| Back to Home > Bulletin Board > Current Events > Topic: What a way to go - the end of empire |
Topic: What a way to go - the end of empire
| Author | Message |
| UGoGirl | Posted – 5/24/2007 11:12:06 AM | show profile Now this is my kind of movie. Hell this could be me. ********* The movie centers around the awakening of the narrator, "a middle-class white guy" coming to grips with global issues right in his face that threaten his children's and everyone's survival. He tells the story in such a way that almost every modern human being can identify with. His expectations and world-view had been normal. He was a hard-working consumer who believed in the scientific, forward-thinking society that bestowed on him the historically unprecedented material advantages common in the First World. ...The documentary is in four parts: "Waking on the train," "The train and the tracks", "The locomotive power", and "Walkabout." So, in a well organized fashion, in just over two hours, the film thoroughly explores elements of our planetary predicament: how we got into it, how bad it is, and what our prospects are for recognizing our collective dilemma before it's too late. One gets the clear sensation of needing to immediately save our planet for the approximate half of today's living species that may still be around in a few decades. Review: culturechange.org http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rDJ6Nrj6y_Y&mode=related&search= |
| mailbag | Posted – 5/24/2007 11:50:11 AM | show profile | email poster Whether one agrees or not with Tim's message, one thing I praise is his effort to use the medium to deliver that message. (I am not one who has to agree in order to appreciate the work that goes into a media project.) Seems like he knows what he is doing on the production end from the two clips I watched... you already know though I don't like media elements that clearly point to a conclusion. :) I like to hear the facts and draw my own. This is the way film and editorial is going imo though... hell, grab a cam today and tell the subjects it is going on youtube - who would decline an interview? (Presuming the guy/gal isn't a nut job.) Youtube is already addicting as evidence of its daily traffic. Easier to get lost on that website than it is the NYT. (Hint: sell your NYT stock while you can. lol.) |
| UGoGirl | Posted – 5/24/2007 2:17:17 PM | show profile Yes, youtube is great. And I thought both trailers were well done, especially since they didn't have anything like a hollywood budget to put the film together. One thing that draws me to the documentary is what seems to be the creative interweaving of a regular person's story with interviews with experts, etc. I've heard there are like 10 basic plot lines in any story, so in this one it's the moment when everything changed. On the surface, it looks like his life is the same (same job, family, house, etc.) but his view has completely changed. In the story-telling plot line, the moment when the protagonist came to understand how her father made his living, saw her husband flirting with her best friend, found out she had cancer, saw an empty bottle of prescription pills under the car seat, etc. etc. In this case, how the understanding that we can't possibly continue on as we have been changes his entire outlook on his own life. We've all had a moment like this in our lives in one fashion or another. |
| mailbag | Posted – 5/24/2007 6:29:04 PM | show profile | email poster So this will air on youtube or their own site? That was not clear to me. I too applaud the ability today to produce without the help of Hollywierdos. Same too for having an online magazine - or online newspaper without the corporate backing first. The Internet enables anyone to be a journalist, or film maker, or salesman (for products.) It cuts out the structure that has - for so many decades - prevented equality in the media in particular. The issue is - how do we (struggling mediaites) keep some form of security? |
| UGoGirl | Posted – 5/26/2007 12:11:51 PM | show profile I love the internet. Check out this amazing documentary all the way from from Australia. http://www.abc.net.au/science/crude/ |
| UGoGirl | Posted – 7/29/2007 11:18:53 PM | show profile Now doing their The "Get Tim and Sally Out of Debt" Northeast Tour: Showing tomorrow in NYC, then onto Connecticut, MA, PA, etc. http://whatawaytogomovie.com/screenings-and-dvd-releases/ |
| catlondon | Posted – 7/30/2007 12:28:52 PM | show profile UGoGirl: Although you often highlight things I agree with, you are a fearmongerer of the highest order and your delight in potential doom tends, for me, to hurt your credibility and the credibility of the authorities you quote. Yeah, life sucks, and at moment we could all be killed in a car accident, trip in the bathtub and hit our heads, get shot in an armed robbery, be diagnosed with cancer, or keel over from a heart attack. I wonder who you are working for and do you really get paid to be so relentlessly negative? And how is what you do different from the fearmongering of the Bush administration? Terrorists or global warming/economic collapse, the message is the same, "You're all gonna die unless you listen to ME!" |
| mailbag | Posted – 7/30/2007 1:26:03 PM | show profile | email poster Personally Cat, I don't think that is fair. There is positive news on the econ (I suggest reading Friday's White House press release from the econ-heads Bush little hired.) Problem is... can we trust anything the WH puts out? The biggest issue I see in the numbers is... while whatever happens may indeed point up for some, what Ugo points out, is that there is a contingent pointing down too. These extremes fit well with our new economy. |
