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Topic: Being childfree
| Author | Message |
| ubitiq | Posted – 8/18/2006 6:32:45 AM | show profile I have a query on the topic of intentional childlessness I've been trying to sell forever now..Pitched it to quite a few women's mags, and some cultural ones to no avail. Is anyone aware of other outlets that might be receptive to this idea? |
| caitlinkelly | Posted – 8/18/2006 9:17:43 AM | show profile I would imagine this is a hard sell as most people (i.e. editors who would buy this) become parents and those who don't have kids are often seen as selfish narcissists. As someone with no kids, I think there's something to say, but I'm not sure who'll buy it. I wonder if men who choose not to have kids hear the same litany women do; it's simply assumed you must want kids, and not wanting them is seen as deviant or weird. |
| WPL | Posted – 8/18/2006 9:21:23 AM | show profile try oprah |
| lenagrove | Posted – 8/18/2006 9:54:26 AM | show profile I've seen this topic done already several times in the past few years. That might be why it's difficult to sell. |
| dribbledrive1 | Posted – 8/18/2006 11:53:55 AM | show profile The problem with this instant analysis is we don't know what the angle on the topic is. With a topic like this, the specific angle is everything. --I would imagine this is a hard sell as most people (i.e. editors who would buy this) become parents and those who don't have kids are often seen as selfish narcissists. As someone with no kids, I think there's something to say, but I'm not sure who'll buy it. I wonder if men who choose not to have kids hear the same litany women do; it's simply assumed you must want kids, and not wanting them is seen as deviant or weird.-- |
| Printingman | Posted – 8/18/2006 12:20:16 PM | show profile | email poster I do happen to think that peole who don't want children are "weird". I also think how horrible was their childhood that would translate into not wanting to have children of their own. I know its a gross stereotype for me to say that but its the first thing that crosses my mind when I meet people who don't want children. I know it doesn't answer your question but I thought I had to voice my opinion on this subject. |
| mailbag | Posted – 8/18/2006 12:45:59 PM | show profile | email poster childhood web "Printingman -- I do happen to think that peole who don't want children are "weird" I also think how horrible was their childhood that would translate into not wanting to have children of their own. " Maybe not a gross overstatement. I agree with you for the most part. I am weird by most people's definition. I had a great childhood up until being raped. I would never wish a child to have my genes or godforbid look like me. Of course none of that has to do with parenting skills. I would indeed be an excellent parent...and I can't say that about anyone I know today. There are plenty of needy children available and I'd be there to adopt on a dime given my financial situation allowed me a 2bdr and private schooling for him/her. As my g-ma always said -- there is no such thing as a bad kid, only bad parents. |
| teentastic | Posted – 8/18/2006 1:08:50 PM | show profile I don't want kids. And I am not weird and had a very happy childhood with zero trauma -- I think I fit more into the selfish narcissist category -- I love my life, love having lots of money, love having few responsibilities and worries. I like kids, but I don't know a single person who has kids whose life I would trade for my own. kids are a big pain in the ass -- they take up all your attention and time. ugh -- not for me. and I wouldn't read an article in a magazine about this because I find it annoying when people say I'm weird or selfish (even if I am.) |
| mailbag | Posted – 8/18/2006 1:28:55 PM | show profile | email poster men? "teentastic -kids are a big pain in the ass -- they take up all your attention and time. ugh -- not for me." Teen, personally I have a lot of respect for someone with your view, because what you say and admit to is what so many others SHOULD admit to but do not! Instead they pop out a kid and never follow up with the real responsibilities you obviously know is required. So, good for you! I didn't catch this at the beginning, but why ubitiq did you only pitch to women's magazines??? There are men around who like to discuss this topic. |
| caitlinkelly | Posted – 8/18/2006 1:49:02 PM | show profile Dr. Seuss vs DSM-IV Coping with mental illness, or other significant genetic issues, in your family history is a factor few people are eager to chat about over cocktails. Fear of passing such debilitating illness onto your kids is an issue for some. If you've already spent your "carefree" childhood, adolescence and/or adulthood rushing to care for such a needy parent (and you do), you're unlikely to sign up for 20+ years of further responsibility for another helpless person, or several (i.e. kids.) Parents know, and choose, what they get into, while some people who choose not have or adopt kids have already toughed out many terrifying situations on their ill parent's behalf. Yet the assumption is made that they're avoiding responsibility -- when it's been already been thrust upon them for decades. What is really offensive are snap, negative judgments about why you wish to eschew parenthood. By the time peer pressure to procreate becomes intense, you may barely have recovered from decades of caring intensively and unrelentingly for someone else. Which is what parenthood is. Some people, heaving a sigh of relief, prefer to step off the treadmill. The other assumption is that all child-free people must hate kids. Not true. |
