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Topic: What's With the Stigma Against Trades?
| Author | Message |
| ClaraLee* | Posted – 6/19/2006 8:56:26 PM | show profile Having spent much of my career working for trade magazines, I still don't quite get the stigma attached to them. From what I have observed in my experience, they pay a LOT better than the "glamorous" consumer magazines do (currently, I'm making about double what someone in my position would likely make at a consumer), and many of them are looking just as good as some of the glossies these days. And this isn't sour grapes, by the way--I have been offered some positions on consumer mags but could not take them b/c the pay was too low OR the magazine content just too fluffy for me to deal with (the business audience is often smarter than the broad consumer audience). To me, moving from trade to consumer is a step DOWN in many ways--so why does the stigma continue? I'm just truly curious here. |
| dribbledrive1 | Posted – 6/20/2006 2:54:03 AM | show profile Well, this is coming from someone who has spent a lot of his life writing for trades, as welll as for tons of the top consumer magazines. The stigma comes for a lot of reasons ... (now there are exceptions to all of these, but mostly they hold) 1. Unless you are really into the industry in question, most trade magazines are boring to read. 2. Trade magazines aren't particularly well written. And most readers don't care, because they just want information. 3. A writer isn't going to get any notice for an article in a trade publication. You could do a great investigative piece for a trade and virtually no one will notice. Now there are tons of great trade magazines. But frankly, very few writers have any desire to work for a trade. We end up there because it's the best job we can get at the time. Maybe we grow to become interested in the industry, and maybe we become interested in the stories we're writing, but with few exceptions And let me say, I've worked for trade publications that paid $5 a word and put me on $2000 a month retainers. I've won tons of awards for trade articles. I've been able to write fun humor columns for staid trade publications. But do I think trades deserve the stigma? Yup. Do I recommend anyone work for a trade if they have another option? No. |
| mkelly | Posted – 6/20/2006 8:48:45 AM | show profile I dunno, my trade magazine pays more than twice what I ever made at daily newspapers and still tops what I could make at major metros, plus I work 9 to 5 rather than whatever horrible hours newspapers offer-- assuming, of course, you don't get laid off there. I'll take a trade any day. |
| rhjlee | Posted – 6/20/2006 9:39:09 AM | show profile part of the allure of editorial work is seeing your name in a public venue -- and to most, that means on the newstands, at the bookstores, in somebody's home vs. somebody's office. Trade pubs just aren't found there. So for some, the glamour factor is a key part of the game. |
| anonamice | Posted – 6/20/2006 10:22:46 AM | show profile what sort of trades are we talking about? Can you mention some of the trades that might even consider a 2,000 retainer? And what are the trades exactly? Would Archaeology Magazine be a trade? Or we talking about Root Canal Today? |
| SFElisaW | Posted – 6/20/2006 11:20:27 AM | show profile I left a junior position with a major newsmagazine to take a job in London with a trade publication that covers the global wine and spirits industry. Not only did it pay much better, but it offered the ability to delve into stories much more deeply than I would have been able to at a general interest mag. It was so refreshing to have the story list decided by a handful of people. The issues we covered were very interesting as well. I've found that the trade mags pay staffers better, but the women's mags pay freelancers better. I think the pay differential is partly because of the excruciatingly long edit process, not just because of the quality of the writing or reporting. It does matter what industry you are covering. Some do have more interesting issues. From what I've seen, a lot of great editors can have nice, stable, well paying jobs with trade mags while that seems to be relatively rare with high circ mags these days. The higher circ mags seem to like to churn people through. I definitely recommend that journalists check out trade magazines. It's one of the few segments left in job market with any real jobs. |
