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Topic: Longest hours, most grueling job in media?
| Author | Message |
| writesonwater | Posted – 2/7/2007 1:57:13 AM | show profile | email poster Let's take nominations for the longest hours and most grueling job you've held in journalism or publishing. I bet there are some real horror stories out there. Was it worth it? Was there anything you learned from it, some way you benefited by eating and sleeping your job? How did you handle the work? Share -- it might make someone else feel better ... |
| mailbag | Posted – 2/7/2007 8:31:58 AM | show profile | email poster and what is normal please? Interesting question. I'd be curious to what is 'normal' actually by standards today. My normal day runs 12-15 hours (M-F) and I should say it is my choice. I think I'm addicted to checking the electronic wires... my refresh button has worn down from an incessant trigger finger. :) The result - far more published stories than any daily newspaper journalist... is this true for others? Are we digital journalists killing ourselves? Unless this has changed, I do not see that dailies accept electronic journalists as legitimate candidates no matter how many stories we've write per year. How many journalists at the NYT or WSJ authored +2,000 stories in 2006? (Blogs entries do not count, I'm only addressing real news.) |
| writesonwater | Posted – 2/7/2007 9:44:59 AM | show profile | email poster Thanks, Mailbag. I'm interested .... I have a friend who is editor at a monthly magazine and I see him working fingers to the bone, 15 hour days and not just five days a week. It reminds me of when I was EIC at a small regional mag group, and my hours were similar, although hidden because I worked many of them from home. My work as ME of a weekly newspaper was very similar. Is it our perfectionism that causes this though? I was very, very picky in these two jobs and also, my employers let me heap the work on. I imagine somewhere there are people who draw the line and say "I'm going home because it's 7." or "I'm signing off my computer because it's 6." |
| mailbag | Posted – 2/7/2007 10:14:08 AM | show profile | email poster "writesonwater -- although hidden because I worked many of them from home." I've been full time mobile since 2000 (in two jobs) and do know I work more hours than required - if for no other reason than I do not have a life... So, as I stated I own this and it is my choice. Probably a bad choice. This same issue came up on the mojo thread. He wasn't so clear (imo) on number of hours, but admitted he was not on 24x7 call. But, he does have a break if only in driving around hunting stories... I will admit that the only break is making coffee 10-feet away from my laptop. And posting here! :) "--I imagine somewhere there are people who draw the line and say "I'm going home because it's 7." or "I'm signing off my computer because it's 6." We should have a set time to end the day as mobile employees. It is up to me to make the effort and create a life off line and outside of work. Working is safe. No harm, no bullies to contend with, no broken hearts. At least I admit it. Do these other people leave because hey have someone to go home to? Kids? I also supsect there is no reward for working 15 hrs a day or publishing thousands of stories a year - when it comes down to it I really don't think anyone cares or finds it to be remarkable. My reason for asking 'what is normal' came from a competitor who asked me once at a social gathering if 'others in the newsroom publish under my name' as the volume of stories didn't seem practicle for one to cover... Can't say it makes me proud...rather depressing actually. |
| DHernandez | Posted – 2/7/2007 11:04:41 AM | show profile >>Is it our perfectionism that causes this though? << In the newsroom at Gannett, the first and foremost reason was lack of warm bodies. We had no overtime budget, and top management earned corporate Brownie points for leaving positions unfilled ("dark"). Midlevel managers had to up the slack -- in addition to handling a full week of management/supervisory duties. So ... Gannett department head: 70-80 hours/week, usually only six days/week, week after week into infinity |
| DHernandez | Posted – 2/7/2007 11:06:53 AM | show profile >>Midlevel managers had to up the slack << Make that "PICK up the slack." Ugh! |
| dribbledrive1 | Posted – 2/7/2007 11:31:05 AM | show profile Let's see -- I've worked full-time freelance, as a senior editor at a national magazine, a weekly newspaper reporter and editor, and in PR. And honestly, I've never worked more than a normal workload -- about 40 hours a week. If I worked more, it was usually because I was doing a freelance project on the side or working on somethinng I cared about intensively, like a novel. |
