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Topic: PLEA TO ALL JOURNALISTS FOR HELP AND ADVICE (ASAP) RE: STORY
| Author | Message |
| cswriter | Posted – 2/9/2006 7:39:59 PM | show profile A vibrant 88 year-old male who was walking 5 miles a day and traveled extensively in his own car and by bus was diagnosed in Sept with a broken hip which was successfully repaired. Prior to surgery he appointed a close friend as health care proxy for him and to exercise concern for his 87 year-old wife of 53 yrs who suffers from Alzheimer?s. In Jan and Feb, he suffered two setbacks respectively, out of whack electrolytes and a bowel resection, from which he recovered to the amazement and delight of his physicians (he was independently walking until now). Zoloft, used to combat depression after the hip surgery and terminated upon each hospital admission, has now caused him to have a death wish. Hospital administration allege that the authority of the proxy was revoked. He and his wife, who was placed in the hospital as a social admission, are now incognito. We think this is a cover-up for malpractice. What?s the best angle and for whom? |
| NYer | Posted – 2/9/2006 7:50:56 PM | show profile maybe it's just me, but this sounds like a lawsuit not a story. I'd find it more compelling as a story if this was part of some bigger theme--Zoloft causing death wishes in many people, not just this one; some bigger pattern of problems involving this specific hospital. I also don't understand what you mean by the patient and his wife being incognito. But to sum up: I expect there are thousands of malpractice cases in the US each year. Why do you think this one (if there is even a malpractice suit here) should interest readers generally? |
| cswriter | Posted – 2/9/2006 9:04:43 PM | show profile Since the health proxy is allegedly no longer valid, nothing can be done legally. Re: Incognito. The hospital kicked the proxy, myself, and another long-term friend out of the hospital and simply deleted the patient's name from hospital records. We brought the wife in as a social admission since there isn't anyone to care for her. Her name isn't in the records, either. If you call up, the two don't exist as patients. Also, the patient was taken off of Zoloft ''cold turkey'' which I was told by two surgeons, can cause even further and more severe depression. Isn't their disappearance a story, even for local papers? The doctor claimed the patient of sound mind. Supposedly he said, ''Leave me alone.....I want to die.'' A man who is depressed and suicidal is not of sound mind. Does this make more sense? |
| NYer | Posted – 2/9/2006 11:13:50 PM | show profile ''Does this make more sense?'' In all honesty, no. Whether there is some legal claim doesn't hinge on whether one hospital says a proxy is valid or not. They may choose not to recognize it, but far as dragging this into court, if there's any argument to be made a lawyer still will. A hospital can't declare a proxy invalid, most they can do is make you take the issue into court if you want to make someone else enforce it and recognize it. Why did you take this man's wife back to the hospital where there was a dispute involving her husband?! So their ''disappearance'' is that they've vanished from the hospital database? Does that sound like an interesting story to you? On its own, it doesn't sound that compelling to me. An 88-year-old man has asked you to leave him alone and told you he wants to die? I'd say leave him alone. If he's not interested in your ''helping'' him, there is definitely no story (or suit, for that matter) far as I can tell. |
| clare04 | Posted – 2/10/2006 2:41:51 AM | show profile murky CS Writer, I am not sure if you yourself are a journalist or want someone to pick this up. I'm not sure that ceasing Zoloft would count for malpractice, would cover all the aspects of this somewhat murky account you are giving here - that sounds like a lot of social factors - or that this is a case of malpractice per se -- as much as of hospital negligence. Therefore the paper that covers this hospital on a regular basis might be interested in it, espec if the hospital has been in the news for anything negligent etc. and espec if recently or similar cases. |
| worm | Posted – 2/10/2006 9:25:15 AM | show profile cswriter--it sounds as if you are involved, that this is someone you care about. My recommendation is to talk with a medical malpractice lawyer. They have ways of getting the names of patients, even if they seem to have ''disappeared.'' It is impossible to totally erase a patient's stay. Too many paper trails are left. You may simply not be accessing the right one. If you talk with a lawyer, he/she can help you get the information you need to achieve satisfaction. Then, the story might be a personal essay about what it was like to fight the big, bureaucratic hospital and win. |
| activeverb | Posted – 2/10/2006 4:17:29 PM | show profile I agree with the others that you should consult a lawyer. If I was an editor and you pitched me this story, I'd be really wary. Here's what I'd ask: 1. Do you have highly respected experts (Harvard physicians) etc. who will say on the record that taking the patient off Zoloft in this way was reckless and against standard medical practice? 2. Do you have proof that the hospital deleted medical records? This is a very, very serious charge and will require more than just your say-so. Even with that, it sounds, at best like a local newspaper story (after a lawsuit is filed) or perhaps an anecdotal lead for a larger story on Zoloft rather than about this case specifically. If you are personal involved with this case, as you seem to be, I doubt many publications would allow you to write about this, except as many an essay that they would vet really carefully. Good luck. |
