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Topic: A New York resume gets you nowhere when you leave
| Author | Message |
| Ketzele | Posted – 7/11/2006 3:38:37 PM | show profile Here's a question: I've got a fairly good resume with ten plus years of national newsstand magazine experience in New York. I want to leave for a particularly smaller city and have been sending out my resume. I've also been networking. Now I don't expect editors to be falling out of their chairs when they see my resume. I am not THAT full of myself. But how many people in this particular small city have worked at any of the top 20 mags in the country? I'd guess very few. Shouldn't that count for SOMETHING? I am not sure what' going on because I am getting blown off left and right. No returned phone calls, no emails, nada. If NY is the mag capital of the world how come no one else wants us? |
| wallieflwr | Posted – 7/11/2006 3:47:29 PM | show profile maybe they assume they can't aford you. Most outside of new york don't realize journalists IN NY work for shit, too. |
| gagner25 | Posted – 7/11/2006 3:48:47 PM | show profile hmm My guess is that maybe it's because they think you are overqualified ... that you wouldn't be happy there or you wouldn't be stimulated enough. |
| sallybelle75 | Posted – 7/11/2006 3:54:51 PM | show profile Maybe you can articulate the fact that you REALLY, REALLY do wish to work in a small town in your "objective" section of your resume (at the top?). Not necessarily in those words but, maybe if you can break the barrier between these employers and your extensive experience with a "subliminal" message conveying your objective they may be more receptive. |
| dribbledrive1 | Posted – 7/11/2006 4:17:42 PM | show profile 1. If it's a small town, there probably aren't many magazines, and so there aren't many magazine jobs. Most people won't return phone calls or even emails from job seekers they don't know unless they have an immediate opening. 2. People may look at your credentials and assume you cost too much or will only consider a high-level job, which, again, may not be open. 3. It sounds like you are doing a long distance search, which is always harder. |
| overthehillwriter | Posted – 7/11/2006 8:09:29 PM | show profile | email poster Welcome to OUR world -- journalists in the far-flung nether regions. Not many jobs out here -- that's one of the many reasons journalists (heart) NY. Look at the jobs on mediabistro. There's a column on the side that shows you the number in each of the major markets. The numbers go down dramatically away from the Big Apple. Don't take it personally -- I don't. THere's fewer magazines, ergo fewer magazine openings in small markets. THe ones that pop up get thronged with applicants, many of them familiar products because of their local work. Many of the mags in these smaller markets have smaller budgets and narrower margins so they have fewer total employees, and can't simply create a position because a plum candidate lands in their laps. That said, if you're looking outside the city, don't forget to look outside the box -- at different kinds of publications than you're used to. Also, don't forget to check with national publications that may have regional editors or writers -- some trade publications do, for example. Just know that if they have a few senior editor who works from home in the Midwest, that's just a few positions in the Midwest. Again, fewer openings. In the meantime, you might weigh in with other publications from your niche that would appreciate your experience and new availability as a freelance writer. Just an idea. Good luck ... |
| midwestwriter | Posted – 7/11/2006 10:28:26 PM | show profile | email poster I am not quite in your position (I do not have your wealth of experience) but I work in a small state in the midwest. The mag where I work is looking to hire staff and what I have noticed is that since the community is smaller they tend to look to friends and family to fill positions. Several incredibly qualified people have applied and the people responsible for hiring wouldn't even give them the time of day. Additionally, many of the people at the mag have been there for a length of time that exceeds my age and they are very untrusting of someone who they believe may coup d'etat. I know it sounds crazy but it is very much the, "We don't trust strangers" and "Get the heck out of Dodge" mentality. I have lived in many places, and while I love the midwest they are definitely a tight-knit group. You really have to live among them to find all the right places to look and the right people to know. |
| Ketzele | Posted – 7/12/2006 9:28:09 AM | show profile Thanks to everyone who wrote. You've made excellent points. Here's the ironic part: I started my career in this particular small city! I spent four years in the trenches there, and then I moved to NY to hit the consumer market. So I am writing to tell editors I want to come back! I am aware of the market there. It is very small, and of course competitive. It was that way when I lived there. But my priorities have changed, I am older now and I want to go back to an easier lifestyle. And believe me, life is easier there than it is in NYC. (You know, maybe buy a house, and afford to have a child while still working.) But not to get any responses for networking at ALL? At the very least, wouldn't these editors want to talk to someone who could freelance for them before/instead of making the move? I just don't get it. And I do want to stress I don't think I am god's gift. But I've got so much to offer! |
