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Topic: Salary requirment
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| Scrabble | Posted – 10/13/2006 10:06:17 AM | show profile I don't know if you have this issue, but I don't like putting my salary requirements on a job ap. I'd like to hear other people's thoughts on this. I've also pasted below some advice that was emailed to me, which I thought was good in theory. Has anyone tried these methods? Did they work for you? Instead of writing a number, say... "I suggest we wait to have the salary conversation until you're prepared to make an offer." If they still want a number, leverage your research to talk industry-standard ranges, not specific numbers. Strike First: Try to mention a specific salary before the employer does. This will start the negotiations in your ballpark. "The whole negotiation is based on that first offer," Pinkley says. Don't Commit Too Quickly: The employer often offers the job and salary simultaneously. Never say yes right away -- even if you like the offer. "I would always come back and try to get more," says Pinkley. Tell them you'll give them an answer within a certain time frame. Make Them Jealous: If you've been interviewing for other jobs, call those prospective employers, tell them about your offer, and see if they can speed up the interview process -- or make you an offer. Knowing you have another offer will make you more attractive to them. When it's time to answer the first employer, mention the other employers' interest to help boost your value. But don't make up imaginary offers. It's easy to check, and the interest alone will help you look good. Articulate Your Expectations: Tell the employer what you want from the job, both in terms of salary as well as benefits and opportunity. "It may be time off, flexibility about where you work, autonomy or ownership over a particular area, it may be your title -- whatever has a perceived value to you," says Joyce Gioia, president of the Herman Group, a think tank of management consultants and futurists. Negotiate Extras: If the employer can't offer you the salary you want, think about other valuable options that might not cost as much. Miller always recommends asking for education, which can make a big difference in your long-term marketability. |
| ConfidentDesigner | Posted – 10/13/2006 10:48:51 AM | show profile In the job I currently hold, I was offered one figure when offered the job but I said that I expected another figure that was about $8K higher than what they were offering. We ended up meeting in the middle and everyone was happy. Plus, they paid for my relocation across several states. |
| twine | Posted – 10/13/2006 5:37:42 PM | show profile Sometimes the ads say something like "applications without a salary requirement will not be considered" -- so how have people here responded? do you try to address salary in a vague way? |
| Vox-o | Posted – 10/13/2006 8:00:52 PM | show profile When it says "applicants who do not list salary requirements will not be considered" I still ignore it. |
| Marie | Posted – 10/14/2006 2:43:38 AM | show profile "Strike First: Try to mention a specific salary before the employer does. This will start the negotiations in your ballpark. "The whole negotiation is based on that first offer," Pinkley says." That is the worst advice possible. You get them to state a range first. And it it's low, at the early stage you just nod your head and say "uh-Huh." Deep discussions about salary are not relevant until they make you an offer. Places will go up. I't s happened to me twice. On applications, I never state a figure. It's never been an issue. But I'm way beyond entry level. so HR doesn't have that much to do with me, and I've never found hiring managers overly prressing about salary. Just ignor the phrase about "applications without salary req. will not be considered." It's a bullying tacic. Just say your salary req. are open and flexible. That way you've addressed the question. Any company that would throw out a resume from a qualified candidate who didn't list a salary is too stupid an outfit to work for. Now a huge contingent is going to weign in about "not following instructions." Again, we're all adults and beyond kindergarten. Once you get beyond your first job these problems go away somewhat. |
| joeblow-11 | Posted – 10/14/2006 3:55:54 AM | show profile My experience has been such that stating the salary you expect is the best way to proceed. Being vague about the salary creates more confusion and doubts in the mind of the employer. Sooner or later, you will have to state the salary you expect. Then why not upfront?? |
