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Topic: Sharing and Caring or Every Man for Himself?
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| Author | Message |
| clairezulkey | Posted – 8/16/2005 11:58:19 AM | show profile | email poster The following anecdote was sent in by reader NYTimes real-estate reporter Joyce Cohen: ''When I worked at the Wall Street Journal I wrote a piece on things people threw at the wedding that were not rice. I mentioned three butterfly farmers in the article. Within days, I got a call from an editor at People magazine asking which butterfly farmer would be best to do a story on, so I gave him some contact info: they ended up doing a huge feature on this guy. Then, of course, I wondered whether I should have asked for something -- like a check or byline -- in return. I find that people are very different in their willingness to share information. For me, the difference involves whether they are direct competitors or not -- in other words, whether it is disadvantageous for me to share.'' Would you share information like this with another writer, or are you competitive? When is in a writer's best interest to be in it for him/herself, and when is it good to share the wealth? ------ Editor of MBToolBox |
| monicamarie4 | Posted – 8/16/2005 5:47:45 PM | show profile This is interesting And, I am a person who shares often with my friends and colleagues. Still, I can understand when it comes to total strangers (even on this BB), it is tough to dole out info at times. Some people expect it. And, others -- well, who knows what their credentials are or how they use the tips people give so generously. I'm becoming less likely to help those who demand, or who have not proven themselves to me. I don't think it is awful to guard material, but I also think we have to trust our gut feelings and be free to share when we feel that it is a good thing to do. There are people whose work and tenacity I admire very much and I don't think I am opposed to sharing info with them. Other times -- and, often one gets burned, -- there are important lessons to learn, about giving too much info away. One of the most helpful and least selfish individuals to ever post on this board is Sheila Mullen. She really could be declared the patron saint of all freelancers and the un and under employed.. She asked for nothing in return -- just gave of herself time and time again. Often, people acknowledged her with thanks on the board, but just as often, there was silence. I hope people emailed her off the board to show their gratitude. Somehow, however, I don't think she helps to get any thanks. She is just very generous. I don't think I am like that. I know I am NOT. Thank you is so important. So is please. Thanks. when given in a heartfelt manner mean everything I wonder if some writers who ask for help, ever do say thanks. I doubt if I would have taken a check for the butterly info, but damn, how nice to be appreciated. Yet, again, I don't know if I would have given that info away to a complete stranger. Someone whose work I know and trust, perhaps. Damn, I'm rambling. I'm starving and dinner is defrosting Sorry for the long winded post. I am interested in what others have to say. |
| The BPM | Posted – 8/16/2005 6:11:15 PM | show profile Good question Claire. I get reporters from all over North America asking me stuff. In fact on Friday a reporter wanted some data that is extremely valuable to my company that I'd spent hours compiling. I shared this because the guy was just some beat reporter in New Hampshire and needed a break. I'll get nothing for this except karma. That said, he's not a competitor who covers the same beat as me. So if they're not covering my beat I'm open and friendly but if they're the competition I can't wait to beat them into the ground on every big news break. ------ www.wordnbass.com book and music news |
| limericks4all | Posted – 8/16/2005 10:48:08 PM | show profile The names of the three farmers was already in your story and available to anyone, and any journalist could have found their contact info at that point without your assistance. So you really gave them nothing more than your opinion on which of the three was most interesting. I can’t imagine any publication would pay you for that, or give you a byline. What you did strikes me as the kind of routine, professional courtesy that most journalists would do for another. The different is if someone asks you for proprietary information. “Hey, you have any more ideas for good stories for us?” In that case, it is reasonable to request payment. |
| clare04 | Posted – 8/17/2005 8:54:40 AM | show profile info I agree with Limericks. This information isn't being shared, it's out there. If People - if especially People - wants this they will get it some other way; the reporter was first port of call. This is a jello example of what this thread might be trying to address about journalism. Not sure, tho. Such as something concrete like the times a reporter from your competition hands you the jist of the speech you just missed at the French ambassador's residence. Issues of career/nepotism information-sharing are the other large tandem off-shoot of this discussion, I would guess. |
| clairezulkey | Posted – 8/17/2005 4:13:58 PM | show profile | email poster How about not just content, but contact information, etc? Say you have an editor at the New York Times that you work with a lot and know is cool. Would you share that contact name with other writers? Only writers that you know and trust? Or that's the kind of stuff that you not prefer not to share, so to keep competition to a minimum? ------ Editor of MBToolBox |
| The BPM | Posted – 8/17/2005 4:44:35 PM | show profile I've shared both proprietary information and contacts with other journalists who I have a good relationship with. They interview me sometimes as a 'source' which can make the whole media thing a bit inbred. Bottom line I ask them to cite me or my company if they publish proprietary info. This happened with a well known journalist, who would often interview me and cite the info to 'market watchers' which was BS. I asked him to attribute properly in the future and he never called again. His bad. Sounds like your example is a case of providing a lead, which is never something worth a byline or payment. It's just a courtesy you can choose to give or not give. ------ www.wordnbass.com book and music news |
| clare04 | Posted – 8/17/2005 4:51:56 PM | show profile referrals etc Claire, again think this is the kind of thing that anyone can find out and pursue in their own right if they want to. I have to admit when I was (much) younger, I had a writer friend that used to ask me who exactly was editing these stories I was doing all the time. I used to dodge the question the same way every time. Now, I wouldn't really care a fig. The bottom line is you can't really get anywhere at all if you can't figure out how to make contact with an editor by yourself. Referrals won't make someone deliver something good in the end, and in the end it works against you as a journalist to refer someone to someone else on any other basis. It reflects on you, in other words. |