| SFElisaW | Posted – 6/20/2006 11:20:29 AM | show profile I left a junior position with a major newsmagazine to take a job in London with a trade publication that covers the global wine and spirits industry. Not only did it pay much better, but it offered the ability to delve into stories much more deeply than I would have been able to at a general interest mag. It was so refreshing to have the story list decided by a handful of people. The issues we covered were very interesting as well. I've found that the trade mags pay staffers better, but the women's mags pay freelancers better. I think the pay differential is partly because of the excruciatingly long edit process, not just because of the quality of the writing or reporting. It does matter what industry you are covering. Some do have more interesting issues. From what I've seen, a lot of great editors can have nice, stable, well paying jobs with trade mags while that seems to be relatively rare with high circ mags these days. The higher circ mags seem to like to churn people through. I definitely recommend that journalists check out trade magazines. It's one of the few segments left in job market with any real jobs. |
| mumbo jumbo | Posted – 6/20/2006 11:35:59 AM | show profile I spent the better part of my career in trade publishing, in the healthcare industry. The issues we covered are front-page topics in major newspapers. We did serious reporting on important issues. I worked with many highly intelligent people and many excellent writers. The publication offered opportunity to young writers and editors to do serious work. Our EAs got writing assignments (along with the administrative work) that gave them good clips which helped them move into higher positions there and elsewhere. That said, I've interviewed at some trades that were simply sweatshops, where you were expected to churn out copy that would position advertisers favorably. There are trades, and then there are trades. Evaluate them carefully before taking a job. But a good trade pub can launch you into a satisfying editorial career. |
| gimmemags | Posted – 6/20/2006 11:37:05 AM | show profile I would agree with the previous poster, and I would also say that, at least within the group of trades I work with, no one is getting fired because they're considered too old (40s) and therefore out of touch with pop culture, makeup and fashion--most of the things that most consumer mags focus on anyway. My trade publishers really value years of experience and nurture younger reporters and editors in a way that I haven't heard anyone say exists at a major consumer mag. I think the other poster who touched on the glamour aspect of consumer mags is correct. Is writing about the auto industry as sexy as say writing about Lindsey Lohan or Brangelina? No. But a lot of times trades are writing for people in positions of power who make decisions on things that will affect (y)our everyday lives. I work for a healthcare industry magazine and I tell you, if people only knew what is coming their way in the next 5-10 years... |
| MaggieGrl | Posted – 6/20/2006 11:51:08 AM | show profile Depends on the publication and what you make of it - working at a trade helped me develop an expertise (fashion, not root canals) that is a bit more glam and has led to many freelance gigs for consumer pubs. |
| fearofblackhat | Posted – 6/20/2006 12:12:41 PM | show profile Stigma against trades I am stunned that journalists would have such backward attitudes about trades. Aren't well written? Are sentences that rely on alliteration every other word well written? For the most part, the women's consumer magazines are full of fluff, followed by "we like....fill in advertiser name." Does celebrity obcession pass for intelligence these days? This is almost as amazing as the non-trade editor questions I hear at press conferences, indicating an uber-fluff mindset. And on top of it, now we have an elitest attitude to go with the endless conversations about who got the best holiday gift from advertisers. Too funny. |
| dribbledrive1 | Posted – 6/20/2006 1:27:16 PM | show profile What I meant by that is that most trades value information over prose. Even trades that are considered pretty good, like Advertising Age (which I've written for) can have clunky prose and clunky organization. -- am stunned that journalists would have such backward attitudes about trades. Aren't well written? Are sentences that rely on alliteration every other word well written?-- |
| belinda | Posted – 6/20/2006 6:02:14 PM | show profile There so much psychology of validation wrapped up in this stuff. It happens in the consumer world, too. I know some freelancers who believe you're nobody until you've written for the so-called women's magazines. I read what those writers go through and think they have rocks in their heads. Four rewrites and editing by committee for a $2-a-word FOB that winds up in the slush pile? I don't see the attraction. |