| cswriter | Posted – 2/10/2006 4:46:49 PM | show profile I'm a journalist too involved personally.''Why was the wife brought back to the same hosp?? With the health proxy allegedly revoked, the proxy can no longer be responsible for the wife, who has no relatives or friends to care for her, has Alzheimer's, and can't be left alone. As far as their ''disappearance'' being a story? Issues behind it are more signif. Hosp staff knows he?s depressed and suicidal (tried removing tubes in beginning). They claim he revoked the proxy. He?s weak and depressed. Sure. A man saying he wants to die and not to touch him says ?Remove X as my proxy.? Makes no sense. Even still, how could they think he?s of sound mind and oblige? And why no visitors allowed? They sent a social worker from Adult Protection Services to check up on his wife becuz he was afraid ?she isn?t safe in the community.? He?s never once asked for her and is very weak. This makes sense? What will they do with the body when he dies? What about the Veterans burial he wants? |
| cswriter | Posted – 2/10/2006 4:46:51 PM | show profile I'm a journalist too involved personally.''Why was the wife brought back to the same hosp?? With the health proxy allegedly revoked, the proxy can no longer be responsible for the wife, who has no relatives or friends to care for her, has Alzheimer's, and can't be left alone. As far as their ''disappearance'' being a story? Issues behind it are more signif. Hosp staff knows he?s depressed and suicidal (tried removing tubes in beginning). They claim he revoked the proxy. He?s weak and depressed. Sure. A man saying he wants to die and not to touch him says ?Remove X as my proxy.? Makes no sense. Even still, how could they think he?s of sound mind and oblige? And why no visitors allowed? They sent a social worker from Adult Protection Services to check up on his wife becuz he was afraid ?she isn?t safe in the community.? He?s never once asked for her and is very weak. This makes sense? What will they do with the body when he dies? What about the Veterans burial he wants? |
| cswriter | Posted – 2/10/2006 4:52:00 PM | show profile Oops. My sensitive computer posted my last statement twice. Anyway, I think a great story could be about what and who determines a person is of sound mind. Wasn't this the issue with Kavorkian? And it could hone in on this one couple, both 88, one who has become depressed because the anti-depressant didn't kick in, etc. And yes. Deleting names from hospital records and not allowing anyone to see the two of them is a serious allegation, but unfortunately in this case, true. Any time anyone calls the hospital up or tries to get a pass from the main desk, they are told neither of them are patients. |
| cswriter | Posted – 2/10/2006 5:03:36 PM | show profile Medical Records Deleted? Nope. Just names from the computer so that when anyone asks about them, they aren't patients. |
| activeverb | Posted – 2/10/2006 7:34:10 PM | show profile No question, this sounds like a really difficult situation for the people involved. But I think you will find this a really, really tough piece to sell. It's the type of material that may work because of the perspective and storytelling ability of a writer, but there are probably many, many similar stories that are more journalistically compelling. My advice would be to take off your journalist hat on this one, and pursue legal action if you think it's warranted. Good luck. <<My sensitive computer posted my last statement twice. Anyway, I think a great story could be about what and who determines a person is of sound mind. Wasn't this the issue with Kavorkian? And it could hone in on this one couple, both 88, one who has become depressed because the anti-depressant didn't kick in, etc. And yes. Deleting names from hospital records and not allowing anyone to see the two of them is a serious allegation, but unfortunately in this case, true. Any time anyone calls the hospital up or tries to get a pass from the main desk, they are told neither of them are patients.>> |
| cswriter | Posted – 2/10/2006 11:41:42 PM | show profile Activeverb I didn't feel that I should be the one to write this, but I know because of my compassion and the fact that I've been caring for this person for the past six months 24/7, I could probably pull it off. I think it's a very good idea to look into Zoloft, and as soon as I post this, will google it. I'm now really curious. Hundreds of stories similar to this one probably exist, but I'm always of the belief that if covered in a sensitive manner, it could be journalistically compelling. |
| argh | Posted – 2/11/2006 12:02:20 AM | show profile I know very little about these things, but isn't the fact that the hospital isn't telling you if someone is a patient there part of HIPAA? A hopsital isn't obligated to tell you anything about a patient who is there, and I actually think, if you're not a family member, they might not be allowed to say anything ... ? The whole thing sounds totally bizare to me, and if it is a story, I think you'd really need to clarify your pitch -- I'm beyond confused and agree -- probably more likely a malpractice suit than an actual news story. |
