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Topic: past employer sabotaging staffer's future jobs??
| Author | Message |
| flummoxed | Posted – 7/31/2006 3:14:56 PM | show profile what are the chances that a past employer would bad-mouth someone after 6 years of absolutely no contact? okay, i admit i'm suspicious by nature, but i've had two specific experiences (and one vague one) with two different magazines--one, about 5 years ago, the other, very recently--for which i was about to be hired when, at the last minute, I was abruptly given the brush-off for no apparent reason. as it happens, people on both publications have had a passing acquaintance with my past employer (who i don't use as a reference because i've heard him denegrate other former staff) what's more, i've applied for freelance jobs (for which i have all the prerequisite training and experience) at a large institution where this guy had also worked, and i never so much as get a postcard acknowledging the receipt of my resume. so whaddya think? am i being a total nut case? or, if not, is there anything i can do about this nasty windbag? (other than change my name or career) |
| WholeNote | Posted – 7/31/2006 3:21:52 PM | show profile I've had this problem too. My approach has been to present that ugly job on my resume in a way that focuses on the skills I developed through the position - usually at the expense of concentrating on where and for whom I had been working. (i.e. I don't mention the name of the company, just the name of one of its publications which - fortunately for me - shares the same name as other periodicas and is no longer circulating anyway). You're not crazy. It's unfortunate that former employers are such assholes. What's worse is that prospective employers don't understand that even good, industrious people can find themselves working for losers. |
| The phashionista | Posted – 7/31/2006 3:32:17 PM | show profile Why not have a friend call this guy up and do a reference check on you just to see what he is saying? Tape record it, too, so you have the information. |
| miamiami | Posted – 7/31/2006 3:48:59 PM | show profile If a past employer is bad mouthing you that is against the law in my state Florida. Look into the law in your state. Ask the last job specifically why they did not hire you if they confirm that he did bad mouth you get a lawyer- probably on nasty letter from an attorney will shut this guy up. |
| AlpineMadness | Posted – 7/31/2006 4:29:43 PM | show profile Having a friend call that idiot and ask for a ref. is an excellent idea!!! I vote for that one...then you could possibly sue him for slander! |
| WholeNote | Posted – 7/31/2006 5:25:12 PM | show profile This thread is fascinating to me. Past employers are actually prohibited by law from giving bad references? |
| flummoxed | Posted – 7/31/2006 5:28:14 PM | show profile thanks for all your supportive words and suggestions, unfortunately (or maybe not so unfortunately), this guy no longer lives locally, and i don't know his contact info. besides, he'd be suspicious if i suddenly gave him as a reference, i am however having some friends do a bit of reconnaissance on this latest unexplained rejection, but so far i've heard nothing. i guess the moral of the story is never dispute the opinion of a well-known gasbag whose got a god complex. or better yet, stay away from these people altogether. thanks again, you guys are better than therapy! |
| dribbledrive1 | Posted – 7/31/2006 6:27:59 PM | show profile I don't know about specific states, but generally it is against the law to give an inaccurate reference. So, for example, if you employee evaluations were always excellent, it is against the law for the employer to say they were poor. But he can say your evaluations were poor if this is correct. It sounds like in this situation, the employer might have personally known the people calling for references, in which case he might have been more forthcoming with his opinions than if someone he doesn't know calls for a reference. ==This thread is fascinating to me. Past employers are actually prohibited by law from giving bad references?== |
| dribbledrive1 | Posted – 7/31/2006 6:29:57 PM | show profile In reality, the person probably wouldn't give you an exact reason or tell you what the reference said if it wasn't complimentary. --Ask the last job specifically why they did not hire you if they confirm that he did bad mouth you get a lawyer- probably on nasty letter from an attorney will shut this guy up.-- |
| noname1234 | Posted – 7/31/2006 6:35:37 PM | show profile To be honest, there are a lot of reasons for these kinds of brush-offs and rejections (I've experienced many mystifying rejections myself) other than a past employer with a multi-year vendetta. In a large company, if the guy works in a different department or for a different property than the one you're dealing with, it's probably unlikely he'd even know you were interviewing or pitching. Based on your description I'd rank it unlikely the guy is the culprit. |