| ChiTiger | Posted – 6/20/2006 11:42:00 PM | show profile My Two Cents After becoming a jack-of-all-trades and a full-time freelancer out of college two years ago (out of necessity mind you), I finally landed a job at a national trade magazine. Of course I was elated at first (I'd been looking for a job for a year and was at my wit's end). But there was also a tinge of disappointment. I figured I had, to a degree, failed because I was entering the trade world rather than the consumer. Boy was I wrong. My publication services the legal sector. We cover stories that make national headlines, but we do it with more depth. Not only do I edit, but I write a good chunk of copy every month, which has elavated the quality of my portfolio exponentially. I'm given a tremendous amount of responsibility, I have a boss who has done an excellent job of nurturing my young talents, and I'm constantly learning new things that are actually pertinent to politics, law, business and society. The pay could be better, but I'm a newbie so I can't complain. It seems consumer mags are great platforms for people who like the sound of their own names (mind you not everyone who works for consumers fits this discription). And it also seems trades are great platforms for people who got into journalism because they love learning (mind you not everyone who works for trades fits this discription). |
| ClaraLee* | Posted – 6/21/2006 1:36:37 AM | show profile Right--and consumers such as 'Us Weekly' and 'People' are so goshdarn well-written. Come on! |
| sparky_fuego | Posted – 6/21/2006 2:27:20 PM | show profile i write for both and find good and bad in both genres. i'm very lucky to be working for several trades managed by one company. the editorial expectations are high, as is the pay. and i'm covering interesting stuff on a level i couldn't at a consumer mag. the consumers are fun, but fickle and it's hard to dig deep unless you get a really plum assignment. the pay isn't bad but the word counts are typically low and thus the content limiting. i focus on doing the best writing i can regardless of the venue. this earns me top dollar every time and that's good enough for this freelancer. |
| dribbledrive1 | Posted – 6/21/2006 2:41:48 PM | show profile That can happen. I don't write for women's magazines too much anymore but I once did, and I didn't find the editing by committee thing was too bad. I would turn in a piece and other than a few questions, there wasn't much rewriting involved. I did have one piece killed by Woman's Day because they decided the subject matter wasn't suitable for them. That was funny because the idea was theirs. But they paid me in full and then I resold the article, rewriting it some, to McCalls (shows how long ago this was, huh?) --It happens in the consumer world, too. I know some freelancers who believe you're nobody until you've written for the so-called women's magazines. I read what those writers go through and think they have rocks in their heads. Four rewrites and editing by committee for a $2-a-word FOB that winds up in the slush pile? I don't see the attraction.>> |
| overthehillwriter | Posted – 6/21/2006 3:48:18 PM | show profile | email poster I edit final copy for a couple trades I do freelance editing for a couple trade magazines, and formerly edited a regional magazine group and daily newspapers. I think the key to a well-written trade may be as simple as a well-edited trade. I edit the final copy just before it goes on the page, charge $30 an hour, and I go over it in minute detail. At some publications, they might not have time and money to produce quality copy, but if they have someone like me, it sure helps. |
| dribbledrive1 | Posted – 6/21/2006 4:54:38 PM | show profile It's partly that. But I think it goes beyond that. The amount a trade pays is going to influence both the quality of writers they can get and the amount of time writers will put into articles. Trades in general pay less so they rightfully expect and get less work. And also stylish writing isn't a selling point for many trades or a reason readers turn to them. That's why trades have what I call meat-and-potatoes prose for the most part. There's nothing wrong with that -- it serves the readers needs, which is information delivered as quick and efficiently as possible. And as you mentioned, editing is a key factor. Trade staffs tend to be small and in my experience editors don't have as much time, or inclination, to massage copy. A lot of trades have a newspaper mentality -- scrambling at the last second to get in the latest info and the quality of prose is an afterthought. Many trades I work for still have a "scoop" mentality. I worked for one trade, many years ago (and this is regarded as one of the top trade publications in the country), where the editor only cared if you had a scoop. If I pulled something off a press release but told him it was a scoop, he was as happy as a lark. Most trades, I find, are contend with quick first drafts as long as they are readable and contain pertinent information. --I do freelance editing for a couple trade magazines, and formerly edited a regional magazine group and daily newspapers. I think the key to a well-written trade may be as simple as a well-edited trade. I edit the final copy just before it goes on the page, charge $30 an hour, and I go over it in minute detail. At some publications, they might not have time and money to produce quality copy, but if they have someone like me, it sure helps.-- |