| cswriter | Posted – 2/11/2006 12:36:22 AM | show profile HIPPA itsc2: Just looked it up. From what I saw, it refers to patients' personal medical information only (i.e. disclosure), not failing to tell visitors a person is a patient in their hospital. |
| activeverb | Posted – 2/11/2006 2:59:28 AM | show profile There have been thousands of lawsuits filed over so-called Zoloft withdrawal, which has been pretty heavily covered in the media over the past few years. The first I remember it being mentioned widely in the press was about 10 years ago in regards to the Phil Hartman murder/suicide case. There have also been Zoloft suicide class action suits filed. Most of the focus to date has been on the effects of this class of antidepressants on children, though there have been reported suicides in all ages. The coverage seems to have crested in 2004 when Glaxo, which makes a similar drug, settled with NY district attorneys over their charges of the drug causing depression in children. If I recall correctly, Glaxo's stock price actually went up after the case was settled. That's not said to dissuade you in pursing the story, but you should be aware that this is pretty heavily covered terrain. Good luck with everything! << Posted ? 2/10/2006 11:41:42 PM | show profile Activeverb I think it's a very good idea to look into Zoloft, and as soon as I post this, will google it. I'm now really curious. Hundreds of stories similar to this one probably exist, but I'm always of the belief that if covered in a sensitive manner, it could be journalistically compelling. itsc2 Posted ? 2/11/2006 12:02:20 AM | show profile I know very little about these things, but isn't the fact that the hospital isn't telling you if someone is a patient there part of HIPAA? A hopsital isn't obligated to tell you anything about a patient who is there, and I actually think, if you're not a family member, they might not be allowed to say anything ... ? The whole thing sounds totally bizare to me, and if it is a story, I think you'd really need to clarify your pitch -- I'm beyond confused and agree -- probably more likely a malpractice suit than an actual news story. >> |
| cswriter | Posted – 2/12/2006 3:00:56 PM | show profile Zoloft Activeverb: Thanks for the info. I wasn't in the U.S. 10 years ago when it was in the news, but while living abroad, Ritalin was a drug given to kids with ADD and even teens in the Israeli army, the latter of whom became suicidal, which got everybody up in arms. Without searching too deep about Zoloft, I found out that use, any change of dosage or even withdrawal can cause the person to hallucinatate or be delusional, and even lose self control and not be able to sit still to the point that they have the desire to ''jump right out of their skin.'' I witnessed it all. |
| clare04 | Posted – 2/12/2006 4:50:09 PM | show profile cont. Hi CS, you do seem personally very committed to this story. But I don't think it's at all clear what it is. Maybe you are too close to this. Zoloft, like all drugs, carries warnings of potential side effects. That's not the same as these side effects either occurring (most of the time they don't occur) or, if they did, of them being diagnosed and documented. You have to prove that in class action cases. Secondly, re. ''Any time anyone calls the hospital up or tries to get a pass from the main desk, they are told neither of them are patients.'' This doesn't mean they are not there and it doesn't mean, whether they are there or not, that they are not in their records - which they always will be after any period as a patient or outpatient - or that their records have been ''deleted.'' That would be illegal and electronically, how could it be done permanently - even if it was done, it's there to be recovered under sub peona etc. In addition their insurance company will have record of their hospital stay. You need to go to the administration, not the reception desk or switchboard. |
| cswriter | Posted – 2/12/2006 6:36:15 PM | show profile Hi Clare, I'm committed to the subject, not the story. If there is any kind to be written, it probably wouldn't be by me because of my personal involvement. That being said, according to what I read, the FDA ordered Pfizer to issue a ''black box warning'' on all patient product information (most serious warning system intended to warn consumers about the serious risks associated with an FDA-regulated product). I consulted two MD's who said that what I described is definitely possible (hallucinating, delusional, can't sit still....). As for records, I never said they were deleted, just that their names aren't in the system and neither he or his wife are allowed visitors. And since the hospital administrator is the one that threw everyone out and put a stop to all visits, it's pointless going back to her. I do have one contact through a friend, however, so after tomorrow we may be able to put a stop to this. If nothing else, this may be a springboard for something bigger: Doctor vs. Health Proxy: Who Determines Sound Mind? or Health Proxy Rights OR something dealing with Zoloft. It isn't the first time this has been a problem. Maybe that says something in itself! |