| Wolf Shadow | Posted – 10/14/2006 10:11:17 AM | show profile I've used the 'make them jealous', 'articulate your expectations', and 'Negotiate extras' and those techniques worked for me. I have never used the 'strike first' technique described (and I don't see doing that anytime soon) - as for listing salary, I only do so when someone contacts me and requests specific info (along with the statement to provide a rate or salary). In the end, I don't think it matters - as long as you find something that works for you and you obtain a salary that you are happy with. |
| Marie | Posted – 10/14/2006 1:20:37 PM | show profile Unfortunately, if you state your salary first, you might be lowballing yourself. It's possible the company would have paid you more. For me, the best thing is to have an idea of the range, which you can get them to spill out. Then I nod. Then the interview and other formalities proceed. Of course you eventually state your salary requirements, but my point is, the best time to give specific figures is when you're offered the job. That's when you get specific. I negotiate slightly upward from what they're offering.. Usually I can get a little more. Never accept an offer on the spot. Not only should you negotiate for at least a little more money, but you want to nail down the benefits. You need to know exactly how much you'll be contributing to the health plan, and of course the amount of vacation, the 401(k) or any other retirement plan the company offers, how long it takes to get vested--all of this affects you financailly. Also, does the health insurance kick in right away? If the hiring manager calls you with the offer, you should have that person refer you to someone in HR who can go over the entire benefit package with you in detail. Even if benefits were explained to you when you first interviewed, I'd confirm the details again before accepting an offer. Good luck. |
| MedScribe | Posted – 10/14/2006 4:17:28 PM | show profile Keeping it open is a good idea, but I also think it's good to state your minimum. I don't know about you but I'm not going to accept the best job in the world if it only pays $30K (and there are plenty of publishing jobs that pay less than that). I would say something like: "My salary requirments are open to negotiation depending on benefits and opportunities for advancement, but for your information I am not pursuing any position that offers less than $XX,XXX per annum." |
| Scrabble | Posted – 10/16/2006 10:16:29 AM | show profile Thanks for all the feedback. Yeh, the idea of striking first is somewhat flawed in that there's a high chance the applicant will say less than what the company would be willing to pay. I totally agree this is bad advice. I like the idea of not answering the question in the initial stage, and of holding out until an offer is made. I have stated a minimum on a few applications, but I feel that if the employer was willing to pay more, they may change their mind if they see you would be willing to take less. It's annoying that so many people ask for it. A) You don't want to undervalue yourself, but B) you don't want to put yourself out of the running by stating a figure that's too large. |
| Cyrus | Posted – 10/16/2006 10:45:28 AM | show profile In reality, there are two strategies you can take, but the effectiveness of either will largely depend on who you're dealing with. Both the "wait for an offer" and "comply with salary requirements" strategy have upsides and downsides. If you wait for an offer even though they've asked for requirements, a lot of places will put your information in the proverbial "round file" because you didn't follow directions. They do that in an effort to have a much lower stack of apps to have to go through. So, while it saves you time, worry, etc. to avoid the issue, you could be causing yourself trouble. I would ALWAYS advise waiting for an offer before you bring up salary specifics if you can. If you're asked informally in an interview about salary, give them generalizations. But, above all: Educate yourself. Know what people in your industry make at the level you want to work. If you do that, you can't go wrong and you can change your strategy as you need to in order to advance. Salary.com has reports that can be purchased on most any industry if you're not familiar enough to do it yourself. It's also very good advice to get them to give you things that don't cost much if they can't meet your salary request. Vacation time is the "gold standard" in this area. For some companies, it does cost them because they have to bring in temps. But for most, even though it has to be reflected as a liability on the books, it doesn't, so they should be willing to meet you half way here. ------ Cyrus Afzali Astoria Communications www.astoriacomm.com |
| Scrabble | Posted – 10/16/2006 11:15:33 AM | show profile I just had a look at Monster.com and it's very helpful. It gave me a ballpark, at least. I can buy a personalized salary analysis for $49 but I don't think I'll go there (being that I'm unemployed'n all). As I suspected, I have been underselling myself. |
