FriendFeed
| Back to Home > Bulletin Board > Beginner Issues > Topic: Advice from hiring editors/publishers... |
Topic: Advice from hiring editors/publishers...
  Page 1 of 1   |
|
| Author | Message |
| kellylove | Posted – 1/24/2005 10:43:58 AM | show profile The issue of what hiring editors are looking for came up in another topic thread (http://www.mediabistro.com/bbs/cache/t18561_1.asp). If you're responsible for hiring EA, staff writers, etc., what are you specifically looking for when reviewing resumes/cover letters? How about during an interview? Any tips for the new folks starting out? Any specific peeves that could hurt a candidate's chances? What did the candidate you finally hired do/have to make you choose him or her? ------ Kelly Love Johnson writer/editor www.microfamous.blogspot.com |
| nycwriter1 | Posted – 1/24/2005 12:03:09 PM | show profile | email poster look for my recent post I couple of weeks ago, I posted a note here about what not to do.... I'm a department editor at a large circ. consumer mag. But here's what I look for in interns (who do get hired here from time to time, so I look at them as someone longterm, not just as an intern). 1. Cover letters that convey some understanding of what we do/what the coverage is like here--and their desire to do it. Even better if they can demonstrate a previous interest. No canned letters. 2. During an interview--I look for clear answers, signs that the person actually did their homework about the job/magazine. I look for enthusiasm for the actual job I'm hiring for... if you start talking about how what you really want to do is ''x'' but this job seems like a good way to get there--I'm not impressed. I also look for someone who can explain to me why they took previous jobs/internships. I look for someone who is smart and thoughtful--when I ask a question, does the person think for a second or pepper their response with lots of tangents or platitudes? Ex. Why do you want to work here? Thoughtful answer: I think that the magazine does a great job of xy and z (examples given)... is a good start if it isn't canned or the examples aren't from only the previous issue (shows you read the magazine, have thought about it). 3. The ''X'' factor--what makes me hire someone. If you get an interview, you're qualified on paper to do the job, your cover letter said something about you that made you seem like a possible fit, your clips were engaging. To get hired, it's smarts, enthusiasm, HUMILITY (this is more important than one might think), a demonstrated understanding of what we do and why we do it, future potential, and something else that I can't put into words. |
| brianvan0711 | Posted – 1/24/2005 1:12:39 PM | show profile | email poster Oi The advice is absolutely helpful, but the whole thing about the ''X factor''... I mean, we're talking about an EA here. I don't know how much ''X factor'' someone needs to take care of all the little tasks. There are requirements, surely, but one would think that a college education, a little computer proficiency, and some interest in the industry/topic matter would do. Besides, how much can you get to know me after a 1/2 hour conversation? Any big assumptions at that point about my attitude and personality are probably wrong. (similarly, any attempt by myself to pack in all of my good traits in a 1/2 hour conversation would most likely look very contrived) Overall, it says something about the industry - or maybe about education costs - if there's that much strict criteria for a starting position. After all, these jobs pay just $30,000 a year gross, with moderate potential salary growth. A college grad from a Northeast private school who comes into a fashion mag with 4 clips from her days at the school newspaper? Guess what, those clips probably cost her $100,000. That's right, $25,000 a piece. She won't even take home that much net pay in the first year of work. It's not that it's a bad thing to have a wishlish - surely every hiring manager on planet Earth would like to be able to count on having many accomplished candidates express their interest in open positions. But are there really that many entry-level candidates out there in publishing that are so ''perfect'' trying to break in, such that all of those credentials are taken for granted? If so, it seems most of those applicants have used their college money and time unwisely. They're not worth nearly as much as what they've spent. |
| writerandeditor | Posted – 1/24/2005 1:24:41 PM | show profile Brian, I think you're most definitely getting jaded -- not that I blame you. But you're reaching with the $25,000 per clip thing. No one goes to college just to write four clips. Factoring in a dorm room, some dining hall food, and, say, about 35 other classes, you could probably whittle that down to $1,000/clip. That's much better, right? |
| brianvan0711 | Posted – 1/24/2005 2:01:24 PM | show profile | email poster I could use the opportunity to riff endlessly on the excessive waste of a modern university education. *chuckle* But I don't want to troll. To put it briefly, most kids make the decision to attend college in order to receive preparation for their careers. Accordingly, when they graduate from college, they have a diploma, along with any other associated activities, accolades, and achievements, to show for it. And it cost them the entire tuition plus room/board to do it - unless you're like Ms. Spiers and you value the t-shirt at $120,000. I figure they wouldn't have spent that money - even, with room/board, not close to that much - if they did anything else. (They might have MADE money.) Yeah, I pin the total cost of college on the diploma, the internships, and the clips. And, frequently, I see the diploma itself having little value without the others. (in all industries! but that's getting o/t) Even state schools frequently exceed $10,000 a year now, and a lot of kids do the 5 year plan, so what's that? $12,000 spent per news clipping from the Albany Student Press? Aye carumba! (yeah, I'm long done with college, I suppose hindsight is 20/20) |