| dribbledrive1 | Posted – 7/31/2006 8:05:07 PM | show profile As a freelancer, I apply for tons of gigs for which I am qualified and never hear back. ==To be honest, there are a lot of reasons for these kinds of brush-offs and rejections (I've experienced many mystifying rejections myself) other than a past employer with a multi-year vendetta. In a large company, if the guy works in a different department or for a different property than the one you're dealing with, it's probably unlikely he'd even know you were interviewing or pitching. Based on your description I'd rank it unlikely the guy is the culprit... |
| AWC | Posted – 8/1/2006 11:09:16 AM | show profile You're probably being paranoid, but anyone who is giving bad and/or inaccurate references should be careful. I once worked for a large organization where someone gave a less-than-flattering reference that led to a nasty law suit, and ultimately an out-of-court settlement. The wronged party was able to prove that he wasn't hired due to a bad reference based largely on personal opinion and not on demonstrable work history. Eventually everyone in the organization was banned from giving any kind of reference (good or bad) to anyone. |
| royj | Posted – 8/1/2006 11:24:54 AM | show profile | email poster Forbidden from giving references In a past position I supervised a few people, and we were forbidden from giving references. The only thing we could do was confirm dates of employment. I was told it was to protect us from lawsuits; it was a big company, and we had deep pockets (not that we saw any evidence of aforementioned deep pockets in our department's budget), making us prime targets for hungry lawyers. |
| dribbledrive1 | Posted – 8/1/2006 11:48:20 AM | show profile I agree with you. The job applicant says he has no way to contact the guy himself, so it's doubtful employers are looking six years into his past and locating this guy on their own to get a reference from him. None of know the specifics, of course, but I often sense when someone says "I was just about to be hired," there were probably at least a couple of other candidates who felt the exact same way. ---To be honest, there are a lot of reasons for these kinds of brush-offs and rejections (I've experienced many mystifying rejections myself) other than a past employer with a multi-year vendetta. In a large company, if the guy works in a different department or for a different property than the one you're dealing with, it's probably unlikely he'd even know you were interviewing or pitching. Based on your description I'd rank it unlikely the guy is the culprit.--- |
| miamiami | Posted – 8/1/2006 3:58:17 PM | show profile A past employer can only verfiy your dates of employment and pay rate. I was a local union president in another industry and one of my members did sue a airline for a bad reference. She was actully in the room when the reference call was made- it was on speaker phone. That was an expensive phone call. |
| questoo1 | Posted – 8/1/2006 7:02:25 PM | show profile on the other hand....if you work in some kind of niche, there is a good chance everyone knows each other - lots of concentric circles. Not entirely uncommon practice for someone hiring to look a resume, reckognize the title of the publication and email someone they know who had worked there. |
| noname1234 | Posted – 8/1/2006 7:19:37 PM | show profile The poster didn't really give much info about what happened at this job 6 years go, but if i were doing the hiring, even if i deduced the link between the applicant and the bad former boss, it's unlikey i'd give much weight to comments made by someone who supervised the person a half-decade ago, especially if i had more recent references that were universally positive. |
| dribbledrive1 | Posted – 8/1/2006 8:36:55 PM | show profile This isn't true. Many companies have policies that they only verify dates of employment out of fear of litigation. But there is is no law mandating this. --A past employer can only verfiy your dates of employment and pay rate. I was a local union president in another industry and one of my members did sue a airline for a bad reference. She was actully in the room when the reference call was made- it was on speaker phone. That was an expensive phone call. -- |
| magjournalist | Posted – 8/4/2006 2:40:13 AM | show profile No, you're not a nut case. No, you're not a nutcase. GET SOMEONE ELSE FROM THE JOB TO BE YOUR REFERENCE. That is the most important piece of advice I can give you. If she persists in badmouthing you (or you think she is) call her up and threaten with a lawyer. That's what I did with one of my last employers. Worked like a charm. And it was fun to do, besides. |
| mfugate | Posted – 8/11/2006 4:43:04 PM | show profile | email poster If you don't have anything like performance evaluations (which my company always promised, but never actually gave us), what can you present as evidence against a bad reference? I was the star employee until a month before my firing, when I had some personal problems that made me less than exciting to be around at work. I scheduled a meeting with the boss, talked it out with him, had a schedule in place to figure everything out and still got fired three days later. I know he bad-mouths me, because he did it to the unemployment board. If I find he's giving me bad references, there's really no paper trail. Is there a next step from there? |
