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Topic: What do you look for in an online community?
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| greg b | Posted – 1/14/2005 5:34:48 PM | show profile Hello everyone— My name is Greg Bloom, and I’m the new community coordinator here at mediabistro.com. One of the tasks I’m looking forward to most of all is overseeing the bulletin board community. There seems to be a wealth of knowledge out here—and, of course, plenty of opinions. This brings me to what will be our first featured discussion topic of the New Year. (And many thanks to Heather Schwartz for moderating our previous, long-lasting feature.) I’m a longtime lurker of many different webboards, but I now find myself with a very different perspective on things, being at the front gate of a rather large and purposeful community. I’ve learned a lot about how mediabistro has grown and changed through the years, often in response to the ideas and interests of its members, so I thought it might be nice to hear thoughts on the subject from all of you. ------ greg bloom community coordinator/wecare specialist mediabistro.com |
| greg b | Posted – 1/14/2005 5:35:13 PM | show profile So... What are your favorite online communities? What is it that makes them so great, and what do you take away from them? By online community, I mean website, webboard, listserv, blog-cluster or whatever new thing just sprang up last week. What even constitutes an online community? Let’s hear it. ------ greg bloom community coordinator/wecare specialist mediabistro.com |
| brianvan0711 | Posted – 1/14/2005 7:10:13 PM | show profile | email poster What am I looking for in a community? Feather boas. And I'm in the right place. :) |
| zinny | Posted – 1/16/2005 2:05:47 PM | show profile I like the ASJA boards best, as writers name names (editors and pubs that are scary or fab), quote rates, and other info, in addition to having collective experience that's at a higher level than here are mb (the same newbie questions don't get posted every week, also a plus). It's serving a similar audience, but with a different purpose--I sometimes want to post a question here simply *because* I want it to be anonymous. |
| HellofromBrussels:) | Posted – 1/17/2005 8:34:47 AM | show profile HI, and welcome on board ! I like very much travelwriters.com and this one for the info and help from community members. |
| angeloy | Posted – 1/17/2005 11:00:06 AM | show profile - Salary and insider information like that ed1020 site; - Insider information about who pays what, including freelance payments; - Information about who stiffs who. [I realize this one may come with libel concerns, but perhaps people can scan bounced checks and post them?] - A preview post option for MB Forums; - Allowing XML tags in posts; - A FAQ section int he Forums so we can stop reading the same posts about email formats, how to get one's foot in the door to X, and others that pop up every week and have been answered many times; and - A weekly email newsletter on new job postings and other MB content. |
| greg b | Posted – 1/18/2005 3:01:54 PM | show profile minstrel-boy, some good recommendations there. We have actually been working on some FAQs for the bulletin board. I'd like to arrange it so that we begin the composition of the FAQs and then open it up to the boards for people to chip in. There are definitely a specific set of questions that this would hopefully address up front. As for the salary information, I am told that the much-vaunted salary survey results will be making their way into the public soon. Stay tuned... ------ greg bloom community coordinator/wecare specialist mediabistro.com |
| gideon711 | Posted – 1/18/2005 3:41:56 PM | show profile Greg, there's about a handful of boards that I keep up with on a day-to-day basis. A majority of them are web design/web dev. based because that's my area of interest. Two in particular are Sitepoint's forums (www.sitepoint.com) and Tutorial Forums (www.tutorialforums.com). Both offer tips to folks who range from beginners to vets. I find that Sitepoint is more helpful now, as Tutorial Forums is geared toward a younger crowd and those just getting started with web design. Sitepoint has specialized sub-forums for a lot of the ins and outs of the business. What makes a great community? The members. As an admin on a local music board, I can say first-hand that preserving knowledgeable, informed and humorous posters is the best thing you can do to keep a community humming along. I just started posting here over the weekend and MB's forums have already helped me quite a bit. Good luck! |
| HeatherSchwartz | Posted – 1/18/2005 4:21:33 PM | show profile Hi, Greg! Welcome on board and thanks for the thanks! The one thing I wish from time to time is that people were a little nicer on the board. You know, less snipey and ''snarky'' on some threads. I guess when people are anonymous that's what happens, and I think anonymity has benefits, too, so I wouldn't want to do away with that (even if you could). Maybe more MB staffers could lurk on the various threads and try to rein things in a bit when they get out of hand? Discussions can get hostile on here - too often in my opinion. Best of luck in your new job! |