| foodlit | Posted – 1/24/2005 2:07:41 PM | show profile the X factor Brian, I've interviewed and placed literally hundreds of recent grads in artsy jobs, in publishing, advertising etc. You ask how can you know in 2 and a half hours about someone. Well, you won't like my response. You can usually tell in the first few minutes. Yes. I can size you up in a few minutes, and then the rest of the interview generally fleshes out the initial impression. Most people interview in much the same way. That X factor? It's there in the first few minutes and throughout. What is it? Above and beyond anything else, it is enthusiasm, energy, and passion. You make it clear that this job is something you are genuinely excited about, and that you will go above and beyond. We can tell by what you've done in the past and how you have approached things, if you have that 'make it happen' attitude. Sure, there's lots of mundane things to an exec asst job....but, keep in mind that they are not hiring someone who can just do that job, they are hiring someone that can go above and beyond, who is sharp and proactive, and who will make the person they support look better, and anticipate their needs. Not everyone can do that. All things being equal, when you have several final candidates, the one hired is usually the one who comes across as being the most enthusiastic and who will bring the most to the table. We had a receptionist at my last company, who is a shining example of this attitude. Not only was nothing beneath her, but she was always done with her work, and asking for more, and anticipating things that needed doing. Guess who set a record for the fastest promotion? Attitude is everything. |
| brianvan0711 | Posted – 1/24/2005 2:24:48 PM | show profile | email poster foodlit - that is some excellent advice. And you are 100% on the mark. Maybe an employer won't know everything about a candidate in the first half hour, but one can certainly show enthusiasm, energy, and passion to catch the attention of a recruiter or manager. I can attest to the effectiveness of this approach personally. --------------- Hey, at least the X factor isn't something such as ''likes the color red'', ''eats lowfat blueberry muffins'', or ''wears the most expensive shoes out of all of the candidates''. I was getting nervous there for a minute... |
| nycwriter1 | Posted – 1/24/2005 2:34:37 PM | show profile fashion isn't the only game... Hey Brian-- We're not all working at fashion mags.... And even at an entry level job, ''small tasks'' are not meaningless. I can't do my job, I can't put together my section, unless I have someone capable, smart and enthusiastic (and yes, all the basics of qualification, education and experience) helping me. Maybe some editors don't do this--but I make certain that the interns and project assistants who work for me know exactly how much I need them, I give them extra assignments (of the fun, writing variety) and I fight for them to be rewarded, be hired on staff or paid more when they do a great job and go above and beyond. Part of the X-factor is being someone who sees that what you're doing in the first weeks and months is part of paving the way to something bigger and better. We're not all out to find the cheapest person to abuse for the longest--some of us actually do care about mentoriing and helping people along in their careers. |
| nycwriter1 | Posted – 1/24/2005 2:39:14 PM | show profile PS... I've hired people with the not-quite-right experience and the right attitude... maybe part of the X-factor is showing that you're humble enough to know you're on the ground floor, but have enough promise to make a real investment in. I don't care about shoes or muffins or where you went to school. It's a sad statement that you've clearly run into many people who do. |
| whosays | Posted – 1/24/2005 2:57:53 PM | show profile Considering that EAs get promoted, and that they're integral to a work team -- oh, yes, they're judged as strongly as other applicants. Here are some factors for job hunters to consider. I hired for the newspaper sections I supervised until quitting a few years ago to freelance full-time (way more fun than supervising). TURN-ONS -- When I ask you to describe yourself, you've got it down to a minute or less. -- Tell me thoughtfully how you solved a workplace dilemma. I'm looking for your thinking process, your ability to recognize a problem and act, and how you deal with coworkers. -- Tell me how your skills benefited a previous employer. Provide measureable results when possible. -- Keep your cover letter short; let your accomplishments show on your resume. -- When asked about your special abilities, strengths, leadership, reasons you think you'll do well in the job, give examples of situations where you've shown these qualities. -- Know my publication and my city. Know something about current local issues. -- Indicate that you have a balanced life, you're