| veteranjournalist | Posted – 8/11/2006 7:49:00 PM | show profile Here's my advice if you can't leave the company off your resume: If you had another supervisor you got along with at that company besides your "bad boss," list that person as a reference instead, even if that person no longer works for the company. If that's not possible, then list a high-ranking ally you had at that company as a reference. As mentioned before, if this is really bothering you, it may be a good idea to have someone you know and trust to pose as a potential employer and find out what your references are saying about you. Check the laws in your state about whether or not it's legal to record phone conversations without someone's knowledge or consent. In some states, it's legal to secretly record phone conversations, and it could be powerful evidence in case you ever need to take, or threaten, legal action. Even if secretly recording phone conversations is illegal in your state, you can still have the earwitness evidence, which is still legally admissable evidence in most cases. |
| noname1234 | Posted – 8/11/2006 7:51:25 PM | show profile I think the poster mentioned originally that the bad boss wasn't on her reference list. she was concerned he was finding out about her applications via mutual acquaintances and speaking ill of her. |
| veteranjournalist | Posted – 8/11/2006 8:26:09 PM | show profile Noname1234: You're right. I forgot the original poster wasn't even listing the "bad boss" as a reference. There's not much that can be done about former supervisors gossiping about you when it's not in the context of them giving you a reference. The exceptions are if there's some kind of legal agreement that was signed when you left the company that prohibited the employer from badmouthing you under any circumstance. My understanding is that most "bad reference" lawsuit situations occur if a employer badmouths a current or former employee when the employer is specifically contacted as a reference, and the bad reference contained lies or personal info that shouldn't be discussed in the context of a job interview. Don't drive yourself crazy over thinking what a boss you had several years ago may be saying about you now. Anyone who's been in the workforce long enough will encounter people and bosses who dislike them. You just have to deal with it and try to make as many allies as you can so they far outnumber any enemies who may badmouth you. It's very common in today's job hunting marketplace to be suddenly ignored and "cut off" after what you think are promising interviews. There are lots of reasons why you may not get a job. Maybe whoever got the job instead had better inside connections than you did. Maybe the person they hired was more qualified than you are. Not getting a job happens all the time to lots of people, so try not to think being rejected for a job is all the fault of your former boss, when it could be a completely different reason that you'll never know about. |
| veteranjournalist | Posted – 8/11/2006 8:37:12 PM | show profile P.S. To Flummoxed: Please remember that in today's job market it's very common not to get any response after you send your resume. It happens more often than not, even to the best of candidates, and especially if it's a competitive field like the media. For most people, only a small fraction of interviews result from the number of resumes they send. And of those interviews, many people end up not getting the job. That's why you can't get too caught up in thinking a former employer is conspiring against you. All the rejections and non-responses you're getting come with the territory if you want a job in the media. Chances are you're facing a lot of competition from more qualified candidates. |
| overthehillwriter | Posted – 8/12/2006 11:49:07 AM | show profile | email poster There's another unique factor, something odd I have observed in business and real life. There are people, in and out of HR and other departments, who are nice solely because they're trying to get what they want. When they have no further use for you (they choose a different candidate or decide they don't need to fill the post right now or whatever), they turn off the "nice" tap. (There are candidates and applicants that are the same way.) Sometimes people who are like this are an unattractive combination of busy-ness and poor social skills. If THIS happens to you, don't take it personally. It's their problem, not yours, will get them in trouble eventually -- and you don't necessarily want to be working with people like that anyway. Conversely, don't be like that. If you don't get a job offer, don't suddenly lose your manners or pout or be a poor sport. Keep an even keel. |
