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Topic: Who has left straight journalism?
| Author | Message |
| minty409 | Posted – 3/26/2007 1:48:20 PM | show profile For those of you who left jobs at magazines and newspapers - what do you do now? The low pay thread has me depressed, and wondering how the career-switchers managed to make the change/what they get paid currently (i.e. can you actually afford to have a family/children and live debt-free)? I actually started in PR - and now at 30 + - often wonder if I made a mistake. I have a friend who works in corporate writing and easily makes 4-5 times as much as I do. Thoughts? |
| writesonwater | Posted – 3/26/2007 2:46:51 PM | show profile | email poster I went from newspaper to PR to make more money. Here I am, years later, having decided writing's the thing. But the time I spent in PR will help me promote my books, so no harm done. Writers in cheaper parts of the country manage to live a bit better on what they make -- but the wages are lower, too. I live in Texas, and affordable real estate is a wonderful thing. That said, I turned away from a job as EIC of a regional magazine group that was not healthy for me, and I freelance so I don't make as much as I did. Again, thank goodness for cheap real estate, and for a spouse who makes more than me. ------ http://writingporch.blogspot.com/ http://jlouiselarson.blogspot.com/ http://familyrootsandwings.blogspot.com/ |
| minty409 | Posted – 3/26/2007 3:00:29 PM | show profile That sounds like a great situation. I have a double whammy - live in NYC and spouse is also in this low-paying field. Argh. So do you freelance report as wel as write books? What kind of books? |
| writesonwater | Posted – 3/26/2007 3:30:31 PM | show profile | email poster I will write for food. I do all kinds of things! I have one work-for-hire book out, done for a career job publisher, and a few non-fiction and one novel I'm working on in my spare time. I do a lot of work for a metro daily, and freelance edit for a group of trade magazines, and I write articles for magazines. There comes a time for some of us where we decide to put having a family and a home ahead of other things. We moved where real estate was cheap and jobs were ample for my husband, who is not in journalism but made a career switch to get into education. Which doesn't pay that well either! But he got a master's and is now in central office, which pays better. If your friend has any tips or leads, you may want to look into corporate writing. Why not? Then you can write a book. Good luck! ------ http://writingporch.blogspot.com/ http://jlouiselarson.blogspot.com/ http://familyrootsandwings.blogspot.com/ |
| writesonwater | Posted – 3/26/2007 3:37:36 PM | show profile | email poster I will write for food. I do all kinds of things! I have one work-for-hire book out, done for a career job publisher, and a few non-fiction and one novel I'm working on in my spare time. I do a lot of work for a metro daily, and freelance edit for a group of trade magazines, and I write articles for magazines. There comes a time for some of us where we decide to put having a family and a home ahead of other things. We moved where real estate was cheap and jobs were ample for my husband, who is not in journalism but made a career switch to get into education. Which doesn't pay that well either! But he got a master's and is now in central office, which pays better. If your friend has any tips or leads, you may want to look into corporate writing. Why not? Then you can write a book. Good luck! ------ http://writingporch.blogspot.com/ http://jlouiselarson.blogspot.com/ http://familyrootsandwings.blogspot.com/ |
| TVchick | Posted – 3/26/2007 4:12:17 PM | show profile I am trying to make a career switch into PR/Branding/Strategy and I know full well I will never miss journalism. I am quite tired of the process. It also doesn't pay anything. I have been reading the other thread too and realized how unrealistic I was back then when I decided to go into it. Now, if only these PR agencies recognized my experience and valued it, so much the better. |
| newyorker | Posted – 3/26/2007 4:14:42 PM | show profile I want to break into non-profit or corporate writing. However, it seems that you need experience in writing in these fields in order to get a job there. Any advice on how to switch? |
| dribbledrive1 | Posted – 3/26/2007 5:00:47 PM | show profile Many writers I know leave journalism in their 30s. It's not just the low pay. Often, it's the low pay combined with the sense that after 10 years you're just doing the same pieces over the over again. Corporate writing can be more lucrative, especially if you are talking about things like direct mail packages that can be directly tied to revenues. The problem PR has always had is it's really hard to tie any meaningful, bottom-line impact to PR activities, so it tends to pay less. The most I ever made as a staff editor was $40K (about 15 years ago). The most I made as a freelancer largely doing corporate writing was $160K (but as a caveat I should add that was for about the equivalent of 4-5 months of full-time work, since I spend the rest of the year traveling and working on personal projects like fiction). I wouldn't want to do corporate writing full-time because I would find it unsatisfying, but I'd feel that way about a magazine staff job, too, now. If you are a good writer, work hard, are disciplined about it, and target corporarte markets, making $100K a year as a freelancer isn't that difficult. |