| Vox-o | Posted – 10/17/2006 10:04:31 PM | show profile "STate your minimum" is a lousy idea. I mean, it is horrendous. You will either A/ be offered your minimum or B/if you are way below what the budget for the position, they will think you aren't qualified. Only entry-level people talk minimums. Hell, only entry level people state a salary for fear of having a resume thrown in the trash. |
| Marie | Posted – 10/17/2006 10:25:01 PM | show profile That's absolutely true. If you state your minimum, that's what you'll be offered, even though the company might have paid you more had you not said anything. That's what happened to me in my first job. Never made that mistake again. |
| LAEdtr | Posted – 10/20/2006 1:24:31 AM | show profile | email poster The ability to finesse the salary-requirement issue can make a big difference in landing a reasonable position at a reasonable wage. Your experience should give hiring managers a decent sense of what numbers might work, but don't play your hand too early. I negotiated 5K more at my current spot after I was offered. |
| questoo1 | Posted – 10/20/2006 9:09:46 AM | show profile often times candidates read more into it then need be. When I evaluate resumes for clients, I use that information to determine if we are even in the same ballpark. I can't speak for everyone, but Its not differences of 5,10 or even 15k im looking for. Its so easy to send resumes these days that its not uncommon for me to get a resume from someone at 80k applying for a 45k job. |
| Scrabble | Posted – 10/20/2006 10:53:24 AM | show profile I'm still not sold. If that's the case, maybe the employer should state the salary in the job description, or a salary range dependent on experience. The employer clearly has the upper hand in this situation. |
| questoo1 | Posted – 10/20/2006 11:22:39 AM | show profile still not sold on what? If you are ever in a position to hire something, I think you may be amazed at how many people/resumes are sent to you that have nothing to do with what the job description calls for. Be it salary, years experience or whatever the case, you need to have some criteria by which to decide which resumes you want to proceed with. There very well maybe some intances that an employer uses that to get a feel for what the market may bear, but I think those instances are way less then you may think |
| Metro Writer | Posted – 10/20/2006 9:32:34 PM | show profile Marie, how do you get them to open up about salary ranges? I need a script. In my experience (in other fields besides writing), it's a dance because the other party wants you to make the first move. I am very reluctant to do so because I don't want to underprice or overprice myself. My husband, who works in IT (when jobs are available) is always faced with this. He usually talks to recruiters and tells them that they have placed people in his particular field and that they both know that the client has a budget. I've tried to get around the "magic" number by saying that it depends on benefits (which are disappearing at a rapid rate these days). I've also tried telling them that I will accept a competitive market rate, but that this is the New York Tri-State area, and it's expensive to live here. (Think New York City is pricey? You'd be amazed at the rents in Stamford, CT!) The truth is that they just don't care how you live as long as you show up dressed decently and play the happy elephant. I read that some ritzy publications expect you to have a trust fund and lots of connections and you're supposed to pretend that money doesn't mean anything to you. I'd change careers, but it's bad all over! |
| Marie | Posted – 10/20/2006 11:27:12 PM | show profile That trust fund stuff is nonsense. But here's what I can address: When salary comes up, I just ask what range they have in mind for the position. And usually some figure slips out. What I have found is that companies that know they're offering a fair salary for a position usually don't play these games. They don't need too. I'm at the level where I really interview seriously with HR, so finessing the salary issue is easier. I have have some HR drone in front of me playing some stupid game. But if an interviewer starts doing some dance, I just ask again. Eventually, they'll say, well, we'd pay somewhere in the blah, blah range. Or they'll say we're thinking of paying around blah, blah, I can check but I doubt we'd go higher than blah. The last time I was on the market for a staff job was about a year and a half ago. When salary came up in the interviews, the interviewer was generally just trying to gauge that we were in the same ball park. So they had no problems answering the "range" question. I know what my bottom lines are, but I'm certainly not going to let some hiring manager know what they are. Again, I don't get into heavy money discussions until an offer is made. Then I ask for more, within reason. |