| writesonwater | Posted – 8/18/2006 2:24:23 PM | show profile | email poster First, Mailbag, I'm sorry to hear about your traumatic experience. Must have been horrific. Caitlin, I can identify on the gene pool issue. One of my parents was mentally ill (spiralling down as I grew up) and one just incredibly selfish. I am a parent, and I'm glad I have kids, but I have friends who don't have kids and I don't judge them. THey may be missing out on having someone else to love, but I have certainly missed out on freedom, income, calm moments and all sorts of things. And definitely, parenting means pain. Anne LaMott said your babies come out clutching a fifth of your brain, and I agree. Everything's a trade off. Agree on the angle thing -- there's obviously so many ways of looking at childlessness, I would think your pitch would have to be carefully crafted and specific. |
| Angela Dobbs | Posted – 8/18/2006 2:31:18 PM | show profile Salon.com & the Motherhood Gene There was an article on women who don't want children on Salon.com about four years ago. It was VERY interesting. The article talked about a "motherhood" gene that some women just don't have, making them not so accepting of spitting a few kids out. I think I am one of these rare women. I don't like the idea of having children at all. I hate the idea of something growing inside of me. I hate the idea of being poked and manhandled by doctors. I hate the idea that as a pregnant woman, your body becomes public property so to speak. I hate the idea of the stress that comes with being a parent, along with the loss of independence. And, I HATE the idea of millions of already-born children in this world who are dying for parents and will never be adopted. Seeing newborn babies or young children doesn't make me smile. I feel no maternal instict toward them. I never want to hold them, not even a baby of a close friend. I rarely want to ever talk to them. And yet, my female friends go ga-ga over babies, and I can't even come the slightest bit close to understanding what the big deal is. I'm 30, and people keep telling me the clock will start kicking in, but deep down, I know it won't. |
| ubitiq | Posted – 8/18/2006 2:38:28 PM | show profile Childfree and happy "I do happen to think that peole who don't want children are "weird". I also think how horrible was their childhood that would translate into not wanting to have children of their own." funny i think the same way about breeders. are we in need of more homo sapiens given that we are fast galloping towards 7 billion? i have found that it is people who wish to participate in this biological imperative that are narcissstic - the vast majority of them wsh to perpetuate the 'bloodline' or pay less taxes..and you call me selfish! i also find that the choice to abstain from procreating is far more acceptable in europe than the u.s. |
| Linda F | Posted – 8/18/2006 2:39:41 PM | show profile And this is probably not "sexy" enough to include in such an article, but there are people, like my husband and me, who just never felt the desire to have kids. It's not something we discuss or debate. We did not have traumatic childhoods, and there is no mental illness in our families. We also happen to love kids. The idea of having kids ourselves just never crossed our radar. That's all. I have a friend who recently said to me, "Oh, I just met this couple you're going to love. They're 40 and they're [insert meaningful look here] *childless by choice*." As if my husband and I get up every morning and say to each other, "Well, here we are, another day of being childless by choice." It's just not something that's forefront in our minds. Maybe someday we'll change our minds, and maybe not. |
| ubitiq | Posted – 8/18/2006 2:40:49 PM | show profile mailbag are you aware of any men's mags that would be receptive to this? |
| ubitiq | Posted – 8/18/2006 2:43:52 PM | show profile tarra - i couldnt have said it better so relieved to find out that there are women like me..thank you! I think I am one of these rare women. I don't like the idea of having children at all. I hate the idea of something growing inside of me. I hate the idea of being poked and manhandled by doctors. I hate the idea that as a pregnant woman, your body becomes public property so to speak. I hate the idea of the stress that comes with being a parent, along with the loss of independence. And, I HATE the idea of millions of already-born children in this world who are dying for parents and will never be adopted. |
| Stressed | Posted – 8/18/2006 2:54:51 PM | show profile This is an interesting debate? I have kids and I am not in any way embarrassed to say they drive me crazy a great deal of the time. In fact it was only after I had them that I understand how people can be driven to the point of wanting to harm them. I have no adverse thoughts in regard to people who do not have them: it is a choice. I do not foist my children on them. And I certainly would not refer to people who are childfree by a somwhat distasteful sounding name along the lines of breeders? |
| Janetblueyes | Posted – 8/18/2006 2:59:03 PM | show profile I agree with everything Tarra said. I'm relieved to hear that newborns and kids don't make you smile. I feel exactly the same way. I've heard that some women can spontaneously lactate at the site of an infant. Kids annoy me and babies smell gross. I don't find their enormous heads covered in fuzzy down cute or appealing. Sorry, but leaking tits and a stretched out pelvic floor is not for me. If this makes me weird, so be it. |
| Angela Dobbs | Posted – 8/18/2006 3:27:25 PM | show profile Let's Talk About Our Wah-hoos In Public! I'm so pleasantly surprised that I wasn't bashed (yet) for my post. Thank you... What really upsets me (and I mean UPSETS) me is when there is a first-time mother-to-be who works in an office filled with mothers. The mothers start asking her very personal questions about parts of her anatomy and start talking about their own...often as if the whole pregnancy itself is one humorous stand-up sketch. "Well my bleep looks like a bleep now. Hhahaha." I don't need to know what a child sucking on my nipple feels like, and neither do the other office bystanders or the pregnant woman herself. It upsets me how much a pregnant woman's health, body and mind are violated. The public feels as if this pregnant stranger belongs to them. I've seen grocery shoppers pet a pregnant stranger's stomach. This really, really, really bothers me. Ok...one more thing a woman in my office has a daughter-in-law who just gave birth, and I had to hear how she insisted she witness the birth. OMFG!!! I mean...it's like saying: "Hey, do you have to go number two? Can I watch?" Then again, I guess there are some pervs who are into that. I'm finished... sorry. This topic gets me a little heated. (But not in heat.) |