| UGoGirl | Posted – 7/30/2007 9:08:21 PM | show profile Well, I tell you what Cataldon, I've come to see that we really have problems. Big climate change, energy, and economic problems and I have the data to support all of them. What have I done personally to deal with all of that? My fairly recent awareness (past 4 years or so) has taken me on a spiritual quest. This will sound totally contradictory to what I may say elsewhere, but in the end (the real end), all of this may not really matter. In the end, it will all make sense, and all be exactly as it was supposed to be. In the meantime, I approach these issues as serious challenges we face. We can bury our hands in the sand or look these challenges squarely in the eye. Getting depressed about any of this won't help anyone. |
| Bleak Spouse | Posted – 7/30/2007 10:00:44 PM | show profile It looks like a poor man's version of An Inconvenient Truth. Bad editing. An Inconvenient Truth is a great film but I find it tiresome that when something good comes out a bunch of weak immitations follow. |
| catlondon | Posted – 7/30/2007 10:20:57 PM | show profile Actually, UGoGirl, I probably know as much as you do about the issues you promote. What I'm wondering about is whether you are paid to bait this board with those issues. I've noticed that you start threads all the time in the Current Events section but almost never contribute to the other sections of the board and that you have a progressive agenda. Nothing wrong with that because God knows the conservatives are baiting the boards constantly...but the frequency of your posts, the pushing of certain themes over and over have truly made me wonder if something larger than one womans' concern is behind your posts. Just wondering. But what really bothers me is your decidedly patronizing and paternalistic tone. But I guess I'm just too dumb to understand that it will take four earths to provide the resources needed to support a world that consumes natural resources on the level of America, that privatization of water is one of the leading threats to the developing world, and that while the fight to decrease maternal and infant mortality in sub-Saharan Africa is morally right and just, saving lives will increase population, which will further decrease the limited resources of the earth, especially since the stigma surrounding birth control in most of those nations is still very high. Of course, the United States and other developed countries are draining the Third World of their skilled workers, namely nurses and doctors, which doesn't help in the fight against HIV/AIDS and other diseases in poorer countries, so I guess it's good I'm too dumb to realize any of that and have my head buried in the sand. Yes, what I need are a few brief pulls from Krugman's column and some tsk-tsk's and no deeper thought than that. For Pete's sake, don't parrot someone else's findings over and over. Give us some suggestions to effect change or point us towards organizations and policies that will achieve a needed reform. Tell me, for instance, if you feel, as I do, that out of the three-pronged approach to reducing excess consumption, "Reduce, Reuse, Recycle", has Reduce--the most important element--almost disappeared from the environmental conversation. |
| Stanley_Milgram | Posted – 7/31/2007 6:00:14 AM | show profile The train has already left the station. the planet will not stop warming. this trend will continue even if a global moratorium on ALL carbon emissions went into effect today. the u.s. is expending more and more resources -- and raiding the third world and its own citizenry for it -- so it can chase what dwindling energy supplies that still exist on the planet. they will not stop. the rest of the players are simply trying to grab what they can -- through ballooning debt, consumption, etc. -- before it all comes crashing down. If you want a metaphor from Hollywood, try the episode of the Sopranos where Tony has sunk his claws into some guy and he makes the guy borrow to the max on all his credit cards. Then Tony even tells him what to say the credit card company to pry a few more thousand dollars loose (which he then must hand over). Bawling, the man asks, "when does it stop?" And Tony says, "I'll tell you when it stops. It stops when there's nothing left to squeeze." That's the mentality we have running the world right now. I wouldn't expect any leader to help you. Better prepare for it on your own. |
| UGoGirl | Posted – 7/31/2007 9:04:07 AM | show profile Cat, if you know someone who will pay me for my rants by all means please send them my way! That's interesting that you perceive that I use a very patronizing tone... I think that's one of the big problems with email or electronic discourse... it's so easy to read incorrectly. I'll try to keep that in mind since my intention isn't to offend, rather to vent a bit (especially with others who get it), to explore ideas, and to increase awareness. Part of it may be that I'm writing just snippets, not full length conversations. And if I'm writing anonymously, it's just easier to be lazy and not put much effort into massaging for the appropriate tone. Maybe you're not as lazy as I am, although you seem a little on the hostile side. Up until a few years ago I was 100% in the camp of yeah we may have problems but we'll figure something out. For some reason, maybe having kid and thinking about their future, I can't just assume that we'll figure something out and someone will take care of it (since after really spending some time looking at it, it's so clear that no one is taking care of it). Stanley, I have to agree with you 100% and while I'm trying to do a little bit to make our (collective) situation better, I'm also preparing my own little world to cope with the situation getting (or at least harder -- although in the end I think things will be better). |