| tamdave123 | Posted – 2/7/2007 11:35:53 AM | show profile sweet mailbag Mailbag I know/have worked with people who dedicate their lives to work. I respect them and am impressed by how good they are at what they do. I often would tell one of my co-workers (who also is a good friend) that no one appreciated how late she stayed or how dedicated she was. She stressed herself out to live up to her own standards. She was above average without doing all that and could never be considered a slacker, even on her worst day. You know what needs to be done and you are right. You should be proud of what you've accomplished up to this point but make it a point to get out there and mix it up - share your experiences - teach what you know. At the end of your life, you aren't going to be thinking about work. Life is short. It sounds like you've already achieved professional success and can set your own pace. I am a firm believer that being well-rounded helps in a lot of ways - physically, mentally - and it helps you do your job better. You sound like an enlightened individual with a lot on your list left to do. Tammy |
| caitlinkelly | Posted – 2/7/2007 12:02:11 PM | show profile You may not be getting as many replies as you expected as the truly burned out are no longer working in this field... While some employers will grind you to dust, full-time freelancing can place unrelenting pressure to produce income without any paid holidays, paid sick days or paid vacation. I've worked while very ill or injured as a freelancer as no one pays you when you don't work. While staff, one reporter friend flew to Hong Kong and kept working -- with a broken back. I've worked while on crutches, hopping on and off a campaign bus. Insane. After the macho adrenaline rush wears off, you learn to not be so stupid and to take better care of yourself. I would bet that many freelancers have chosen that route to escape the hamster wheel you describe. |
| dribbledrive1 | Posted – 2/7/2007 12:36:51 PM | show profile There's an old saying: The best thing about being self-employed is you get to work half days -- and you get to choose which 12 hours it is. Seriously, though, the problem isn't the hampster wheel, as a freelancer. It's chasing, and doing, low-paying work. --You may not be getting as many replies as you expected as the truly burned out are no longer working in this field... While some employers will grind you to dust, full-time freelancing can place unrelenting pressure to produce income without any paid holidays, paid sick days or paid vacation. I've worked while very ill or injured as a freelancer as no one pays you when you don't work. While staff, one reporter friend flew to Hong Kong and kept working -- with a broken back. I've worked while on crutches, hopping on and off a campaign bus. Insane. After the macho adrenaline rush wears off, you learn to not be so stupid and to take better care of yourself. I would bet that many freelancers have chosen that route to escape the hamster wheel you describe.-- |
| mkelly | Posted – 2/7/2007 12:37:20 PM | show profile C'mon, folks-- the most grueling job in media is posting on this board telling people not to enroll in the Columbia grad program. |
| mailbag | Posted – 2/7/2007 12:56:26 PM | show profile | email poster dribble rules should apply to all Very nice of you to say those things tamdave - I agree with this too: "At the end of your life, you aren't going to be thinking about work. Life is short...." I even said that to 'meself' this a.m. Dribbledrive is the best example of where we shoud be imo. If everyone else could just make those 40hr weeks 'norm' hell - even 45hrs is okay, I do not think we'd be having this discussion. This issue in particular is a societal problem in the USA. I suspect dribble will outlive me for certain (unless he gets tangled up in a love nest with OJ out there... bad joke ok.) "It sounds like you've already achieved professional success and can set your own pace." Again, kind of you to say, I am probably not with you on that statement for my goals change and seem to reach much further than the past/latest goal met. Example -- right now the goal will be met when I see my latest screenplay on film. Might be a different goal in 10 yrs - who knows. Now that is my grandest goal to date and probably use waiting time to overachieve in other activity in order to compensate for the rather lofty goal I've set. So, if I declare failure on that goal, maybe the 'other' activity is something to fall back on... |
| SPF 30 | Posted – 2/7/2007 12:57:30 PM | show profile | email poster Back in 2000, I worked 14 to 15 hours a day, seven days a week, as a senior editor at a startup dot-com. This was in Silicon Valley, and everyone I knew was doing the same thing. It got to the point where I had no time to do laundry, so I bought 10 pairs of shorts, 30 T-shirts, and 30 pairs of underwear. That job lasted for six months, and my health and my relationship suffered terribly for it. Of course, we thought we were changing the world (didn't everybody?), and we had a blast. I wouldn't do it again, but I did learn a lot about myself and the need to set boundaries, in terms of my work life. Was it worth it? No. My health and my relationship suffered, as there was no room in my life for anything but work. My (now ex-) boyfriend was working the same hours at another startup, and we rarely saw each other, even though we were living together. And then, after that, as copy chief at a national magazine in NYC, I generally worked 60 to 70 hours a week (long days but no weekends). Was it worth it? Yes. In that friendly pressure-cooker environment, my editorial judgment and my management skills improved tremendously, and I had a lot of fun. My copy editors were fantastic -- the best I've ever worked with, and every now and then, during a crazy-late close, we'd order Indian food and stay awake by playing Uno and Scrabble. Ah, the good old days... |
