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Topic: stelter attacks ny post & olbermann watch

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NEPatriotsFan Posted – 12/19/2006 4:21:40 PM | show profile
brian stelter has gone on the offensive and attacked two of keith olbermann's most vocal opponents (new york post, olbermannwatch.com) today. this is probably just a coincidence, though.

any more questions about whether tvnewser is a propaganda arm for msnbc and olbermann himself?

can't wait to see the responses. think maybe the fact that the traffic data he posted is for a completely different website may get mentioned? reminds me of the good ole' 25-54 demo and discredited live plus data posted by tvnewser every day!
TruthOut Posted – 12/19/2006 5:57:17 PM | show profile
Nope.
None whatsoever. I just want to know how much he's getting paid to be Olbermann's unofficial publicist.
brother-trucker Posted – 12/19/2006 7:14:02 PM | show profile
Boy that post was Brian Stelter's most pathetic yet. Good point about the site data he pointed to, that is for THE NATIONAL DEBATE not Olbermann Watch. I'm not going to sit here defending a right-wing site but if anyone denies that TVNewser and Olbermann are left-wing you are kidding yourselves.

The NY Post will probably ignore Stelter (funny because he's still crying in his milkshake about them getting the credit for the Katie Couric photoshop story he thinks he was first on) but Olbermann Watch will rip him to shreds. They've already destroyed his credibility with the Facebook.com stuff and his phony ratings data but this will be even better I'm sure.

And forget how Keith Olbermann's contract negotiations are going. What has MSNBC offered Brian Stelter?
gelcotwo Posted – 12/21/2006 10:45:07 AM | show profile
Where's Tired of the Slurs now?
No doubt fixing that milkshake for little Brian.
isthisyou Posted – 12/24/2006 5:15:29 PM | show profile
Geez, just grow up
What is with you guys and your Stelter rants? Were all your theories about his motivations and inclinations true, you'd never see any positive comments about FNC. That's hardly the case on tvnewser. You're coming off quite childish. I've got *news* for ya. The overwhelming majority of people in this country are NOT ideologues --on either side. Give it a rest. No one cares what you think.
Tired of the Slurs Posted – 12/28/2006 7:27:28 PM | show profile
Tired of the Slurs is tired of the lame, sorry anti-Stelter, anti-Olbermann crap. It's obviously going to go on being posted forever and ever and ever, because the losers who instigated it will never, never let go of it. But I have better ways to spend my time. That's why I stopped posting on the "TVNewser Biased?" thread too. I don't have to keep posting forever and ever and ever and refuting all the lies and garbage just to prove it's all lies and garbage. Or, for that matter, to "prove" anything...unlike some people. So...so long.
TruthOut Posted – 12/29/2006 11:12:17 AM | show profile
It's not lies, it's not garbage
and the bias is evident. It's why you REALLY have "decided to stop posting", you know we're right and you're wrong. You just have no problem with it because you're probably an Olberamnn fanatic or a friend of Brian's. Or Olbermann or Brian.
OneTwo Posted – 12/31/2006 4:15:02 PM | show profile
?
"The NY Post will probably ignore Stelter (funny because he's still crying in his milkshake about them getting the credit for the Katie Couric photoshop story he thinks he was first on) but Olbermann Watch will rip him to shreds. They've already destroyed his credibility with the Facebook.com stuff and his phony ratings data but this will be even better I'm sure."

What are you talking about? TVNewser was first on the Katie Couric story, no one's even debating that. The Post even admitted that, but used the weak (and completely untrue) excuse that once a story has been quoted enough times and been around long enough (it's been around for one day at the time) you don't need to give credit to the original source anymore.

Annnd what do you mean "ripped his credibility to shreds"? How does having a political opinion ruin your credibility? As long as he reports all sides (which he does, even though you can't accept that) who cares what his opinions are? I'm guessing you're a fan of FOX News, and I bet you don't think their conservative commntators are unfair do you?