| other | Posted – 6/21/2006 6:15:35 PM | show profile Break-in advice Hope this doesn't come across as a silly question, but how does one break into trades? For instance, if I specialize in health reporting (for consumer mags), where would I find potential trade pub clients? How did you folks land the gigs you got? Were you specialists first, or learn the beat on-the-job? All advice is appreciated. I'm especially interested i dribble's story... Thanks. |
| other | Posted – 6/21/2006 6:15:55 PM | show profile Break-in advice Hope this doesn't come across as a silly question, but how does one break into trades? For instance, if I specialize in health reporting (for consumer mags), where would I find potential trade pub clients? How did you folks land the gigs you got? Were you specialists first, or learn the beat on-the-job? All advice is appreciated. I'm especially interested in dribble's story... Thanks. |
| The Mighty Quill | Posted – 6/21/2006 9:56:43 PM | show profile | email poster Trades have their charms - Like expense accounts, travel, steady work, and, the ability to turn it into whatever you want. I edit a trade mag, and just got back from DC, and attended a press briefing at the National Press Club where Hillary Clinton spoke and Secretary of Energy Bodman countered. Not a dull day. All the criticisms are correct - the writing can be dreadful, if you let it. You can let it be some blowing-sunshine-up-the-arse giveaway, if you're not careful. Or, you can make serious journalism of it, and be quoted by the NY Times, WSJ, etc. It's easy to let your standards drop, but rewarding if you don't. ------ MQ |
| flipflap | Posted – 6/21/2006 11:52:31 PM | show profile in praise of trades I agree with ClaraLee, dribble, Mighty and other posters. I'd rather write for a quality trade than a lightweight consumer magazine any day. I've kind of had it with trying to please editors at trendy mags who demand yet more information or a rewrite for no good reason. My editors at trade pubs expect, and pay for, a carefully researched and well- ritten piece with a snappy lede. The editors are j-school grads who came from consumer mags or wire services. The publisher hired them because s/he expects a polished product. Since the editors are not experts in the industry they cover, they're smart enough to commission pieces from people who are, whether the writer is a journalist or not. So I have to admit there's an uneven quality to the writing depending on the writer's credentials. But the readers value substance over style, as one poster pointed out. Why does the stigma continue? I've come across trade publications that just solicit press releases or limit themselves to articles about/submitted by advertisers. I suppose they give the term "trade magazins" a bad name. |
| jcpatterson | Posted – 6/22/2006 10:30:52 AM | show profile I think stigma depends on context to a great deal. I freelance almost exclusively for trades, by choice. I love them. I am continually learning, I can speak with confidence to professionals in these industries, I can live exactly where I want (very little pressure to meet my editors face-to-face on a regular basis), and when I tell people what kind of writing I do, they are impressed. I figure the trades deserve the best writing I can produce, every time. It doesn't take me any longer to produce a good piece than one just slapped together. If I don't like the quality of writing in one of the mags, I can either stick around and improve it, or I can move on. Do I do the reverse and look down on consumer mags? Not at all, I think some of them are wonderful. Do I send pitches? Yep, when I have something that might fit. But do I worry about my client magazines' place in some hierarchy? Not at all. Ultimately, in any career, you have to decide what criteria you use personally to define success, and you obey that rather than some external and shifting pecking order. |
| dribbledrive1 | Posted – 6/22/2006 12:15:20 PM | show profile I disagree with this. For most writers, higher quality requires more work -- more research, more rewriting, more polishing. Do I do the best writing and best article I can everytime for every client? I'd go broke if that were the case. I do the best article they can afford and they need. My feeling is the fee is buying a certain amount of my time and I decide how to do the best work I can in that amount of time. But will my writing tend to be better for a $7,000 article than a $500 article? You bet, because I will put a lot more work into it. But the client will be happy with the $500 andf it will meet their needs. --I figure the trades deserve the best writing I can produce, every time. It doesn't take me any longer to produce a good piece than one just slapped together-- |