not all work and no play. -- As someone else suggested, show humility; save the bravado for someplace else. TURN-OFFS (Sorry so many. These all come from applications I received.) -- Typos in cover letter and resume. Misspelling my name and getting my title wrong. -- An unprofessional-sounding e-mail name. Names like ''surfstud,'' ''hotbod'' and ''booty82'' reek of a certain profession, but it isn't journalism. -- Cover letters containing smiley-face icons. -- Cover letters not written in a business-letter format. (Apparently schools don't teach this anymore.) -- Letter written in all lowercase. -- Everything in the cover letter and resume is all about you - your dreams, your ambitions, your wonderfulness but nothing about what you've achieved for other employers and what skills you can offer my publication. -- Say you want the job because of the great hours or the publication's prestige. -- Have no relevant experience. (My favorite was an application for a copy editor, minimum five years' experience, from a standup comic with no editing background.) -- Tell me you're the one I've been looking for. -- If you just graduated, you did no internships. -- Put your resume and clips in a fancy-schmancy folder that won't fit into my files. -- Try impressing me with the name of your school. -- Tell me you expect to keep the job a year and then move on. -- Answer questions as if you've been rehearsing from a how-to-land-a-job manual. My standout hires showed maturity and thoughtfulness toward others during their interviews. They also showed, probably inadvertently, that their world was bigger than themselves. They were able to talk about what they hoped to bring to the job, which led to our being able to talk about how that would fit and what growth in the job might be like. Like it or not, chemistry plays a part in hiring -- not always so much the chemistry between the hirer and the applicant, as between the team and the applicant. For example, if the applicant has an abrasive personality and the team is cooperative, that's going to be a problem. I always set up interviews between each member of my team and the applicant, then asked my team for feedback. Also, I think most of us look (or looked) for a candidate who could bring more to the job than merely filling the description. I remember one opening where, at the minimum, I needed someone who was particularly good at open-page design, could kick the copy desk into gear and would be my backup. At the secondary level, I wanted that person to have cultural knowledge ranging from the 1940s to today, who could mentor writers and editors, who had a cheerful disposition and a helpful attitude, and who rarely got flustered. I was lucky enough to find that person, by reference from another editor, at a small paper in the Midwest. (Sorry for the long post.) |
| philomena | Posted – 1/24/2005 3:55:50 PM | show profile I can't tell you how many generic form letters I've received. One guy even had the nerve to write nothing but, ''I don't have time to write you a personalized cover letter, but trust me, I'm worth bringing in.'' Yeah, right. A surprising number of applicants don't do their homework. I once placed an ad on MB for a ''National Consumer Magazine'' (lousy, I know, but it was the policy of my publication to use the pseudonym), and many people would actually start their cover letters with, ''I would love to work for you at National Consumer Magazine.'' It would have been easy for applicants to examine the ad and figure out to which magazine they were applying. After all, the ad included a corporate email address, a street address, and a description of the magazine. I also saw a ton of cover letters that contained typos. Nothing will put you in the reject pile faster. Once you get an interview, stop by the Barnes & Noble and leaf through an issue, or at least look up the magazine online. Download the magazine's media kit; read its press releases. Get a feel for the editorial style. On interview day, show up on time (not too early, and certainly not late), be clean and neatly dressed (would you want to share a cube with someone who smelled?), and bring clips. These guidelines are especially true if you got the interview via a networking contact. Your behavior, good or bad, will reflect on that person. Finally, I don't really care if you lack experience in my publication's subject matter; but I do care if you show no interest in learning about it. |
| itsc2 | Posted – 1/24/2005 10:47:32 PM | show profile >>I mean, we're talking about an EA here. I don't know how much ''X factor'' someone needs to take care of all the little tasks. There are requirements, surely, but one would think that a college education, a little computer proficiency, and some interest in the industry/topic matter would do.<<< But there are thousands of candidates out there with college degrees, computer skills and some basic understanding of the industry. If you're looking for someone who you're going to spend the majority of your working hours with, you're going to want to make damn sure you really like and trust this person. Unfortuantely, I suppose, it comes down to ''fit'' otherwise known as ''personality.'' >> Besides, how much can you get to know me after a 1/2 hour conversation?