And what is it with you Olbermannwatch guys and not undersanding the ratings? Almost all the major publications report ratings based on live+same day, just like TVN does, and the demo IS important. The young adult demo is what the advertisers pay the highest rates for, it doesn't necessarily go by who has the most viewers. For that reason the execs are VERY interested in the demo, and so Stelter reports the demo ratings. Honestly, it's fine if you have different opinions or just don't like a news source, but at least check your facts before you start crying about it.
TruthOut Posted – 12/31/2006 5:58:21 PM | show profile
Reality Check
Advertisers who are BUYING the commercial slots in shows do NOT use Live Plus data because it is faulty in the way it captures data. Most people who watch on DVR, TIVO, Tape, etc are going to fast-forward through commercials which is why it is not considered to be reliable for ad buys. While the 25-54 demo is important, the statistics still show that Olbermann trails O'Reilly very badly and has yet to beat him a single night in almost 4 years. He has never put together even a solid week of coming in second to O'Reilly. He has, at best, two to three good ratings nights a week and the remainder of the time finishes a pathetic fourth or even fifth. This is not a ratings trend. What MSNBC's fancy new ad campaign fails to mention is that overall, as a network, they are still trailing FOX and CNN. I have no idea what TVNewser chooses to site those ratings figures but they are NOT being used by advertisers nor are they being used by major publications as you claim because of the very fact that advertisers do not consider it to be a reliable indicator of a program's true audience.
OneTwo Posted – 1/1/2007 3:27:44 AM | show profile
An Even Better Reality Check
You are correct that advertisers are opposed to live+ data since that obviously raises advertising rates, but you are wrong that major publications aren't using that data more and more frequently. Many, many are using that data already. I know there are some who haven't updated with the times and started using this data, but just because TVN didn't wait until EVERY single other source started using this info doesn't mean he has an agenda. That's crazy talk. In fact, I'm not even sure how you crazy conspiracy theorists came to the conclusion that the live+ data is tilted in MSNBC or NBC's favour. TVN uses live+ data for ALL networks, so if you want to whine that he's somehow trying to make MSNBC look better, that doesn't make sense, since by your own logic he's makig all the networks, FNC included, look better. The ONLY person, in the news or entertainment devision of television broadcast, who I ever heard complain about the use demo or any other ratings besides total viewers, was Bill O'Reilly. And that was after other cable news shows (mostly even on FNC at that) began catching up to his own demo ratings. That's not the reason you're so opposed to people reporting this information is it? Because that would make you a puppet of O'Reilly, just like all those puppets of Olbermann you hate so much.

Also, I (or anyone else) never said Olbermann ever beat O'Reilly in the ratings. Or that MSNBC beat FNC in ages. What are you talking about?

If you aren't aware of the fact that many publications are using the updated data for both news and entertainment ratings than you either don't read many of these publications or you aren't aware of what you're reading. Again, if you want to cry about something, check your facts first.
TruthOut Posted – 1/1/2007 11:47:45 AM | show profile
Name those publications.
You can't because they don't exist and the Live plus Same Day isn't being used widely to report on ratings. There are newspaper and trade publications which DO list programming ratings for BOTH sets,one list for Live ratings, one for Live plus Same Day, but no one is solely using Live plus Same Day as the ultimate end all and be all of the ratings picture.

And there is a reason for that, and it's because the Live Plus Same Day has been soundly rejected by advertisers and historically, the Live ratings only has always been considered to be THE ratings list, not the Live plus Same Day.

It's evident that a lot of people DO in fact record Olbermann's show but it doesn't change the fact that even with those goosed numbers, he still can't beat Fox, not even once as of yet. Why TVN continues to use those numbers is a valid question, but it seems that the Olbermann fanatics on this board would rather the use of those numbers not be questioned because they show Olbermann & MSNBC in a more favorable light. The truth however, as it always does, always wins out, and in this case, using either set of data still shows MSNBC and Olbermannt railing behind O'Reilly and Fox.
OneTwo Posted – 1/1/2007 3:25:55 PM | show profile
So What's the Problem?
"using either set of data still shows MSNBC and Olbermannt railing behind O'Reilly and Fox."