| dribbledrive1 | Posted – 2/7/2007 1:43:54 PM | show profile Thanks. What works for me is deciding what is important to me. I prefer to spend only 25-50% of my time on "money writing," so I try to focus that time on high-paying work like corporate white papers and such rather than, say, consumer magazine articles which I don't really care that much about anymore (if an editor calls me with an assignment, I'll do it, but I don't chase them.) Then the other 50-75% of my time I spend writing novels. It's a good balance, for me. If I was really, really driven about maximizing income, I could probably make $250,000-$300,000 or more a year, but I don't care about money enough to want to make that my focus and spend all my time working on stuff I don't care about that much. When I do money writing, I don't care what it is, or how uninteresting it is, as long as it pays really well. That way, I can write whatever I want to in the rest of my time, without worrying about how much that pays. For me that works a lot better than doing assignments I kind of like that pay kind of OK. --Dribbledrive is the best example of where we shoud be imo. If everyone else could just make those 40hr weeks 'norm' hell - even 45hrs is okay, I do not think we'd be having this discussion. This issue in particular is a societal problem in the USA. I suspect dribble will outlive me for certain (unless he gets tangled up in a love nest with OJ out there... bad joke ok.) "It sounds like you've already achieved professional success and can set your own pace." -- |
| pleiades | Posted – 2/7/2007 1:57:16 PM | show profile Great question. I've been lucky. While I occasionally am required to work a few extra hours or bring reading (research) home in the evenings/weekends, all my editors have strongly believed in the 40-hour work week. Of course, I, like many folks on this board, freelance in addition to my currently full-time job. I chose this field with careful consideration. It was important to me that my work be something I love and something I feel passionate about. But, like many, I discovered even as a writer you often end up in a cube spending hours doing work that's necessary, but less than stimulating. Therefore I put much above work: my husband, my family and my friends. And all three of those things require time, something I'm happy to give. But, again, I'm lucky. I'm in a position where I can arrive at work at 8 a.m., leave at 5 p.m. and manage to get most everything done, as long as I'm efficient. I'm also in a position where, because of my full-time position and a working husband, I can accept or decline freelance jobs at will, depending on our financial situation and the time I want to devote to them. It's taken me a long time to get to this point. I've slowly learned it's OK if I'm five minutes late to work (I used to have near panic attacks in my car and honestly, I sometimes still do) and it's fine to use up all my personal and vacation days. There's a reason I've earned them. I've also learned to say no, whether it's a freelance assignment, added hours to a volunteer gig or something else I consider simply because I feel obligated when, really, I shouldn't. I don't know what to say to those stuck in a position where more than 40-hour weeks are expected. But I will echo those who've noted that life is short, and when it's all said and done, you'll appreciate that trip to Europe, or those happy hours with friends or those long family dinners much more so than hours spent working on something that, honestly, probably won't be significant 10 years from now. (Of course, I believe a personal project, such as a novel, is the exception.) And to those who say they have nothing to go home to, make something to go home to, whether it be a person, a hobby, a volunteer gig or even a blanket and a good book. Time is such a rare commodity -- we should value it as such. |
| writesonwater | Posted – 2/7/2007 2:41:35 PM | show profile | email poster Belinda, I identify with your Gannett staffing thing. I have had the joys of working on a shoestring in both EIC and ME capacity. THe good news, I guess, is that I'm versatile and hardworking, so it worked. At one point, my publisher took my weekly paper to twice-weekly without increasing resources hardly at all! I told him he was killing his workhorse. The second issue in the week eventually folded, for numerous reasons -- unfortunately, the dominant ones were things like ad revenues and printing and distrib expenses, not the half-dead workhorse. I do think Dribble is on to something about the hamster wheel being low-paying work. If I recall correctly, you have picked up some better-paying copy clients, right? Tamdave, I think you're right about nobody truly appreciating superhuman efforts, while great work is a winning thing. I'm working on the well-rounded thing. Caitlin, that's an amzing horror story about the friend working with a broken back. I once was so busy I didn't notice my new shoes didn't fit and gave myself ingrown toenails on both feet at the same time. How's that for oblivious. Stet.this, good point about setting boundaries. Dribble, love your ratio -- that's the best explanation I've seen. Pleiades, great advice .... |