| JeanMarie | Posted – 3/26/2007 7:32:27 PM | show profile 100K isn't that difficult? Are you speaking from an experience in a large local market? Or do you think it can be done anywhere ? (insert random farm animal noise here) |
| westsidestory | Posted – 3/26/2007 7:52:43 PM | show profile I moved from journalism (first magazines, then daily newspapers) into book publishing, where I've been for the last 8 years. The skills I brought to the table were honed in journalism - the ability to meet a deadline, for example, is apparently still quite rare in the book biz. I actually had a book client tell me, "I'll never hire anybody but ex-newspaper people ever again." Funny thing is, I missed the immediate impact that news has on audience. Currently I have a steady client in newsweeklies. The pay still sucks, but I retain my property rights. It takes about a day or at most two to write each story, so I'm keeping my hand in - and keeping my skills honed. But I no longer rely on this for income, which may answer your question! |
| df | Posted – 3/26/2007 8:58:46 PM | show profile After 8 years a Managing editor and EIC at lifestyle magazines I switched to pr agency, to corporate, to my own biz. All moves were good and never regretted. Best pay I ever had? EIC and corporate. Most work with the relative lowest pay? in my own biz. Greatest personal freedom and happiness? In my own biz. Point I am trying to make: money is valuable, but after a certain point the personal freedom you have to give up in order to make a six figure salary is in no way proportional to the gain in lifestyle. I call it my own personal tipping point. After a certain number if you increase your earnings the things you have to give up are non-proportional compared with the gain. If you really want to make money? Sorry to say so, no problem for anyone anywhere. In writing anyone who can actually write, is deadline oriented, dedicated, reliable and has a few creative thoughts with some initiative can make 100+k. If you can't break into that figure, ask yourself how dedicated am I really? Do I really work 10+ hrs a day? How much do I take responsibility for my work? How driven am I. Am I willing to give up a dinner with friends for a potential writing gig, maybe even twice in a row? Can people really depend on me? Meaning I will be there, even if I am sick? Am I willing to take leadership and prove initiative and take responsibility for my actions? Am I willing to write about anything? In any style for anyone? If not, no big deal, rember when thinking about your lower income the greater personal freedom you have. |
| writesonwater | Posted – 3/26/2007 9:37:50 PM | show profile | email poster What I recommend getting out of is most amount of pay with least reward -- I edited a very underresourced daily, briefly, before concluding I was killing my inner workhorse. More rewarding -- but still not worth it? EIC of an underresourced regional magazine group. Good experience, but again, why kill your own workhorse? When there's not enough people to go around, you can do that for a little while -- but when it's a trend and not a fad? That's bad. ------ http://writingporch.blogspot.com/ http://jlouiselarson.blogspot.com/ http://familyrootsandwings.blogspot.com/ |
| dribbledrive1 | Posted – 3/26/2007 10:41:42 PM | show profile Like I said, it isn't that difficult IF you're good, an aggressive marketer, and target higher paying work like corporate writing. One key is to work to develop higher paying specialties, which alas, may not be all that much fun to write. For instance, I do a lot of technology corporate writing, which can be a lucrative field. If you do white papers and advertorials, for example, those can be $5K to $10K a pop. I live in a large city, but my clients are scattered all over the country, and it really doesn't matter where I live since I don't market my services based on geographic proximity. The challenge most writers have is the stuff that pays well is stuff they really don't want to do, and so the boredom factor makes the projects a lot longer, sapping they profit margins. And also, honestly, lots of full-time freelancers I know don't put in full-time hours. But if you seriously work 40 to 50 diligent hours a week, you can do OK. --100K isn't that difficult? Are you speaking from an experience in a large local market? Or do you think it can be done anywhere ? (insert random farm animal noise here)-- |
| dribbledrive1 | Posted – 3/26/2007 10:43:50 PM | show profile Volunteer to write for a non-profit for free to get experience. Target corporations whose products are things you have written about journalistically. --Posted ? 3/26/2007 4:14:42 PM | show profile I want to break into non-profit or corporate writing. However, it seems that you need experience in writing in these fields in order to get a job there. Any advice on how to switch?-- |
| ros924 | Posted – 3/26/2007 11:15:41 PM | show profile | email poster This is incredible. I am looking to get back into Journalism. I have a broadcast journalism degree, I worked in radio for a while. I live in CA. I've been working at companies, managing accounts, working at non-profits (communications/outreach). Now I MISS writing. I miss the power & impact of words. The money thing makes me think twice, but I still miss it. I feel lost and feel I have not found my niche yet. Maybe freelancing on the side will keep me happy! I enjoyed reading everyone's thoughts. |