| ja | Posted – 1/18/2005 5:20:42 PM | show profile It'd help to see THE LAST/MOST RECENT post, AS WELL AS the FIRST POST of any thread, so when writing a longer post like this, one can write intelligently and keep oneself on track. And spell check. Add spell check. And this, or something like it: ''This is a board (MB BBS) dedicated to the discussion of topics relating to journalism, reporting, writing, research, grammar, books, and all other things media related. It is a mixed board, representing both the client and provider of media content. The board is intended to be a balanced forum for discussion and interaction, where opinions of all parties are respected, but flaming, direct attacks on others and general stupidity is strongly discouraged. As such, we have tried to compile a list of do's and don'ts: 1) Thou shalt not post with a hidden agenda, nor knowingly post false information. Thou shalt not make assertions or accusations without stating their basis. Thou shalt use no racial or ethnic slurs. 2) Thou shalt not engage in flame wars or attempt to defame any legitimate contributor to this board. Thou shalt be fair and play nice, even if others don't. Though shalt remember that you are talking to real people. ( Sometimes the Internet depersonalizes our communications to the point that we become careless about how we speak. Ask yourself this question:''would I say this in a room full of people, many of whom I don't know?'') 3) Thou shalt think, before you post, whether your post contributes to a discussion or just would waste the time of anyone who reads it. When posting on a sensitive issue, write a draft, save it, do something else for a while, then re-read your message and make changes if necessary, then post. Put yourself in the other person's place. 4) Thou shalt not attack someone simply for disagreeing with you. Thou shalt not try to cut off opinions that differ from yours, or have like-minded people pile onto someone who states a differing opinion. 5) Thou shalt NOT refrain from posting an opinion just because you're afraid it may be unpopular. If you are in doubt about something you are considering posting, ask the [Moderator] about it via e-mail. 6) Thou shalt refrain from overuse of ''insider comments'' and ''private winks and nods''. Always consider how your post/thread will be viewed by those who have recently joined us. 7) Thou shalt TRY to be positive. Do a self-check on your own posts to see if you might be in a rut. If so, perhaps taking a break from posting is the right thing to do. 8) Thou shalt remember that the board is only as good as you make it, or as bad as you make it. The members get all the credit for making this a worthwhile place to visit. Of course, there is a responsibility which comes with that, and it is also the members which can make it a place that no one wants to come 9) If you post a thread, and it gets deleted, it means we meant to delete it. Do not repost it. 10) Don't pester the Moderator/Editor 11) Don't forget 1-10 12) Several of the forums have a ''minimum post count'' before you can start new threads in them. If you are new to the Board, you're just going to have to live with that. Try reponding to other people's questions or searching for your required info before asking/posting your own duplications. 13) We reserve the right to make fun of stupid people; so if you're going to come here and be stupid, be forewarned that we are going to make fun of you. 14) Nothing on this website, in whole or in part, may be copied or reprinted without the expressed written permission of the owners of this site. ja is the author of The Bible and until recently, served as VP Operations and Facilities at You Big Baby, a day-care center for adult infants in Albany, NY. He is writing a novel about that experience. He lives in a van down by the river. |
| nine-to-one girl | Posted – 1/18/2005 9:45:25 PM | show profile I look for ja. If ja's there, I'm there. Also, in just a tad more serious vein, moderated discussions tend to make an online community much better. Mildly moderated. Just enough to stop the baiting among oldsters and bullying of newbies, tease out salient points that have gotten buried, gently shut off the yapatrocious, etc. |
| limericks4all | Posted – 1/19/2005 2:21:43 AM | show profile Basically, my experience is that forums like this grow or die entirely on the luck of getting enough people with worthwhile things to say. What the forum administrators do is almost irrelevant past the initial stages. For the most part, I find when people try to moderate or guide these discussions, it usually becomes pretty lame. |
| nickwms | Posted – 1/19/2005 3:23:01 PM | show profile | email poster Copyediting bulletin board missing I wish I coud find a board that is dedicated to the issues of copyediting. |
