelancers at all, so I certainly wouldn't send them any more freebies! |
| mediaegg | Posted – 1/12/2005 8:26:00 PM | show profile the blacklist lena - I must have submitted my latest query in a fit of madness. After various rejections and non-responses, I caved. If they do come out with a useful article on the topic, at least it will help other women. In terms of your situation, just be careful and don't talk about it to someone at the same pub. I agree with others that you could be ''blacklisted.'' Breaking into the biggies is tough enough without having to worry about being branded a ''troublemaker.'' Most editors want to take the path of least resistance which is why they tend to deal mostly with their stable of reliable writers. |
| mediaegg | Posted – 1/12/2005 8:27:29 PM | show profile unique stories..? id - I'd love to read some of the articles you've read - I haven't been able to find any recent articles about miscarriage in any women's mags, pregnancy mags, health mags - you name it - other than the prefunctory ''it happens, we don't know why, try again.'' But since we all think our stories are so unique, I do believe that no one has written about the topic in the various ways I've pitched. Pretty controversial stuff about the anti-female treatment women get when it comes to reproductive health, the mistaken impressions that miscarriage is the same thing as infertility, the taboo factor with miscarriage where no one will talk to you about it (until after you've had one). Also the antiquated medical information most doctors use to treat miscarriage - circa 1989. And the alternative treatments that women can turn to - that your doctor will almost never tell you about. Lots of angles way beyond ''oh, my loss is so crushing'' and delves more into ''get your insensitive, narrowminded hands out of my uterus, please.'' Lots of research, experts and opinions. |
| seamageditor | Posted – 1/13/2005 4:01:41 AM | show profile i know this is kinda tangential to the core of this thread, but i got a question about something in that last posting.... ...since when is ''misscarriage'' equated with ''infertility''? inability to bring a pregnancy to term is not, nor have i ever heard it referred to as, the inability to conceive. THAT is infertility. if you begin a pregnancy without medical interference (drugs/in vitro/etc), whether or not you complete it successfully, certainly proves that you're fertile. sorry. the science geek in me felt the need to put that out there. laurie |
| lenagrove | Posted – 1/13/2005 9:18:15 AM | show profile Egg, I did read a story in one of the big magazines several months ago about how to help a friend who has had a miscarriage. It was nice because I think a lot of people don't know what to say. You know what might be a new angle on this would be to give examples of unique ways people grieve the loss--especially since a lot of people don't really acknowledge it as the loss of a child. A friend of mine miscarried many years ago, and she and her husband named the baby and had a beautiful plaque or something made ''In Memory of [Baby's Name]'' and put it in a special place in their home. Some people might think that's weird, but if their baby had died after birth, they would have a grave and a headstone and all that, and they wanted to have something like that to acknowledge the child had existed. It might be cool to write an article that gives people permission to grieve a miscarriage, even if other people think it's not really a baby until it's born or whatever. Just a thought. |
| Lotus665 | Posted – 1/13/2005 11:54:26 AM | show profile An excellent cover story on grieving a miscarriage, by Peggy Orenstein, was published in The New York Times magazine a couple years ago-- the article was about the fact that the Japanese actually have a healing ritual for it, which Orenstein learned while visiting the country. Just FYI, good reading. ------ Lotus665 |
| even_newer-id | Posted – 1/13/2005 1:14:22 PM | show profile egg, you need to check out a database. miscarriage stories were all the rage a few years back which may explain the relative lack of them now. and frankly, as a woman who's given birth, had ovarian surgery, etc., this stuff about the patronizing anti-female medical establishment is soooo over and tired. I read it all in Our Bodies, Ourselves back in the early 70s. Most OBGyns these days are women so there's no need for anyone who takes their healthcare seriously to end up with a dinosaur doc. As an editor when I hear your pitch, my rx is that you're stuck on the old narrative and can't register change. Or, if I'm wrong, and OBGyns aren't way more enlightened and better than they were 30 years ago, my question is why after 30 years -- and yes, it has been 30+ years since the publication of OUr Bodies, Ourselves and the formation of all those women's health collectives -- do so may people believe that this whole new generation of women doctors still need to be told to take their '' insensitive, narrowminded hands out of my uterus?'' |
| nonono | Posted – 1/13/2005 2:48:54 PM | show profile newer id, did you miss the article in the NY Observer just recently? Inwhich it mentioned the gyono/obgyn who carved his initials into a woman's abdomen? This happens all the time at magazines. Pitches are stolen, and pieces submitted on spec are plagarized, or ''inspire'' similar ideas. People on this board will tell you it doesn't happen; they are wrong. It is also illegal, depending, but difficult to prove. Your best protection is accurate record-keeping, confronting the editor and/or the editor's boss when it happens--if you don't wish to work on that magazine again, at least until a new editor is hired. editors who steal ideas from writers they don't know are not a desirable thing to have on staff, as it is ofetn only a matter of time before your paths with that writer you've ripped off cross. Also being known as an editor who can't come up with ideas of his/her own is undersirable--that's supposed to be a big reason why you're hired. |