| df | Posted – 3/26/2007 11:42:09 PM | show profile dribbledrive, good point. #1 advise: become a specialist in an undesired not sexy topic, no one really wants work on. That will ensure steady well paid work. |
| Cyrus | Posted – 3/27/2007 12:03:50 AM | show profile PR and pay The notion that PR pays less than journalism is just not true. In PR, you actually earn the money you get in salary through your billings, much like an attorney or other professional service practitioner. So, if you're good at what you do and work for an agency with stability, you'll do very well. It's very possible to make 6 figures in PR after a decade in the business. Find me that many people doing it in journalism. And I say that having put a decade in as a journalist. Journalism has many, many rewards, but as a rule, pay will not be one of them. Many people may not find PR as rewarding, but in the end, most of us work to pay the bills. I'd say substantially more than 50 percent of people working would do something else if they were independently wealthy. As far as the original question, making money doing corporate writing or any form of PR/marketing is all about building a specialty. You don't want to do the same thing that scads of others do; rather, you want to build yourself into someone who practices a valuable niche that will be sought after. One of the reasons I don't do any consumer work in my PR practice is almost anybody could do that. Instead, I focus on complicated financial and legal issues, which draws clients that are better known, can afford bigger budgets and will be around for the long term. ------ Cyrus Afzali Astoria Communications www.astoriacomm.com |
| basenji | Posted – 3/27/2007 12:46:48 AM | show profile I jumped from newspapering into publishing by doing freelance work. Then went from freelance to full-time job at a book publisher, where I worked for several years in a variety of positions. After that, ran a couple businesses, got managerial and HR training. But I missed the publishing industry and am now I'm freelancing full-time. Before I made the leap to full-time, I moonlighted for about six months until I was pretty confident that I'd be able to make it on my own (at the beginning of January). I do a variety of different things. I write a weekly newsletter for one of my clients, I do some book editing, and I do magazine copyediting, proofreading, and fact-checking. I've also written manuals for some area businesses and probably will begin to target some corporate clients at some point. And in the past, I've done some ghost-writing. I really enjoy doing a variety of work (writing, editing, proofreading) for a variety of different clients. I still enjoy straight reporting, and my writing gig allows me to indulge in it, but it certainly is not my primary source of income. I've found that editing is more lucrative?for myself, anyway, and that is my primary income source at this time. For me, the key was starting to freelance while I still had a full-time job. And the business experience I gained along the way helped give me the courage to strike out on my own. I wouldn't recommend going full-time until you're sure you have some solid gigs lined up, though. I'm doing pretty well in my first quarter as far as having regular, well-paying clients. In some ways, I feel more secure working for a variety of people than when I was working for one employer. I'd love to see $100,000 roll in the door this first year, but that's probably not going to happen. I love the freedom of working for myself, but it's no cakewalk either. There have been several recent 16-hour days to meet deadlines. Finding balance between work and the rest of my life is a challenge?partly because there is so much work and also because it's always there in front of you when you work out of your home. When I have time, I write for pleasure. Just had one of my pieces published in a national magazine. I also enter the occasional contest. I do love writing, but I've found that I don't enjoy it as much if I'm relying on it for my sole source of income. Now, it's pure pleasure when I sit down to write. I write what I want, when I want to, and there's no pressure. The newspaper training was a great foundation, but it was only a foundation. From my observation, the people on these boards who seem to be earning a decent living aren't working full-time for a newspaper or mag. And they have business sense. |
| basenji | Posted – 3/27/2007 12:50:03 AM | show profile Just noticed question marks inserted in odd places in my above post that weren't there before I posted. Strange. |
| dribbledrive1 | Posted – 3/27/2007 3:01:18 AM | show profile Admittedly, it's not all that easy, of course. If you are the type of person who has the mind of an engineer, for example, you probably won't go into writing in the first place. That's why the demand for good writers who can produce technology pieces for the general public is high and pays well, while the demand and pay for, say, travel writers is low. --dribbledrive, good point. #1 advise: become a specialist in an undesired not sexy topic, no one really wants work on. That will ensure steady well paid work.-- |