| brianvan0711 | Posted – 1/19/2005 3:51:01 PM | show profile | email poster ja, I have violated commandment 7, repeatedly and determinedly. Someone just called me ''jaded'' yesterday, to which I replied with a 90-page thesis defending my position that it's not me, rather everyone in media is a burnt out, rotten monster who hates human life. In hindsight, I'm reconsidering my stance on the ''jaded'' thing. I'll have more restraint in the future, and say 10 Hail Marys. |
| greg b | Posted – 1/20/2005 1:23:31 PM | show profile I am wondering how many different sites you all tend to on a regular basis. A few other media-related forums have been mentioned here, but I know that I check six or seven totally unrelated forums on a daily basis. It's nice to have such different and separate resources, each with contributors who know a lot more in their respective fields than I do. For a would-be journalist, it greatly expands the fields of potential knowledge. It also makes it really hard to ever feel like you're the first to find something. ------ greg bloom community coordinator/wecare specialist mediabistro.com |
| caitlinkelly | Posted – 1/20/2005 3:15:03 PM | show profile WriterL, poynter.org and asja.org, and this. Each is very different, as are the ways that people interact. For me, MB is usually and consistently the least satisfying for several reasons: the flaming is consistent, bizarre and gratuitous; there appear to be very few authors, or those who are, willing to ID themselves to talk to and, overall, the level of professional experience appears low -- average age 25? 30? I doubt more than 5% of MB BB users have more than 15-20 years' media experience -- so we gravitate to other sites where we can talk to/listen to peers and people whose work we know and admire. There's also little tolerance here for, or interest in, more thoughtful conversations on content (vs. ''give me an email address''), which one can easily start and enjoy on other sites. The single greatest weakness is the nastiness -- I hesitate to ask for any help or advice here (despite giving a great deal over the years) for fear of being slagged. No, not fear, disgust or weariness. In contrast, one can count on finding empathy and smart advice on other sites like asja's members-only forums or WriterL where everyone must use their real name; no matter how aggressive or rude you want to get, hundreds of people will see it and your rep may or may not suffer as a result. Even avant-guild offers no such difference, in tone or expertise, despite its cost. If MB offered a section here for those who wished to shed their anonymity (would anyone, likely not), maybe that would alter the tone. Just because a lot of people come to this site does not make it a ''community'', a matter that has been discussed, as you know, many times here. ------ Freelance writer Caitlin Kelly, has written for The New York Times, Wall Street Journal, Washington Post and other publications. You can read samples from her new book at blownawaythebook.com |
| Mr. Complex Adaptive Systems | Posted – 1/20/2005 7:00:03 PM | show profile caitlinkelly: I'm going to take a wild guess and say the level of professionalism appears rather low on these boards because most successful people don't spend too much time posting shit on the Internet. I would think they'd split their time between working hard, and being with family and friends. Not getting into piddly arguments to pass the time. |
| angeloy | Posted – 1/20/2005 7:23:35 PM | show profile Caitlin, you are one of the most thoughtful contributors to this board, but you sound a bit condescending in your demographic assessment. Do you think mediabistro is trying to be like poynter? I think the suggestion of removing anonymity is interesting, but obviously people here are generally opting out of this. Would it become like a poynter community if MB requires real identities? I doubt it. It's too Manhattan-centric. The traffic would probably plummet, at least for a period of time. I've gotten decent advice on this board, but my bookmark is the jobs posting page, not this or the home page. If I had to identify myself, I wouldn't post here, and would lose interest. My user name is not so much for anonymity's sake, or because of what I say (I'm self-employed), but because I don't want to clutter my name queries on internet searches with bulletin board postings. (My name doesn't have nearly the presence yours does on the web, so results for my name woudl eb miore likely to show BBS postings as results.) You're also one of the regulars here, so why do you bother to come at all? Are you expecting it to change, or do you enjoy being one of the more thoughtful advice-givers on the board? Also, I don't consider the ''flame wars'' here to be particularly nasty. If you want to see real nastiness, go to Craigslist Rants & Raves. Nothing here comes close to that. In spite of our immaturity, people more or less behave themselves. My dos centavos. |