| brianvan0711 | Posted – 8/17/2005 5:12:34 PM | show profile | email poster I've heard this argument in the past when people start talking about contacts, sources, pitching, and career searches - that, if you don't have the nerve to call an editor for what you need to know/find out/offer, then you're probably not a capable journalist. The problem with this theory, which otherwise seems perfectly reasonable, is that it doesn't address the separation between your work and your career. Normally, journalists seem to be trained to proceed with confidence, perhaps boldness, in the interest of gathering information and assistance. But this same sort of ''boldness'' is highly discouraged within the industry. You might not care if you annoy a source with a particularly aggressive question, but you would certainly care if you annoyed a potential employer with aggressive e-mail messages to try to land a job or land a story assignment. And editors seem lately to have no tolerance whatsoever for anything bold on behalf of a journalist. Sure, some editors say that they do appreciate bold candidates and freelance pitches - but there's enough griping about unsolicited commentary/proposals in the industry such that it would give anyone pause to attempt anything that might cross that thin patience threshold. And, of course, most media companies have a policy of routing such communication attempts through PR, HR, or ''slush-pile'' email accounts, and if you violate their intentions you're not on their good side anymore. So the mixed message is ''Don't be afraid to talk to anyone - but don't dare talk to me if I haven't spoken to you first.'' Meh. |
| activeverb | Posted – 8/17/2005 5:38:51 PM | show profile I think the bottom line is much simpler: No one likes having salespeople call, even if they eventuallly want the product. And when you are looking for a job or pitching an article, you are a salesperson. It's a mistake for a salespeople to take as gospel what potential customers say about how to sell to them, because what they'll always say is don't bother me. <<But this same sort of ''boldness'' is highly discouraged within the industry. You might not care if you annoy a source with a particularly aggressive question, but you would certainly care if you annoyed a potential employer with aggressive e-mail messages to try to land a job or land a story assignment. And editors seem lately to have no tolerance whatsoever for anything bold on behalf of a journalist. Sure, some editors say that they do appreciate bold candidates and freelance pitches - but there's enough griping about unsolicited commentary/proposals in the industry such that it would give anyone pause to attempt anything that might cross that thin patience threshold. And, of course, most media companies have a policy of routing such communication attempts through PR, HR, or ''slush-pile'' email accounts, and if you violate their intentions you're not on their good side anymore. So the mixed message is ''Don't be afraid to talk to anyone - but don't dare talk to me if I haven't spoken to you first.'' Meh.<< |
| clare04 | Posted – 8/17/2005 5:51:02 PM | show profile brian, your points are real. You are talking about corporate ethos in companies, which now applies to media companies. A former news service with no voice mail is today a media corporate entity with intranets and HR commandos. It's truest, surely, in America, too. Maybe though, this will foster more creative journalists such as the gonzo and citizen journalist we have in our midst at the same time. But I think what you are talking about is the larger dumbing down of the journalist. Or attempt to. I read a commentary by a veteran journalist in the UK the other day who talked about the same stuff that has been talked about on this board. Taking it even a more sinister step further to where journalists today who are independents challenging something will be investigated, harassed, taken to court, prison and etc. Like that story last week of the woman journalist-expert reporting about some Arab interest that threatened her or tried to stop her, who sued for her own libel protection in the UK due to their laws, which ironically hamper the fourth estate at the same time as protecting the individual's privacy. I think it said in the story that she was spending all her time dealing with lawyers and crap and not doing the stories or earning her living. |
| j.hodl | Posted – 8/21/2005 4:58:48 PM | show profile Number One You forgot one thing, Claire. When People was asking you for info, you should have asked them for info... like who at the publication can you pitch some freelance articles. I've done that a few times, and its paid off handsomely. Mags are always looking for writers who can bring new angles and ideas. And since they like your Journal article, you already had one foot in the door! |
| mms | Posted – 8/21/2005 9:33:46 PM | show profile Claire, I had a similar situation happen about a month ago. Someone working on a documentary about gambling called and wanted information about one of my sources. I declined because I don't give out source information to people I don't know. I value my sources and I don't think I should be passing out their information even if they would not care. I won't be able to keep track of who does and doesn't want to be contacted. There are some exceptions, but not many. This particular source was unlisted so I felt a special obligation not to share his information. I politely explained my reasons and mentioned some key parts in the story in the hopes that they would remember how to research. If you have already wirtten a story then most of the work is done for them. They might have to (gasp) open a phone book or google search, but that is simple reporting. |
| sheilamullan | Posted – 8/30/2005 11:07:36 PM | show profile hi - Monica Hi Monica, that was a very nice compliment and thanks! Sheila |
| zookeeper | Posted – 8/31/2005 7:27:33 AM | show profile Monica is not the only one who has noticed, Sheila. I don't post that often, but I've noticed how helpful you are and always enjoy reading your posts. |
| clairezulkey | Posted – 8/31/2005 5:00:09 PM | show profile | email poster I do believe it's karma. Share the wealth, gain the wealth. And not that I keep track but when people hold out on me for basic information or advice, then they're not first on my list to help out when I have helpful information. ------ Editor of MBToolBox |
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