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Topic: How Long Do I Give New York?
| Author | Message |
| Comma Chameleon | Posted – 6/7/2006 12:22:42 PM | show profile Pardon the desperate tone. I'm just extremely frustrated. I've worked in publishing for over a decade, however, my "impressive" national experience numbers about 7-8 years at this point. In over a full year in New York, with good credentials and references, a resume/cover letter package that's been revamped by professionals, and networking like a maniac, I have gotten little more than sporadic freelancing and temp gigs and maybe four interviews with magazines. I have no spouse, no financial safety net, no health insurance, nothing. I am looking welfare squarely in the face while reading postings from people with no experience (save an internship) who are wondering what to wear for, say, their Hearst or Conde Nast interview. And I just got a rejection letter from a BOOKSTORE. At this point, I have a feeling even Target would bypass me for a stocking position. I'm only 35. How long do I stick it out here waiting for the big break? How do I support myself in the meantime? |
| janbrady1 | Posted – 6/7/2006 1:18:32 PM | show profile I totally understand your frustration. It's a tough market out there. It took me just over a year to find my current job, and I was looking while I had another job, which I know is easier than looking while you're unemployment. Which brings me to my questions: Why did you come to NY in the first place? Did you leave a job to come here? Did you come here for a job that didn't work out? Where did you come from? And could you consider going back there? NY is a tough nut to crack, and I can't say it's worth it to stay here if you are facing welfare. |
| clare04 | Posted – 6/7/2006 2:45:16 PM | show profile a while longer I was just reading a newsletter that said that "mid-levels" as they were called got hit worst by 9-11 and while that is going on 5 years ago, we can be sure it hasn't fully rebounded from stories like yours. So I think you need to stop comparing yourself with new graduates or whatever, since they were not so long ago having a really difficult time. Not that you are doing this at all but in general the amount of recent bashing of younger people who are just trying to make their way and sound as green on this website is astonishing. I went to New York prepared to freelance at the beginning and at 35 you have plenty of time to just keep doing that for networking etc and then your experience will suddenly kick in for you. Try to enjoy it despite the financial and professional comedown. |
| TVchick | Posted – 6/7/2006 2:50:40 PM | show profile | email poster I wouldn't give New York too long if you're struggling this much. I went through a big struggle of my own before landing a very decent job and an opportunity to attend college again. I struggled for a solid 2 years, with hardly any income or significant other or anything. Someone once told me that New York can't stand it when you're looking for yourself. This is not the place to do that. You need to come here with a package deal--job, insurance, an ability to afford a decent apartment, otherwise it becomes an enormously frustrating experience. You can't enjoy the city because you don't have any money and you feel that everything is conspiring against you. So my advice is--get out of here. You have a ton of experience that you can parlay into a suitable job somewhere else--Chicago, San Francisco, Boston, wherever else but not here. If its not coming to you, let it go. Take the path of less resistance. New York is the path of most resistance. This city is awesome and full of promise but sometimes it isn't your promise. Its not worth being lonely, broke, 35, no prospects and depressed. NOT for one day.. I lost a job I loved/boyfriend/apartment all in 6 months time and couldn't find any suitable way out. I lived in my friend's storage room in Brooklyn. You know what? I moved home for a year and it was the best decision. Everything came together in the end but at that time I was so lacking any opportunities I couldn't see straight. Don't wait for a big break, go get it somewhere else and if you really really really want to move back here afterwards than do it. But I have a feeling you won't. In about 6 months the allure of this town will be old news. I got over it and with all my love for New York, I had a hard time getting back here even with Columbia's acceptance I once so craved. So good luck and let this city go. You'll feel relieved more than anything else. Best |
| Cyrus | Posted – 6/7/2006 3:53:05 PM | show profile I can certainly understand your frustration. If it's any comfort, know that the most talented and "with it" people around struggle in NYC from time to time. On its best day, NYC is a tough place to make it and despite all the rosy numbers pumped out now, for many NYC's economy hasn't rapidly improved. One of the problems you'll always run into in NYC is the supply of jobs and a large pool of available workers. Competition is fierce, even when employers are hiring, so you have to really put on a game face to make it. On to some advice I hope you'll find practical. First, very few people get a "big break." Usually, any opportunity comes with an upside and a downside. If you're lucky, that opportunity will allow you to cover living expenses and have some left over to enjoy the city. Secondly, fixed costs in NYC are very high, and the fact that it's very, very hard to get in the ownership track in NYC means you don't enjoy economic upswings as much as you can in many areas of