| wineaux | Posted – 3/27/2007 9:46:05 AM | show profile I started off freelancing for various magazines and did various corporate writing right after I had children. I just recently left a PR job at a non-profit. I freelanced for a paper while working at the non-profit, despite the fact that the pay was mediocre. I wanted to write something besides press releases and grant proposals. The corporate work paid the best, but was boring, tedious work. The pr job was part-time at first, and paid o.k. When I told my boss I needed to quit, she offered me a fair salary to stay on full time. It was tempting, since my work was so rewarding, but we were relocating for the benefit of my husband's career and I had no choice but to leave. I wish I could have taken the job with me. I am lucky that my spouse makes a decent living, so I have been able to take low pay in exchange for the luxary of being able to write. For those who are able to make 100k plus as fulltime writers, I truly admire you. I am guessing I would have to go back to fulltime corporate writing to pull that one off, and I probably wouldn't be able to sleep. |
| maphop | Posted – 3/27/2007 9:47:27 AM | show profile I'm With Dribbledrive This is the kind of thread where I wish all of us were in one room together, around a table and with glasses in our hands. Dribbledrive is right - and so is Cyrus. I've done some of all of this - worked PR/marketing in a large corporate environment, worked traditional news (print, radio and television) and have been out on my own for ten years doing freelance writing and contract PR work. Every once in a while an editor or station manager will say "why don't you come back to work inhouse?" and are stunned when I tell them what I earn. I had one station manager tell me that, bluntly, I was earning almost twice what he was - and 3-to-4 times what his senior on-air reporters were earning. Here's the good news: if you've honed your news skills (can identify and zero in on a great story idea, gather news, quote and summarize effectively and make deadlines) you've got some of the most critical tools necessary to make the leap to both freelance writing OR public relations. The one critical ingredient that most people don't realize you have to have for both is marketing capability and the risk of hearing the word "no." If you can market yourself (your unique abilities, your unique skills) to enough people, you're going to hear a yes. And, in my experience, one yes begets another. Which begets another. Corporate communications work will always pay more than magazine (which will always pay 5x more than newspapers) but it's all about the mix-up, both for income, for speed in payment (newspapers pay 5x faster than magazines!) and to keep you on your edge and interested. |
| df | Posted – 3/27/2007 12:03:27 PM | show profile dribbledrive: if it would be easy, wouldn't everyone do it? lol. its not easy, but doable, if driven, dedicated and skilled. And able to sleep at night with a decent amount of pressure. I am not sure if PR always pays more then freelance writing. I would think the safest statement is 'sought after specialty' pays the most. in consulting, pr and writing. I am one of about 10 people globally doing what I do, and though it limits my potential clients, it also ensures a steady stream of well paid work. Focusing on a very pinpointed work specialty has served me well in my work life. I could do much better $$$ wise if I would be willing to go back to a corporate job, but I enjoy sitting in jeans and flipflops at my desk to much. Also my partner and I are at a point where we don't need to make significant sacrifices any more, having built a nice nest egg in previous work years. So I think its all about your current place in life, where you make a decision to make some sacrifices for money or other times you go back to more relaxed work terms. But the important message is: if you want and need to make money, you can. |
| writesonwater | Posted – 3/27/2007 12:58:23 PM | show profile | email poster DF, I hear what you're saying, and like Cyrus, Dribble and the others, it's good advice. The one thing I'd qualify is that this is not for everybody. Not everyone can say "I want to make more money, so I can and will." Not everyone has an entrepreneurial mindset. Not everyone like to sell/pitch, and to run their freelancing like a small business, which it is. And not everyone has the capacity to do technically-oriented writing, or persuasive writing, or analytical pieces, whatever else pays the big nickel. I write business pieces that require an ability to analyze data and raw numbers and extrapolate conclusions, and to be meticulous about it. This kind of work is not for everyone. And not everyone is willing or able to expand their skillsets. I see this a lot in fellow writers who enviously ask "How did you do THAT for THEM?" as if it was a matter of just knowing the right person. Writers interested in getting these kind of gigs need to know themselves very well, and ask themselves the hard questions. ------ http://writingporch.blogspot.com/ http://jlouiselarson.blogspot.com/ http://familyrootsandwings.blogspot.com/ |
| writesonwater | Posted – 3/27/2007 12:59:52 PM | show profile | email poster DF, you're right about that -- if it were easy, everyone would do it. ------ http://writingporch.blogspot.com/ http://jlouiselarson.blogspot.com/ http://familyrootsandwings.blogspot.com/ |