| caitlinkelly | Posted – 2/7/2007 10:25:00 PM | show profile I'm more interested in hearing about people who value family, friends and life as much as their work, and it's not easy if you're ambitious in a highly competitive field. It's telling to hear about ex-boyfriends and I think many of us have seen, or experienced, the toxic effects of neglecting one's loved ones, or oneself, in favor of work. I've been most impressed by someone's commitment to working hard/well and maintaining non-professional relationships, both of which take energy, time and undivided attention. |
| Resolution500 | Posted – 2/7/2007 11:42:08 PM | show profile | email poster God I love these forums. Every time I come here, I quietly whisper "thank God I'm not alone" to myself. I'm the Art Director at a regional mag right now and it's not uncommon at all for me to work a solid 14 or 15 hours for 6 or 7 days straight sometimes.. especially during those wonderful deadline weeks. But I couldn't agree more with mailbag's first post... it is truly all by my own choice. Being a designer is something I absolutely adore in this life, and I could literally design pages in my sleep if I could. (Sometimes, in fact, I do... and they come out pretty impressive... giant snakes wearing vests rolling huge doughnuts aside, of course.) People always ask me how I manage it and how I deal with "not having a life," but to be honest, I'm pretty cool with having something that makes me this happy AS my life. The hours might indeed kill me over time... but what a way to go. Yeah, writesonwater, it's worth it. Every second. Bring it on. |
| writesonwater | Posted – 2/7/2007 11:59:34 PM | show profile | email poster Even though I still spend too much time researching and reading and writing, as a freelancer working from home I feel more connected but still neglectful. My dog is happier. My family probably feels like they see me more. I know they do. Oddly enough, to me it feels like it should be obvious that I'm working my behind off even though I'm home, but there can still be that "Well, you're here all day, you do it!" mentality. Remember Kramer v Kramer, where Dustin Hoffman is all long days and loving it until he has primary responsibility for his son? At least I got the sense he made the transition to more home commitment okay -- had to ... For those of us who must balance family life and making a living, it's a challenge and 15 hour days 8 days a week is not conducive... |
| noname1234 | Posted – 2/8/2007 12:37:53 AM | show profile What an interesting and thought-provoking thread. I too am one of those often buring the midnight oil at the office, only to come home, fire up my computer and keep on working. I reguarly find myself spending hours on minute details that literally no one will notice and honestly, no one but me would ever care about. People in my office often comment about how "hard" I work, which always makes me vaguely uncomfortable, because I don't really work that hard. I just, subconsciously, find ways to extend my work to take up as many hours as possible So why do I do it? I'd love to say, it's because I adore my work and can't get enough. But in my heart I know that's not the case. I do it to avoid my life, or lack thereof. I'm not married, no kids, I come home to an empty apartment. I would love to have a REASON to dart out of the office at 6 pm, to have something else to occupy the hole in my mind (and my heart) that I fill with pointless stress, anxiety and frustration over work. As much as performing the tasks of my job can sometimes provide me day-to-day fulfillment, I don't kid myself that I'm changing the world. I'd give it all up to have a life that enriched and satisfied me outside of the office. Wow that's depressing. |
| writesonwater | Posted – 2/8/2007 1:30:25 AM | show profile | email poster Noname, your answer is thought-provoking. I can tell you that some of us on the other side of the domestic fence find the grass just as yellow and withered in terms of having a reason to hang up the publishing apron at what should be the end of the workday. Sorry about the mixed metaphors. I have a family and a dog and a work-around-the-clock habit. It's my theory that my brain is driving my day planner, and that for me, it doesn't work the other way around. I am learning and working and thinking all the time. I am more productive than most people I know in terms of what I get done and what I learn. So maybe that's SOMETHING to feel good about ... |
| writesonwater | Posted – 2/8/2007 1:47:46 AM | show profile | email poster Just an idea .. if you want a life enriched outside the office, go outside to find it. Seek recreational or volunteer activities that will put you in the company of other smart, nice people. Get a cat or a fish -- maybe not both; reconnect with a sibling or a cousin or a church or a club. I recently decided I need more connection with the world around me because I get so immersed in my work, and have taken some of the above steps. What's that line from What About Bob? Baby Steps ... |