the country. Why? Because if you don't own your dwelling, your costs rise more too. Odds are, you're being rejected for a variety of reasons, which obviously I can't pinpoint without knowing more about your situation. But it's possible people perceive you'd be too expensive or you lack an element of experience they're looking for. Even now, employers can be choosy. As others have said, if you truly can't support yourself here, you should consider other options. I'm not saying buy a plane ticket now, but at least start looking at other jobs or locales. You'll find the money you'll earn in a smaller market will go a lot farther, so it could turn out to be a good thing. Earlier in my life when I was relatively new to the area, I always kept enough frequent flier miles in the bank so that I could leave. Why? Because, even though I wasn't a resident then, I frequently visited the city in the "bad days" of the 70s and said if things got that bad again, there's no way in hell I'd live here anymore. I feared after 9/11 that point might come, but thankfully it didn't. Back to that "break." Rather than focusing on securing that big one, try to get a series of small ones. If you're lucky, you'll pull enough together to start a good trend. Good luck! ------ Cyrus Afzali Astoria Communications www.astoriacomm.com |
| Bleak Spouse | Posted – 6/7/2006 7:05:13 PM | show profile Why would someone with 10 years of publishing experience looking for a publishing job move to SF or Boston? 1) NYC is where the publishing jobs are, and 2) SF is more expensive than NY and Boston is almost as expensive. Unless you're about to completely bottom out, just keep freelancing and continue applying for jobs and something will eventually come through. |
| Lotus665 | Posted – 6/7/2006 8:14:14 PM | show profile I wouldn't give up all hope yet. Perhaps set a deadline for yourself. But if you're temping and freelancing regularly in house, and they like you, you'll have first cut at job openings. They'd rather hire someone they know. When I was in New York and doing that, I had numerous offers for first dibs at full time positions. Now, I actually WANTED to stay freelance so I turned them down, but even though the economy has changed I think the regular temp/freelance scene is your best chance for "a" if not "the" break. One thing to remember is that while NY is supercompetitive, it's also the media capital of the USA. I now live in another city and it's much WORSE for me here than in NY because there's less media. Finally remember that the NY media scene extends to all five boroughs and very much increasingly, northern New Jersey. Are you open to working there too? Good luck. I just hate to tell someone to let go of a dream! |
| sheilamullan | Posted – 6/7/2006 9:47:03 PM | show profile a thought Hello Dharma: Sounds like a tough time, sorry to hear it. A few thoughts: 1/ Enable your email and I can send you some suggestions on places to look. 2/ Perhaps you want to consider joining the New York Financial Writers Association to network, get job leads, see our job board with full-time and freelance jobs listed. Sounds like you have good experience. 3/ I guess you really need to slash your costs. Perhaps, (assuming you're a lady?), what about trying Centro Maria on the W. Side for a place to stay, or the Brandon Residence for Women on W. 85th St. or the Evangeline Residence in the 30s. The Brandon won't take a resident without employment, but I think that means ANY employment. I think they're US$700 for a month for room and board (2 meals a day); they have a library, a practice room for singing, piano playing and so forth and so on. At least you'd have a cheaper place to hang your hat and company around to chat about frustrations. I'd try to get on their list right away. 4/ Look at it this way: whatever you decide, things can only get better. You remember those goofy little dorm posters people had in college? One of my friends had one that had a little kitty-kat hanging onto a rope, and the slogan was, "When you're at the end of your rope, tie a knot and hang on." 5/ Medical care: I understand from a friend that St. Clare Hospital in the 50s, West Side, will help people on an ability to pay basis (a friend needed some care and was a student, and they let her pay a very cheap rate.) best of luck, Sheila |
| joskilove | Posted – 6/8/2006 11:08:43 AM | show profile | email poster I understand... Dharma, I certainly understand what you're going through because I'm in the same boat. It's just so frustrating in this city because you know that you qualify for so many things, but the job search is a haystack needle. What's worse is nobody can seem to give out advice that is actually useful. I've been out of work for an entire year, except for a few freelance assignments...and now those seem to have dried up. The absolute biggest thorn in my side is that even when I network, people ignore me. Right now I feel like coming to New York was a waste of six years of my life. I'm sorry if this post made you feel even worse, I just needed someplace to vent. So at least you can take solace in knowing you're not alone. |
| dribbledrive1 | Posted – 6/8/2006 11:15:22 AM | show profile In my experience, most people really don't network. What they do is scramble around looking for leads when they need a job or gig. Networking is really what the word says -- building a network of colleagues and friends over time by staying in touch with people, sharing information, helping each other out, or just shooting the breeze. The absolute biggest thorn in my side is that even when I network, people ignore me. |