| mediaegg | Posted – 1/20/2005 7:45:04 PM | show profile < I'm going to take a wild guess and say the level of professionalism appears rather low on these boards because most successful people don't spend too much time posting shit on the Internet. I would think they'd split their time between working hard, and being with family and friends. Not getting into piddly arguments to pass the time.> I think Caitlin is right about the anonymity breeding lowbrow discussion or at least that is my experience (online since 1987). But Aspen, saying that most successful people don't spend too much time posting...well, I've encountered several successful writers on these boards already. We're all busy but speaking for myself, I just started participating and posting here because I live in Wyoming and am pretty isolated from other writers. And I have to admit I've gotten sucked into some of the ''off topic'' and ''off color'' discussions - we writers just love to express our opinions. I usually post with my signature once or twice and then as the thread grows, I stop adding it but not because I'm trying to hide. (See, my sig is down below!) And I always try to be a good girl and make sure my criticisms are about ideas, not people. But we all have our moments. I love an online community that allows self-expression, creativity, heated discussions but can rein things in when they step over the snarkey meter into personal attacks. ------ aliza sherman risdahl http://www.mediaegg.com/ |
| caitlinkelly | Posted – 1/21/2005 11:26:31 AM | show profile minstrel-boy, I don't mean MB should per se emulate poynter.org, (or others), which also has its own share of weaknesses. Poynter usually focuses on issues facing those working for newspapers or broadcast. So if you're an author or magazine writer, it's not designed for you, per se, although you can learn from their site, as I have. I do crave more places to talk to peers. It's nice to occasionally be helpful to others here, but I also need advice and guidance, and would appreciate deeper conversations in general -- without the inevitable punch in the face that so often seems to show up in such threads. Someone attacked me out of the blue on a recent thread with no provocation. It's absurd -- and it justifiably puts many people off this site, some permanently. AT, not everyone who is successful is too busy to want to see what's going on out there. I've heard from very senior people -- EICs -- who have been reading these boards and watching what we say here. I've learned a great deal on very specific issues here in ways that are elusive-to-impossible in other ways when you don't work in an office or other more social setting or with people whose skills you trust. Like Aliza, I work alone at home and, while not far from NYC, it might as well be for the isolation it imposes during my working hours. For those in office jobs, sure, it's somewhat indefensible to spend energy here on someone else's dime/time. For freelancers whose social highlight of the typical workday may be an hour at the gym or coffee shop surrounded by strangers, this BB and others, becomes our de facto water cooler, a place to stop by, chat or listen, have a laugh -- then go back to work. The beauty of online sites, when they work, is that they offer a badly-needed break for the at-home worker with few other colleagues to talk to, other than sources/editors, during a normal day. I've worked alone at home for eight years, which is great deal of isolation, albeit self-imposed. So, whatever else they do, on-line sites offer a place to ''meet'' others with similar concerns, interests and experience. Of course, I also seek out and meet colleagues face to face at a wide variety of other events, panels, conferences and other venues, but don't underestimate how isolated daily worklife can be -- successful or not. Even the Biggest Names still speak to people they respect professionally, not just family and friends. Are they here? That's the real question. ------ Freelance writer Caitlin Kelly, has written for The New York Times, Wall Street Journal, Washington Post and other publications. You can read samples from her new book at blownawaythebook.com |
| whosays | Posted – 1/21/2005 12:22:57 PM | show profile Poynter doesn't actually have a forum, per se. Or, if it does, it hasn't promoted it and I can't find it -- and I'm a Poynter sister from 'way back when. It does, however, have an area for commentary on journalism-related news, and there's occasional back-and-forth there. If there is, indeed, a threaded-type forum, could somebody give instructions for finding it off Poynter's home page? A board full of media bluffers offers nothing for me. That applies as much to the older posters as the younger ones, with an awful lot of people using opinion and long-windedness to cover up lack of meaningful experience. Sometimes the fakeness factor is so out of control here, and it does not seem to be limited to those using handles. I don't need an online community that's a piranha tank. Frankly, here, I veer away from posting in threads where certain people have posted. I have had experiences here with people who, when they learned my knowledge base was equal to or wider than theirs, turned into Tazzes, as if there could only be one in the territory. At least one of those nasties posted under a real name. One of the best things MB ever did was create that little political-rant section of the board to remove some of the off-topic idiocy from the profession-related boards. Major kudos for that. As someone mentioned earlier, most working professionals are too busy to waste time on the Web. So the cleaner the boards -- the easier to navigate, the easier to cut through the crap to anything that may exist here beyond the just-out-of-college level -- the better for people like me. |