| mailbag | Posted – 8/18/2006 3:31:11 PM | show profile | email poster men2 ubitig, as dribbledrive asked - what is the angle? Is it written as women-only story or did you interview both men/women? It is obvious to me that answers from men will be much different than women from reading these posts... we guys can not relate to something growing inside of us (outside of cancer) but I certainly can sympathize with something alive inside of me being rather odd indeed. If it is women only, and you haven't had succes in pitching, perhaps you could do a story on men and have both to pitch or blend into one feature story? Did you think of how the gay community handles this subject too? Or what do couples who cannot have children think of people who don't want children? :) lol. Could add more ideas but maybe too much for what you want. |
| Angela Dobbs | Posted – 8/18/2006 3:55:55 PM | show profile Good Angle! Really good angle about "how couples who can't have children feel about women who can have children and choose not to." |
| mkelly | Posted – 8/18/2006 3:56:03 PM | show profile Well-said, Stressed I have kids and I am not in any way embarrassed to say they drive me crazy a great deal of the time. Seriously, that's a sign of someone able to handle being a parent. I also think nobody can really answer the 'Do you want kids?' question accurately without considering who your other parent would be. It does take two, after all. I have no children, definitely would like to sometime, and couldn't care less what people choose on that score-- but the idea of establishing a 'child-free' zone in restaurants, now that's something worth fighting for! |
| writesonwater | Posted – 8/18/2006 4:05:02 PM | show profile | email poster If I had unlimited funds, and if it wasn't so hard on my body, and if there weren't already too many children who need a home in the world, I am one of the rare people who would love a passel of them. I love my kids. I enjoy their unique personalities at every single stage, including teenage-hood and the "terrible twos" which I personally found delightful. However, to keep having them would be irresponsible, because each one takes resources -- from me, to nurture them in ways that are in no way paid for by tax breaks, sorry to disillusion. THere's time, energy, money, food, education, etc. etc. I intended to have two, had an extra P.S. baby -- a good idea I didn't think of first. I am amazed by people in this day and age who have 7, or 13, kids, and not just because they don't believe in birth control. Mel Gibson's among them, for what it's worth (not sure where he stands on birth control). To me, I think that's an interesting angle and in some cases a better example of narcissism than the childless pair. |
| nyfem2005 | Posted – 8/18/2006 4:35:57 PM | show profile Very Interesting I find this topic to be VERY interesting. I'm childless and am not looking forward to having children anytime soon. This may sound horrible, but there are plenty of children in the world. Co-workers and friends alike think I'm very strange as well. I imagine that they feel and think the same way you do. "What's wrong with this person?", they may say. Or "What kind of childhood did she have?". Granted, my childhood wasn't that of the Brady children. However, that's not the reason why I don't want to have kids. Life is expensive. Personally, I would rather focus on me before popping out any children (yes...I said 'popping out'). I LOVE being childless. I love being dirty diaper-less. I love being too broke to eat out because I have to put my child in private school-less. (Does any of that make sense?!!) Most importantly, I love being free to do what I want, when I want and (as far as having a child goes) worry-free!! I, for one, would be VERY interested in seeing something on this subject and think this is a wonderful idea!!! "I do happen to think that peole who don't want children are "weird". I also think how horrible was their childhood that would translate into not wanting to have children of their own. I know its a gross stereotype for me to say that but its the first thing that crosses my mind when I meet people who don't want children. I know it doesn't answer your question but I thought I had to voice my opinion on this subject." |
| Angela Dobbs | Posted – 8/18/2006 4:50:32 PM | show profile Writing Women More Likely to Be Childless? I thought I would submit my original post in an honest effort to represent those women who don't want children, and maybe to get all the mothers out there really in a tizzy, too. Usually when I express my thoughts on why I don't want children, I am completely attacked by mothers and wanna-be mothers. And instead nearly EVERYONE on this board agrees with my thoughts about why some women don't want kids. This is such a first for me. Usually I get the: "You are are so selfish for not bringing another life into this world" speech. Or: "It's god's choice, not yours." Or: "There must be something wrong with you." But no...none of that (so far). So...my theory is that women who write want kids less than women who don't write. Maybe it's the idea that writing is a form of giving life to something so we don't feel the need to mother a person. Maybe writing is fulfilling for some of us, and the thought of "killing off" our creativity and skill by having children is just as extreme as abortion to us.... (Yes...there are mothers out there who still have creativity and drive...I know that...but some of us just aren't willing to risk it because there are some mothers who do give up their lives and interests soley to raise a child.) |