| mediaegg | Posted – 1/14/2005 7:52:20 PM | show profile off topic-ing Ooo - off topic but lots to respond to. Sorry to veer off the path, Lena. seamageditor - try selling a book on miscarriage to publishers - and to agents. They all think miscarriage and infertility are the same thing - they've told me that to my virtual face. lena - sounds like a great idea - about grief. I actually held a ceremony with some female friends at a rock formation and planted seeds, talked about my losses - I'm not a religious person but it was helpful. Lotus 665 - Did read Peggy's story - excellent, moving, intriguing. even_new-id - for those of us who were little kids in the 70s, this is all new to us. And yes, 30 years later, the OBGyn's I saw were so callous, their treatment of me was harder to deal with than the miscarriage itself. I have dozens of emails from other women who experienced the same thing. Every topic is all the rage every few years - but that doesn't mean women have stopped miscarrying. Thanks for the feedback - I've got some new ideas brewing from the mix here. |
| Editor1 | Posted – 1/14/2005 11:47:15 PM | show profile I have had similar things happen. I spoke to a friendly EIC about a cool technology story I was working on. I asked her to keep it confidential. Of course she was welcome to ask me more about it, or even ask me to write a piece. About 3-4 months later it's a cover article. She knew I was an expert on the subject and never said a thing. Let's face it: there's a constant competition for fresh and trendy content and a general lack of morality when it comes to preserving the exclusivity of ideas. These people probably go through a 2-second inner dialogue in which they say, ''that idea won't be unique for long'' and then eagerly latch on. |
| eriksherman | Posted – 1/15/2005 9:01:10 AM | show profile >> Well, in just the right number of months later, they came out with the exact same article - just another 30-something woman who took a cross country trek. Can't remember all the particulars but it was so close that it felt like they found one of their own writers, sent her out on the road, and she whipped up the piece. << While there is idea theft that happens, you might be surprised how often such things occur purely by accident. Here's an example. A colleague of mine, highly experienced in working with major magazines, sent a detailed pitch to a title. She included a lede, structure, etc. As soon as she hits the send button, she goes out, stops by a news stand, and picks up the latest copy of the magazine. There was the same article idea, a virtually identical lede, and everything else you'd expect in a pirated article. Yet there was obviously no piracy. So when things rankle, remember that sometimes it *is* just a coincidence. And sometimes certain ideas become common for some reason or other. I have a piece coming out this summer that's been sitting with Scuba Diving for some time (for absolutely legitimate reasons). It was a quirky idea, and between the time I wrote it and now, the editor told me that there have been a large number of writers all pitching the same idea. Want to bet that there will be people swearing up and down that the magazine stole the idea? Again, I'm not saying that there are no cases of unethical actions on the parts of editors - clearly there are. But it's better business to go through the following steps: 1) I might not be the only one with the idea. 2) Some other editor might have commissioned something similar. 3) The editor could have forgotten all about my pitch, gotten into a different frame of mind, and then received a similar pitch. If you're convinced that a given editor or publication is not on the up and up, take the ideas to the biggest competitor. ------ Author of "Geocaching: Hike and Seek with Your GPS" - hidden at a bookstore near you... |
| even_newer-id | Posted – 1/17/2005 9:27:56 AM | show profile ''newer id, did you miss the article in the NY Observer just recently? Inwhich it mentioned the gyono/obgyn who carved his initials into a woman's abdomen?'' Yep, I did miss it. and hearing about it now, it hardly strikes me as a trend story. what's your point? that he's representative of more than his own crazy self? Or that his psycho behaviour was caused by the misogynistic streak present, in not so obvious ways, in all obgyns. sorry I'm not buying it. This mean male gyno story is soooo old even if you believe in it. It's been everywhere for 30-plus years. No one needs to steal it. It,s out there, everywhere. ditto the ''road trip.'' I mean for gawd's sake it's so common, it's a genre all its own. The eds at Oprah don't need to steal road trip story ideas because every second writer is always pitching them. From a writer's point of view, it's a great way to get free travel while navel gazing and making money. Frankly, I'm sure they're have even been piles of ''I took a road trip after my miscarriage'' stories. Anyone who thinks there road trip or miscarriage story idea has been stolen is suffering from not having read widely enough and wheel reinvention syndrome. My experience in 25 years in this biz is story idea stealing is rare becuz most writers don't understand how magazines define themselves and have a really hard time writing pitches that appeal to editors. On the other hand, story stealing does sometimes happen or variations of it. See the ''Calling all Freelancers: What would you do?'' thread. In those cases, when you do have a real concrete story idea/proposal stolen and can document, you can indeed take action, like going higher up the edit. chain and insisting on compensation. However, if you say your road trip or miscarriage idea was stolen you're going to be laughed right out of the office. |
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