| j.hodl | Posted – 1/21/2005 1:18:44 PM | show profile | email poster Some Good Ideas... Adding my two cents, I endorse several of the ideas presented above. I agreed that the site should get a built-in Spell Check feature. It would have time editing replies by those of us who jump into the MB Forum for a few minutes at a time during our normally busy freelance writing schedules. And a really like Minstel-boy's idea for a weekly e-mail of job postings, especially if they can be edited to get only the portion of postings that most fit the type of jobs one seeks. Cainlen Kelly had all good ideas in her posts, and I especially endorse the one about Forum posters using their real names. This would make the postings more civil and more constructive. One would be less likely to flame someone else (at times on a personal level) if they knew their name would be attached to it. I've seen too many Web BBs destroyed by people whose interest in not debating an idea or sharing information, but in anonymous vicious attacks on other posters' characters. MB's Forum has never gotten close to this level, but I wouldn't want MB to descend to it either. I am not bothered that many MB posters may have less than 10 years experience in writing. The younger one is, the more likely they are to be computer literate and know there way around the World Wide Web. I'm in my 34th year as a professional writer (most of it writing and editing trade journals) and am happy to help out younger writers when I can. One thing MB could use as a way for professional writers to post their areas of expertise. When I get calls from editors for articles on topics for which I am not well versed, I like to refer them to a writer who is more experienced on that topic. This way, the editor is more apt to call me back when he needs articles on topics for which I have expertise. An online listing of our areas of expertise will help us all get more work. ------------- Freelance writer Jim Hodl as written articles for Consumers Digest, Home Remodeling, Kitchens & Baths, Good Housekeeping and other publications. He also regularly contributes to nearly a dozen trade journals on topics ranging from appliances to gaming equipment. |
| greg b | Posted – 1/21/2005 4:38:59 PM | show profile Minstrel-boy—we actually have job alert emails. You can find out about them here: http://www.mediabistro.com/jobalert/jobalert.asp Jim—Is what you’re referring to different from the Freelance Marketplace? Anyone can go on and search for people by given fields, skills, regions, etc (of course, it costs money to be listed yourself). You could even recommend this in your (quite generous) attempts to match editors with the appropriate freelancer. You can find out about it here: http://www.mediabistro.com/fm/ In the meantime, I appreciate the comments here. We've had some back and forth up here about how to shore up the newbie stream a bit, and how to keep the topic wheels from just spinning. I personally would like to seem more linking to other content on the site--for instance, blog coverage, How to Pitch content, these things should have a stronger presence on the bulletin board as well. I believe that in the imminent redesign, some of these issues will be addressed. As for the issues of the relative level of experience of people around here, could it be reflected in the nature of the industry? There seems to be a very steep learning curve, and most of the people out there are climbing the tough part of it. ------ greg bloom community coordinator/wecare specialist mediabistro.com |
| whosays | Posted – 1/21/2005 5:06:58 PM | show profile re: your last question, greg, about the experience level. I don't think so. I subscribe to a professional writers/editors board where the experience level is high, and the subscribers continue seeking and exchanging information even though they've been in the business for 10-30 years or more. There's always something new to learn about markets, contracts, pitching, editors, sourcing, running your business better, etc. |
| eriksherman | Posted – 1/25/2005 5:07:00 PM | show profile ja, If you want spell check, go to www.iespell.com. It's a free (for individuals) add-on for Internet Explorer that will spell check what you type in the browser. ------ Author of "Geocaching: Hike and Seek with Your GPS" - hidden at a bookstore near you... |
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