<< Generally speaking, I think within about 3-5 minutes, you can rule out whether or not you think someone is a possible match for you. It's sad that finding a job is a lot like dating, but it is -- within a few minutes of meeting someone (say, at a bar) you know whether or not you're interested in seeing them again or not. (Granted, you might not find THE ONE in five minutes, but forunately, an EA-ship is not a marriage.) >> After all, these jobs pay just $30,000 a year gross, with moderate potential salary growth. A college grad from a Northeast private school who comes into a fashion mag with 4 clips from her days at the school newspaper? Guess what, those clips probably cost her $100,000. That's right, $25,000 a piece. She won't even take home that much net pay in the first year of work [...] If so, it seems most of those applicants have used their college money and time unwisely. They're not worth nearly as much as what they've spent.<< (First off, $100K is MODEST for 4 years of college these days -- think around $160 -- ridiculous, but true.) Maybe a grad won't make back their education for a long, long, but if you went into the editorial side of anything trying to get rich, you're clearly not that smart. You could say the same thing about a LOT of fields -- and considering no EA job requires any kind of master's degree, you're actually doing better than some others (hard to believe, but true -- you often can't be a social worker with just a BA and you're sure as hell not going to make back your tuition anytime soon.) And I don't know about you, but I got a LOT more out of college than the clips I got working at my newspaper (which, by the way, was more than four). Maybe cultivating some of that ''X Factor'' is part of what goes on -- being able to talk intelligently about different topics, having been exposed to different people, points of view, ideas, etc., etc. |
| brianvan0711 | Posted – 1/25/2005 11:08:05 AM | show profile | email poster itsc2 - yes, what you're saying is unfortunately what I've observed. There's nothing really bad about trying to seek a personality fit - this actually benefits the job seeker, too, if you think about it - but I have concerns about big egos and popularity contests. I'm not sure how many people are down-to-earth in this industry; it certainly seems hard to find those kind of people based on the media coverage. I hope I'm incorrect about that. I don't think anyone's trying to get rich except for our landlords. I can understand slumming it a bit the first couple of years in the industry, but those college loans take years to pay off. It's not like $30,000 goes up to $50,000 within the first five years (unless you get promoted quickly and often). The whole job search process has a lot of us absolutely despondent. Many of us get zero results. Rather than lash out at any one source of the struggle, I'm taking a step back, looking at the entire situation, and finding how the typical end result is often absurd. It surely does not have to be, but it is. Maybe something different works, too. FYI - I didn't attend college to be a writer. My college diploma is in a different field and is nearly 4 years old. I've been working since then. But I can write. And I can surely do office work. However, even with clips, everyone thinks I should go for one of those internships to prove my worth in the industry. Huh?!? It's not enough that I've been working for 3 1/2 years, or that I'll take a pay cut to work entry-level again for a pub - I have to work for free with no guarantee of ever getting a paying position?!? That's one thing that I feel is absurd but could be done differently. |
| vibbs999 | Posted – 1/28/2005 9:36:40 AM | show profile Unfortunately, I'm in a pretty similar position, Brian. I left a position as an EA to go back for my master's, and now I'm finding it impossible to get back into the industry without starting over as an EA. And no one will actually hire me as an EA because I'm overeducated and overqualified! I even did the work-for-free-at-an-internship thing while I was in graduate school, so I've got contacts at several different publishers. I'd love a decent Level 2 job (assistant editor), but the doors only seem to be open to EAs and hires-from-within. It helps to see what previous posters have said about interviewing/applying for positions. I know I'm doing a lot of things wrong, so I've got a lot to work on. |
| brianvan0711 | Posted – 1/28/2005 11:06:50 AM | show profile | email poster Yeah, I know what you're saying. It's a tough game to get into. One should think of it as a career path that resembles acting/stage performance more than anything else right now, because of the difficulties and the dues-paying that must be endured to even eke out a semi-decent living from it. Beginners should best resign themselves to picking up odd small gigs to break in - slowly - over a long time. But hey, no complaints. I can write any time I want to. Lacking any other tools, all I need is a pen and a napkin - even a quick jotted note can blossom into a 1,500 word essay. Learning how to sell your talents is the tough part. Compare and contrast with, say, web design, which is another one of my interests. There, the biggest problem isn't breaking in; it's getting your hands on the kind of resources that professionals use to deliver professional results at the amateur stage. The pro guys have thousands of dollars worth of software and equipment at their fingertips - the guy in his bedroom is trying to eke something out with a 6 year old version of Frontpage and Paint Shop Pro. You can go that route, but it takes you months to deliver the type of results that only need a week when you have the right tools available. |
| Page 1 of 1 |
|