| clare04 | Posted – 2/12/2006 7:26:57 PM | show profile cont. Heck .. sure sounds like a small hospital if there is only one administrator you think you could go to. Well black box protects the company in a class action that a lot of people are trying to join anyway, since that proves the company took steps to warn consumers. Negligence is only where the drug was prescribed with known contraindications or wrongly prescribed after the black box started. So that a lot of potential plaintiffs do get screened out. That's what Zoloft's lawyers will be exploring in a class action. But your situation may well be that doctors kept prescribing this drug while side effects were showing - death wish - and when there was a black box. I guess that would be medical malpractice. Then of course, if they stopped without tapering it off, that would have to be something officially in the warning, would it not ? Is that in the black box ? If it's not and if it's something that is still contested in courts on a case by case basis then it's still up for grabs, I would think. I think maybe there's two things you are on about re. hospital - proving they were at the hospital and then kicked out from the hospital and then (thought I did see the word deleted) wiped from records ? re. zoloft - showing that the drug was stopped to the detriment of the patient. Having a death wish - how do you prove that ? (I'm not arguing that I dont believe you, Im just curious how that would go in a court - in a newspaper you could explore it. Again there is the legal side and the journalistic side to this situation. And they are not mutually exclusive.) |
| cswriter | Posted – 2/12/2006 8:54:54 PM | show profile There might be one administrator left from the hospital who might not be as bad as the rest of them (we've been ousted by most), but she's on the night shift, a time when none of us are around. If we get a writ of habeas corpus and/or other papers to help us out (the health proxy also is the Power of Attorney, which supersedes a proxy anyway...), then we may not need her help - assuming she'd even give it. As for the Zoloft issue: I haven't really looked into it that thoroughly. By mid-week, I should know where I stand. Medical malpractice or negligence might be an issue here. I wasn't the only one who has witnessed anything, either. Again, all of this makes me wonder about a lot of issues as I stated earlier, i.e. Who determines if a person is ''of sound mind,'' health proxy or physician? (Meaning of) Health Proxy.... |
| clare04 | Posted – 2/13/2006 2:16:51 AM | show profile CS Writer, one thing I think you are doing is second-guessing too much when you need some facts. I still can't follow your story. I mean if that administrator is on night shift then that's actually an opportunity to talk to that person - either call them then, or go there then if they will see you. Don't worry about whether they are on your side in future events. I looked up Zoloft and black box and it appears there is a warning for the very situation you are talking about. See below. http://www.ahrp.org/infomail/04/11/01.php OK, but this is a warning only. And you would have to substantiate your allegation as a reporter and prove it as a lawyer. A health care proxy is just someone you appoint to make medical decisions for you should you lose the ability to do so yourself. Such as giving consent for a treatment. This is just what I know, not what I looked up anywhere: But a doctor recommends treatment courses consults with patient or proxy and cannot undertake most treatments without the consent (verbal or otherwise) of a patient. In the case of surgeries etc. consent is a legally obtained/signed document. I would assume that someone with health care proxy power would be able to sign a consent form on behalf of the patient. I think a doctor may assume this role only when the patient is unable to give consent for whatever reason and there is no other proxy (relative etc) present. This would be a pretty unusual situation and not something that medical personnel would undertake without trying to find a relative or proxy first. It might happen in an emergency. |
| cswriter | Posted – 2/13/2006 10:39:15 PM | show profile Clare, Thanks for the web link. It's great information. As for the night administrator, we really don't want to make an already bad situation worse.Tomorrow we hope to get some legal assitance which might help, and I'm looking into getting the local assemblyman/woman involved. I know the story is confusing, especially which such a long string of posts. When I have an idea of which way things are headed, I'll maybe even figure out a story idea, even if the couple isn't the focus. You can always email me at csthejournalist@yahoo.com should you get curious. Again, thanks for your suggestions/help. It's definitely appreciated. |
| arewrites | Posted – 2/13/2006 11:27:19 PM | show profile If you've been caring for this person and have a personal connection to the story (and an agenda, as you clearly do) you have no business writing the piece as a journalist. You want to write an essay about it, fine. You want to talk about what you think, fine. But you're in no position to write an objective article here, as is clear from your postings. As for your allegations, which are pretty serious, you'd have to come up with some really good, solid evidence -- not just accusations -- for anyone to take this story seriously. I don't see much here in that regard. |
| clare04 | Posted – 2/13/2006 11:41:47 PM | show profile cont. CS, it sounds like really you are participating in something that is yet to play out. So you may as well stick to your role as participant and then assess how things work out afterward - and what kind of story it actually is. Keep us posted! |