| Comma Chameleon | Posted – 6/8/2006 12:33:10 PM | show profile | email poster Thanks to everyone for your thoughtful messages. To answer a few questions: I am already only paying $650 a month to live in Brooklyn, and I have a dog. I think that disqualifies me for special women's housing. I used to live in L.A., which is where I got the bulk of my experience. I won't put the company names here, but I worked at a major entertainment Website. Then I worked for a major gay and lesbian magazine. When I had three family members die on me last year, I decided to come back East to be closer to my family, as the folks aren't getting any younger. I figured I'd get some kind of a publishing job here, but the only thing lined up right now is two weeks' freelance copyediting for a magazine in July. Better than nothing, but I can't possibly support myself with this sporadic work, especially since I now owe my parents for two months of rent payments. I really don't have the money right now to even consider joining any freelance writing associations, and unfortunately I have no experience writing about financial topics. If anyone has any ideas, feel free to e-mail me. I know I must sound a little desperate, but, well, I guess I am. Thanks again to everyone for all your input. |
| JCH | Posted – 6/8/2006 12:43:08 PM | show profile | email poster How about temping in the meantime? It's not glamorous, but for $18 an hour, it's worth it. I would say better than bookstore work. And then at least you'll have a steady income and you can continue to send out resumes and go on interviews. NYC IS a tough nut to crack -- incredibly tough. I think perseverance is key. |
| Comma Chameleon | Posted – 6/8/2006 1:18:50 PM | show profile | email poster I'm completely open to temping and have registered with numerous temp agencies. I've gotten an assignment here, an assignment there, but that's it. And the bookstore didn't even give me an interview. This is why I'm so incredibly frustrated. I feel like I'm doing absolutely everything I can do to no avail. Thanks for the suggestion, but it's one I'm already trying to do. I think even the temp jobs are going to all the new college grads. I'm not picky at this point; I'd clean the toilets in the Conde Nast building if they'd actually respond to my application. I'm so not above answering phones, stuffing envelopes, filing, making sandwiches, dog walking. But even when I write the most thoughtful, personal cover letter, nothing's happening. And then I see typos in every magazine I read, or worse, some stupid kid plagiarizing or fabricating parts of stories. And I can't even get a proofreading gig at a printer. WTF? |
| clare04 | Posted – 6/8/2006 1:36:25 PM | show profile .... >>>> re. And the bookstore didn't even give me an interview - that's because you are not what a bookstore wants - they want a 21 year old who will lift and stack 50 lb of books for $7 an hour - or maybe less. (just commenting on that because you keep citing that one rejection as if it's the last straw about the city of New York or something) |
| overthehillwriter | Posted – 6/8/2006 2:10:51 PM | show profile | email poster I am sorry for your situation. What I don't understand -- and hear so much of on this board -- is staying in a town where opportunity is so scarce. TO me it's like mining diamonds in South Texas, or trying to grow grapefruit in Maine. Maybe the thing to do is to go where the jobs are. When my spouse got out of school with a teaching degree, there was 1 job for every 100 applicants in the part of the country we were from. So we sold the house, packed up the kids, relocated across the continent, leaving kin and all things familiar, so he could pursue his love of teaching. At great personal cost, we later made another move so our kids could attend better schools with more opportunities. I wouldn't go down with the ship on New York. If the question is, How long do I give New York? as if she's an old friend you're hoping will come through, keep in mind the cynical book title, "(S)he's just not that into you." Look after yourself, and go where the work is if you need to. And the very best of luck to you. I know many people on this board can identify with your plight. |
| Cyrus | Posted – 6/8/2006 2:41:21 PM | show profile The thing that makes that decision so tough is because in number alone, there are many more options available in NYC for certain industries than there are in Texas, or wherever. It is, to some degree, like speculating during a rush. People know that it may be hard to strike it big, but they also know some people have done it, so they ask "Why can't it be me?" I have said many times that I personally would have never moved to NYC without a job already in hand. Since I did that, I got relocated for free, 3 weeks of paid hotel to find a place, and other perks that really reduced the burden. Had I had to pay that on my own, I'd have been thousands of dollars in the hole from the get go. I'd apply that rule to moving anywhere, though. I'd never move somewhere without a job or some sort of financial stability. It's just too risky, because it only takes one bad situation to wreck a person's finances for a good while. All that said, though, I recognize people have different reasons for the paths they take. With any luck, most of the time things work out to one degree or another. ------ Cyrus Afzali Astoria Communications www.astoriacomm.com |