| overthehillwriter | Posted – 7/12/2006 10:19:35 AM | show profile | email poster I'd definitely follow up with a call, maybe make a trip out there and call first to several, saying "I'll be in the area on business on .... date, I'd love to visit with you about any upcoming opportunities and just say hello." 1) You're being a good employee before you're employed there by taking initiative and removing their risk and effort 2) You help them get over the hump of them having enough local candidates that they don't have to (and can't afford to) bring someone in for an interview 3) You demonstrate great problem solving skills and negotiation abilities. 4) THey're a bit intrigued because they don't know what your other BUSINESS is and they wonder if you have other interviews set up and they think others might want you so you're more of a catch. Remain mysterious here! When you do meet with them, wow them while remaining humble and expressing a deep desire to be BACK HOME TO STAY (don't mention wanting to have kids though, just a "note to self") To remove the money obstacle, you might consider this: casually say "I've had friends wonder how I could take a pay cut to move back here. They don't realize how much more affordable it is to live here -- which is what I've ALWAYS LOVED ABOUT MINNEAPOLIS (this market)." This shows you're not stuck on big money (but leaves the flattering notion that someone in New York thought you were worth big bucks and that you were successful there) and also that you've studied the local market -- another fear employers have is that outsiders won't know what they're getting into, and there will be turnover as you flee, screaming, back to Manhattan. I helped two friends relocate across the country using this technique. It has also worked for me. DON'T ASSUME NO ONE WANTS YOU BECAUSE YOU"RE FROM NEW YORK. Instead, assume that the logistics of hiring someone from a distance are bewildering to smaller market folk, and remove the obstacles to a distance hire while remaining humble and positive. Best of luck to you. |
| chucho | Posted – 7/12/2006 11:30:09 AM | show profile They don't want to hire blind or pay for flying you in for an interview. Plus, as others have implied, publications generally tend to hire locally. As it is difficult to land a job in NYC from "out West" without re-locating first, it works the other way around. That poses a problem, of course, since the big city has more employment options. My advice: pick based on where you want to live, and plan on going there to secure a job in person rathe rthan by email and telephone. Unless it's a reltively large newspaper, it's unlikely you'll find anyone willing to fly you in for an interview and a drug test, something the Times-Picayune did when I applied for work there... flew me in, set me up in a hotel, narrowed the field to me and another person, I lost out ... but I did pass the pee test :) |
| Venus | Posted – 7/12/2006 11:37:19 AM | show profile One other issue to consider: Small town markets are often burned by city journalists who think they want the small town life but then retreat quickly back to the city. I worked for a magazine in a small town, and it repeatedly had trouble getting city journalists to stay longer than a year or two. So, as a previous poster suggested, I'd emphasize that this town was once home to you and thay you're eager to move back and stay a long time. Good luck! |
| dribbledrive1 | Posted – 7/12/2006 12:13:54 PM | show profile As others have said, I think you need to stress this part in your letter. You may also need to offer to pay your own expenses to come in for an interview. The difficult is you have, professionally, outgrown most of the jobs that will be available in this market. If I were a hiring manager, honestly I'd be skeptical of you, too. I'd be wondering how quickly you'll be bored by the reality of the job and if you're start trying to position yourself to take my job. --Here's the ironic part: I started my career in this particular small city! I spent four years in the trenches there, and then I moved to NY to hit the consumer market. So I am writing to tell editors I want to come back!.. |
| scribble | Posted – 7/12/2006 12:20:54 PM | show profile it's about timing I hear you--I worked in NYC for several years before moving back to my hometown to marry my sweetie. I sent out a few feeler emails to places, including the magazine I now work at, saying I was moving in XX month, and would they be interested in an info interview or for potential freelance work (I fact check and write). Didn't really hear much, moved on my own dime, and a few weeks after I moved in, I got a call from my current employer asking for an updated resume. When they got it, they called me iback mmediately, saying there was a staff opening with exactly my experience needed. Within two months of moving, I was working here full time, and I've been here for nearly three years. You'll probably have to move first, and info interviews are always a good idea. But I don't think it's because of your experience that you're not getting calls. Just keep working at it. |
| overthehillwriter | Posted – 7/12/2006 3:10:59 PM | show profile | email poster While moving first might be an extra help, I don't believe you have to physically move first, if you are willing to put your money where your mouth is by making an advance visit as suggested before, you could even say "I'll be in town to scout real estate on August 4 or Aug 11 and I'd love to drop by and talk with you == would one of those work for you?" Get a firm appointment (and keep it, obviously). Schedule multiple ones for the same visit to maximize your investment. |