Exactly! So than WHY do you people get so outlandishly upset over the fact that TVN uses that data? It would have never even crossed my mind that it could be a problem for any reason until I saw all the "we hate everything that isn't blatantly conservative" type people crying about it. Jeez you people really need to lighten up and realize that everyone with a different opinion isn't out to get you.
TruthOut Posted – 1/1/2007 11:09:42 PM | show profile
Because
TVN chooses to use a set of data that has been discredited by advertisers. That calls into question his judgement. Why is he the only one using this set of data when everyone else is the industry-standard?
brother-trucker Posted – 1/1/2007 11:33:31 PM | show profile
Because MSNBC wants him to. It's not brain surgery.
OneTwo Posted – 1/2/2007 1:16:22 AM | show profile
Riiightt
So would you mind explaining why other sources such as USAToday, TVWeek, Zap2it.com, and thefutoncritic.com, among others, use live+ data as well? What conspiracy is behand that? I'm starting to think you guys might actually need brain surgery.
OneTwo Posted – 1/2/2007 1:22:12 AM | show profile
Annnd by the way...
Live+ data hasn't been "discredited" by advertisers, as you say. It's challenged by advertisers, there's a big difference. Obviously they don't want to pay higher advertising rates, which is what happens when all viewers, live and delayed, are included in ratings data. The point Olbermannwatch is trying to make is that not many people watch Countdown, and so they don't want delayed viewing counted because that way it will seem like the number is even smaller than it already is. Whether advertisers want to include those numbers in setting their pay scale has absolutely nothing to do with anything, you people are really grasping at straws here.
TruthOut Posted – 1/4/2007 6:45:59 PM | show profile
It absolutely has been discredited.
Advertisers do NOT use Live plus data to buy advertising and it's the buying of ad time that keeps networks running. The reason TVN uses it, the reason Olbermann quotes it is because those numbers artifically boost his audience & MSNBC's audience. USAToday, TVWeek, Zap2it.com, and thefutoncritic.com? TVWeek uses both sets of data. So does USA Today. Make no mistake about the type of data that is REALLY used in true trade publications and within the industry itself. "The futon critic?" You gotta be kidding me. Oh yeah, there is a real "industry insider" site. LOL. Fan boy/gurl aren't you.
OneTwo Posted – 1/4/2007 10:22:29 PM | show profile
hahaha
I'm so glad you whipped out the classic "fanboy" retort. Not only is that the sign of a message board junky who's losing an argument and must resort to tired insults, it's more evidence that you are desperately fighting a losing battle when you aren't aware of what you're talking about. I'm don't think I would be considered an Olbermann fanboy since I despise him. All the loud mouth commentators on tv these days, both liberal and conservative, are destroying journalistic integrity. Liking Olbermann or not has nothing to do with this though, so I'm afraid you gained yourself nothing there. Also, please explain exactly where I referred to futuncritic as an "industry insider." You put those words in quotes, I'm assuming you at least know what quotation marks are supposed to be used for.

Also, while you're showing things to me, how about a link to where TVWeek and USAToday say they use both live as well as live+ data seperately, hmm?

And now I will explain this whole "discredited by advertisers" thing to you one more time and why what the advertisers use to base their rates on doesn't apply here, read slowly this time. You're right that advertisers do NOT use live+ data to buy commercial time. But that is a battle that is far from over. All networks (including Fox) want to include time delayed viewings for obvious reasons, and with the rising competition from the internet and other mediums in the last year or two this has become a very big topic of debate. Advertisers are opposed to this change, also for obvious reasons, but they have yet to "win" the battle and get the networks to drop the subject. In fact, it's beginning to seem that, for the time being at least, the advertisers are losing the fight (read this: http://publications.mediapost.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=Articles.showArticleHomePage&art_aid=52275 before you make another uneducated response) and Nielsen has decided they will start simply releasing raw data and let the industry decide what to do with it, rather than continue to be stuck in the middle of this. If live+ data has been "discredited" this battle would over, gone, no one would be talking about it much. There certainly would not be a war waging among broadcasters and advertisers like there is, let alone one the advertisers are potentially losing. To say that TVNewser or any other publication shouldn't use this data is absurd.

However, despite the fact that you are clearly wrong about the discredited claim that you back so vehemently, that's still irrelevent to what data TVNewser displays. Do you really think advertisers or networks use the data on TVNewser to decide advertising prices? No, they don't. That is worked out among themselves behind closed doors, what TVNewser posts has no affect on that. TVNewser is meant for the news people, NOT the advertisers. The whole point in Stelter posting the ratings is so those involved and those interested can see how many people are watching each channel, not for networks to decide prices for commercials. People who record shows and watch them later still WATCH the show. Saying that Olbermann's ratings are lower than we see on TVN because some of those people watched him at 10:00 rather than 8:00 is ridiculous and makes no sense at all. The point is ALL those people watched, and that's what the data means. To say that MSNBC wants this data posted and FOX News doesn't is just plain stupid, do you not realize that by showing live+ data FNC's ratings are boosted as well? Probably even more so than MSNBC's? What could MSNBC possibly be gaining and FNC be losing from that? Clearly you're geting most of your information from the comments sections of OlbermanWatch, and there's so much wrong with that I don't even know where to begin.

So while you were wrong to say I'm a fanboy (along with just about everything else), I'm pretty sre it's safe for me to say you're an obsessive hater, whather you're a hater of Olbermann or TVN or MSNBC or all three I don't know, but your insistance on making illogical arguments speaks volumes. Keep grasping for those straws though.
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