| Bleak Spouse | Posted – 6/8/2006 6:05:18 PM | show profile Honestly, if you left a full-time job in LA without having one lined up in NY, you deserve the situation you're in. It's Darwin. Survival of the fittest. And the fittest don't make bad mistakes like that. The jobs you're being rejected for are going to people who plan ahead. So you should stop feeling sorry for yourself, stop making excuses, face the fact that you made a horrible decision, and that you deserve the consequences. |
| overthehillwriter | Posted – 6/8/2006 6:23:32 PM | show profile | email poster Everyone makes mistakes, though, Bleak, and everyone sometimes has the bottom fall out. Even you, perhaps. The thing to do is tell yourself, "I'm not going down with the ship. I'm going to make the necessary changes." Be proactive, if possible, not reactive. You already know the breaks you DIDN'T get. Now set about getting the breaks you CAN get. I know what Cyrus is saying -- the big pool of publishing jobs is in New York, it's true. But if you have skills and perhaps a degree or even two, maybe in the interim there's some safe professional ground you can retreat to, then take another run at the Big Apple but this time with a job in hand. Don't give up, or decide Darwin was right and you deserve this. Don't sit under some fig tree somewhere, moaning about things. PIck yourself up, dust yourself off, and start all over again. |
| Comma Chameleon | Posted – 6/8/2006 6:33:15 PM | show profile Bleak, it's a long story that involved three deaths. Have a little heart. You sound like George W. Bush. Maybe I should just go back to community college and all my troubles will be over. Oh, wait, I forgot--I deserve nothing but misery and pain. |
| happyfeet2 | Posted – 6/8/2006 6:45:53 PM | show profile I'm a native New Yorker--Brooklynite--as our my parents and grandparents. It takes MOXIE to make it in NY. I'm proud to be a New Yorker--struggling and struggling has only made me stronger and taught me more about myself that living in West Bumblef*** will ever teach me. I am ten times more independent than ANY of my friends in other cities. Am I poor as hell? Hell yeah. Do I question my life everyday? YES. Did I give up? NO. NYC is an incredible place--millions of people would love to even just spend 3 days in this amazing city. New Yorkers are tougher than almost everyone else. We get enough of a bum rep, don't continue to rub fuel in the fire and blame NYC for all your woes. Moving to another city wont solve everything. YES, times are down, but pick your head up, take a walk through the parks, really appreciate everything GOOD this city has to offer--it's THE BIG APPLE. Take a bite out it and enjoy! Once you perk up, everything else will fall into place... |
| JeanMarie | Posted – 6/8/2006 7:18:06 PM | show profile | email poster Maybe... You sound desparate. Desparation as a job-search tatic isn't good. Let's rethink: Temp gigs - How many places are you register? How often do you check in? With temp agencies it's all about who is handy when the job comes in. Networking - Like a maniac? Don't spend your time gathering with other unemployeds. Run in circles outside of publishing. Think outside the box. Freelancing - Freelancing is a 24/7 job in itself. If you were doing this right, you'd have little time for anything else. Magazines - I'll bet you're looking for your dream job. That's understandable, but that's not usually where we start (and yes you are just "starting" in NYC). Working in publishing - You don't say what you "do" in publishing, but your skills would certainly translate to other venues. What about B-to-B? corporate? non-profit? Bookstore/Target - They won't hire you. THey don't want to be your "job-while-I'm-waiting-for-a-better-job". In the meantime - If you're not working, what are you doing with your days? You should be working 9-5 everyday whether you're getting paid or not. What ARE you doing with your days? Lots of questions, I know. But, what you're doing isn't working, so answer the questions and try something different. :) ps. Finally, you need to talk to someone about what you've been through. Pastor? Counselor? Mentor? Life-long friend? You need to purge some stuff. |
| clare04 | Posted – 6/8/2006 8:14:17 PM | show profile spring clean Nice bit of prioritizing Jean Marie. Sort of like when I was in a rut in New York in early 2005 and I went and met a recruiter one time who was different - she told me: Hey, I got people in their 50s who really can't get anything ! That meeting really helped me turn my general handbag upside down, so to speak..... |
| overthehillwriter | Posted – 6/8/2006 9:42:26 PM | show profile | email poster What Jean said. When I left a full-time editorial job because my boss sucked SOOO bad, I had to start all over again. I worked 13-hour days learning how to freelance in the current market, read every book and online article about it, took pathetic little assignments and busted my butt. I still am, come to think of it. It would be EASIER if I didn't have a family to co-support and were I more nimble to go where work is etc. But the time I spend improving my marketability while busting my ass to get freelance work is well worth it. You sound down, but for some good reasons. Chin up, move forward purposefully, one step at a time. You can do this. |
| overthehillwriter | Posted – 6/8/2006 9:44:06 PM | show profile | email poster And Happyfeet, it's myopic to think everything west of NY is W. Bumblef___. I don't trash your decision to live in the Big APple -- it's everyone's hometown, for goodness sake. Cut those of us elsewhere a little slack! |
| dribbledrive1 | Posted – 6/9/2006 12:29:40 AM | show profile That's a little melodramatic. I've been a full-time freelancer for 15 years or so and usually work about 40 hours a week. < |