| Lotus665 | Posted – 7/13/2006 9:57:33 AM | show profile I feel ya I, too, had mucho NYC experience and found it just maddening that it didn't mean much, if anything, in other cities (San Fran and Philadelphia, respectively). I believe those hiring want people who know well and/or are native to the area, because the pubs in these places are more locally rather than nationally focused. I didn't stay in SF long enough to see whether things would change (and it was a long time ago, and is a different city now). But I've been in Phila. for six years and have found getting work in the limited market tough. Despite those groovy impressive NYC credentials. I've made my peace by continuing to live here but freelancing a great deal for national markets, many based in New York. I suggest that, if you really want to move back to Small City, USA, you do the same. Live there, but obtain your work from New York etc.! |
| overthehillwriter | Posted – 7/13/2006 11:18:12 AM | show profile | email poster Here are the stats on ads from Mediabistro, jobs in different markets. I think they're very telling, and if you're looking in a small market, be aware that while there are 707 ads for jobs in NY, there are only 17 in Philadelphia and 2 in Ohio. Meanwhile, there are many qualified local candidates who can't get full-time jobs there so must rely on national freelancing. I am one of them. Meanwhile, your New York credentials are likely to impress most in New York. If you try to flash the initials NY to a Seattle editor (who may or may not have gone to New York) it may be like bragging that you have a master's degree when the person hiring you may not. Not the effect you hoped for. Let your work speak for itself -- and do the national freelancing others of us in the hinterlands have to do in the meantime. New York(707) California (126) New Jersey(70) Illinois (53) District of Columbia(38) Massachusetts (28) Connecticut (25) Virginia (18) Florida (18) Pennsylvania (17) Washington (14) Maryland (12) Georgia (12) Colorado (11) Texas (8) Nevada (7) North Carolina (5) Missouri (5) Arizona (5) Oregon (4) Iowa (4) Louisiana (3) Kansas (3) Indiana (3) Rhode Island (2) Oklahoma (2) Ohio (2) New Mexico (2) New Hampshire (2) Minnesota (2) Michigan (2) |
| chucho | Posted – 7/13/2006 3:14:17 PM | show profile Mediabistro is very NY-centric. Try the same poll on Journalismjobs.com, which is way less provincial than MB. |
| Newsy | Posted – 7/13/2006 4:17:42 PM | show profile So I'm not the only one in the middle of nowhere jounalism-wise...there's one paper in my town and another smaller weekly. I just applied for a copy editing position at the paper, but things are SO slow over there. Good luck, Ket. Is there anyone at the paper who was there when you were there? They may be able to vouch for you to the boss.... |
| overthehillwriter | Posted – 7/13/2006 5:06:05 PM | show profile | email poster It's a false reading to look at jj and assume it reflects a more balanced job picture. Journalismjobs is less NY-centric because it's less focused on publishing in general. So look and see how many jobs are on journalismjobs, by state, and you will see there aren't many positions out there, period. Same goes for all the journalism association boards, I'm afraid. |
| overthehillwriter | Posted – 7/13/2006 5:08:58 PM | show profile | email poster There are many more publishers in New York, and they -- like everyone in rabbit holes around the country -- are far more apt to hire LOCAL talent. Ergo, they advertise on a NY-centric board, Mediabistro. Few jobs out in the hinterlands. |
| blondie2 | Posted – 7/14/2006 1:58:20 AM | show profile Not a local anymore As someone who built a career in a small city, I can tell you one of the main reasons why people like me won't consider candidates like you. 1. We don't believe you'll stay. The fact that you came from that small town will HELP, but the fact is you were lured away by the bright lights of the big city once before, and so you are a "flight risk." This is the single biggest reason why I toss away resumes from candidates who "REALLY" want to relocate. If you want to overcome that objection, the only way to do is is to save a little money and move there. Then put yourself in front of the people you want to hire you. 2. We know you'll take a pay cut working for us, and that makes us wonder how long you'll be happy knowing how much you can make elsewhere. The overqualified thing?? NAH. You are not as special as you think, just because you worked in NY. Frankly, many NY professionals seem to be the victims of writer mills and highly-structured environments. Small town writers may sometimes be rough around the edges, but they typically can connect better to locals and have a more defined sense of their own style in their writing. So sometimes that big city experience is more of a hindrance. Sure, its impressive and really, good for you. But that type of experience is probably not worth the newsroom attitude to me (without knowing you or any other candidate personally, that will be my assumption). Just move back, wait tables if you have to, and get to know the local powers-that-be. Show them you're not some uptight, pretentious city girl, and that you love to write, and that you are settling down in the region and will stick around awhile...you'll find a good job before you know it. Good luck! |
| blondie2 | Posted – 7/14/2006 2:01:05 AM | show profile when I said "you're not as special as you think you are," I wasn't speaking about you personally. The stereotype. :-) Didn't want to think I meant to insult you, as YOU are probably not like that, but those who came before you have set a lousy precedent. |