| tamdave123 | Posted – 2/8/2007 9:38:11 AM | show profile | email poster I just had to write in on this one more time after reading noname's post. I actually sighed out loud because of your honesty. The woman I wrote about has added extra therapy visits because she overworks herself. She is unmarried, no children, in her mid 40s with no family here (she's Australian). She does participate in a couple of outside things and she volunteers - this is good for her. A guy I know is in his late 20s, stays all hours at work and then does more computer work at home all night but he is very overweight and lives alone. He once told me he has nothing to do when he goes home so doesn't rush to get there and when he gets there, he works. I almost cried. My other very close friend is married with kids and has a long commute home each night. He leaves work on time but he is a stressed-out workaholic at work who is always trying to keep up with the insane assignments his boss throws at him. His head is always in his work, even when he is with friends and family (blackberry always in hand/phone always being checked for messages). His kids don't respond to him because they think he is visiting. I am trying to keep him from destroying himself. This is a big problem. I think people are amazing and am constantly trying to figure out what makes them tick. I am married for 14 years with a son who is 9. I used to cry at work and stay late and get angry at people on the job, etc. I learned a long time ago (since I had my son) that this life is short and it takes more energy to get mad and treat the dingbats at work badly. People who have worked with me over the past decade think I am nice, helpful and efficient. I pride myself in my people skills and diplomacy because it took me years to acquire them and it all started with realizing that work is not the be-all and end-all (even at work). It takes more than working hard to be a good worker. As far as going home alone. I have been told by others how lonely it can get at times (my brother, my best friend). Sometimes all it takes is to reach out. Even when you don't want to be bothered dealing with anyone because you have your routine, reach out to someone - even as a friend -and force yourself to interact instead of going home. Invite them over. Do this a little at a time ("baby steps" as someone on here said) and over time you will have a couple of close hang out buddies that maybe will lead to finding a permanent fixture in your life. Make yourself get out there and don't go into it with a negative attitude. You can change your life. I hated the unhealthy way I was so 6 years ago, I lost 45 lbs and quit smoking. I have maintained this lifestyle and try to help others get there. I am 39 and look better now than I did in high school. I definitely feel better. This strengthened me more than you know. I feel I can do anything now (except get a job)! All the best. |
| writesonwater | Posted – 2/8/2007 1:28:07 PM | show profile | email poster Compelling honesty on this thread. Great post, Tamdave. I have gotten to the point where I have to consciously schedule things in to my day that provide some variation from writing, interviewing, research. The word I want to use is ridiculous, but I don't think that's it. Someone else said pathetic, that might be closer. My brother recently was fired from a work-at-home editorial job that was pretty cushy, and has since taken a job in the city. An hour commute, no more pajamas-all-day, very 8-to-5 editorial post. He complains, but I swear it is good for him. (Haven't told him that). He interacts with people, and doesn't whine as much as he did when he loafed. I bless the day I quit the 8-to-5 (which was never just 8-to=5) and went on the own, but sometimes, deep down, I wonder if the transition was good for me. |
| caitlinkelly | Posted – 2/8/2007 1:53:56 PM | show profile It takes energy to nurture your private life as it does to make or sustain a career; living in a larger culture that reveres and fetishizes work and $$$$ and job titles is not helpful for anyone trying to have a life (beyond work), even work they may enjoy tremendously. Not to mention stagnant wages and a volatile industry that can make you always feel that whatever you're doing to stay ahead (or get back on track) is still insufficient. NYC and Toronto, the two places I've now spent most of my writing career, are filled with people who are SO BUSY with work that it's easy to feel like a sluggish loser if you, too, don't work 24/7 and actually don't want to. Many Canadians, like some Europeans, are more interested in a life that includes family, regular long (multi-week) vacations, exercise, community so it's de facto counter-cultural to openly value those things in a place that often does not. So find a partner and friends who get it, and want to come for dinner and go skating or whatever is that's not perma-attached to a blackberry, phone or computer. The cliche holds true...when really bad stuff starts to fly, and we have buried many friends in the past two years and are watching family fight serious illness, you may suddenly and for the first time rearrange what you consider "priorities." It hasn't lessened my work ethic, but it makes me wonder who really shows up to your sick bed, deathbed or funeral -- your colleagues/clients or your loved ones? I doubt they're one and the same. You can make work fill all your waking hours, but at the cost of the permanent loss of our most precious and irreplaceable gift -- time. Your kids, friends and family do notice it when you're physically there but emotionally absent. Putting all your eggs in the work basket is a recipe for disaster if you don't "succeed" all the time. How many people do? |