| catlondon | Posted – 7/31/2007 11:42:20 AM | show profile Stanley: I also think you're right and I once heard a prominent global warming activist say the same thing off the record. UGoGirl, you frustrate me because you are so on top of the issues but just fail to take it the step further that I think you could--so there's a back-handed compliment for you! And I am pissed at the environmental movement, which I've supported monetarily and through volunteer work for ages, because they've completely sold out to American consumerism. They new message is, "As long as it's "green", you can continue to have and buy whatever you want!" Want ten pairs of jeans? As long as it's organic cotton, go for it. Want a 10,000 sq ft house? As long as it FSC wood! Evidently, I'm the only one living in a small house and limiting my wardrobe to two pairs of jeans. So that's my rant. Continue to write, please. |
| Mag Girl | Posted – 7/31/2007 1:53:34 PM | show profile Catlondon, I hear you there about the environmental movement. I actually work for an organization heavily involved in energy efficiency and making buildings environmentally friendly, and it totally frustrates me that the media pays attention to the "sexy" groups, but those of us doing great work - and the real technical work- don't get paid attention to or written about. I hope journalists of the world will begin to pay attention to us - we're working on it :) |
| UGoGirl | Posted – 8/1/2007 8:26:42 AM | show profile Cat -- a small house and two pairs of jeans, totally the direction we all need to go in. I'm probably there with you on the two pairs of jeans (my favorite shopping spot is the second-hand thrift store) but our house is pretty average size (certainly not a McMansion though). Unfortunately I've tried and I won't be able to convince my husband to move to a smaller house until the kids are gone. But when life give you lemons... since we have a little property, mostly full of trees and weeds, I'm making a serious effort to grow more of our own food. At least a little... On ideas to improve our lot, I feel I've shared a lot of them on this board already, but maybe not lately. So here goes with a few of them: - Greatly increase energy costs and use that extra revenue to improve alternative modes of transportation (transit, pedestrian and bike paths). -Moratorium on new coal-fired power plants. -Require cleaner technologies on existing coal-fired power plants. -Require long-range transportation and land use planning to show a (serious) reduction in greenhouse gases and vehicle miles traveled. -In all areas, make people pay to use roads the same way people have to pay to take the bus. -Work toward the electrification of our transportation systems. -Implement a broadbased propaganda campaign (if you want to call it that) explaining the serious consequences of consumerism. -Get out of the war. -Tax the wealthy and companies at a much higher rate. -Simplify the tax code so rich people can't pay much lower tax rates than us because they hire accountants. -Learn to grow some of our own food. -Limit globalism and instead develop local economies by providing various incentives. Well, that's a start. |
| mailbag | Posted – 8/1/2007 12:52:06 PM | show profile | email poster Bring back the Goods As you have said earlier Ugo: Adopt 'The Good Life' one of my favorite shows of all time. Why couldn't such a trend take off in the USA? Requires a complete change in thought. Requires bucking 99.9999999999999999999% of what everyone else is doing. Requires thumbing your nose at capitalism and the media. Requires brains: How do you make pig poo into electric? Requires brawn... for both sexes. Requires humility to ask your neighbors for assistance. I for one do not see these requirements surviving in the selfish culture we've created in the USA. Those requirements truly thrill me btw. Just need that little plot of land to get going (which I cannot afford.) |
| UGoGirl | Posted – 8/1/2007 6:12:34 PM | show profile Mailbag, that's absolutely true. If all of us tried to live even 1/10th as self sufficiently as the (yes, they are fictitious) Goods did, many of our problems would be solved. In fact, this would mean we were living more like the rest of the people on the planet (economizing, being productive, producing some of our own food, bartering, etc. etc.). I think there has been something of a movement going on this, the desire to live simply. Wouldn't it be nice if this became wildly popular and people willingly and happily decided to change their lifestyles in this way? |
| mailbag | Posted – 8/2/2007 9:16:21 AM | show profile | email poster I think it would remove the high level of stress involved in trying to earn $100k a year just to keep milk and bread on our table. yes. That is why it is A Good Life. :-) BTW - you saw the interviews in the dvd set right? A few did try copying that lifestyle. Wasn't easy but I wish they had said what was harder -- doing the work, or trying to keep up with the rest of the UK earning a living wage. |
| UGoGirl | Posted – 8/2/2007 11:08:56 AM | show profile No, I don't think it would be easy, especially if you have to think about things like retirement. And in the show, they had two healthy adults working at it full-time (no kids to provide for, etc.). I've suggested to my husband that perhaps we could try to live just a little bit more like the Goods. Actually, he may be short on work soon so in my ideal world he would embrace this as a chance to do more to "live off the land," become something of a father/homesteader. But he wants to work though and thinks we'd last maybe two weeks living off the land. |
| chucho | Posted – 8/2/2007 12:42:22 PM | show profile None of this is about buying products that do this or don't do that. It's a philosophical change that's required. (Electrical cars? And just where do you think electricity comes from? You guess it! COAL!) The quickest path to the answers of how to solve a lot of problems isn't finding God and righteousness, or even actually obeying the 10 Commandments (hint: there's no footnote asterisk next to "Thou Shall Not Kill"). It's about embrace a lifestyle and philosophy around Benjamin Franlin's 13 principles. And we don't even need to adhere religiously to them: they're ideals and if everyone genuinely did their best to adhere to these (and fail), the world would still be a better place: 1. "TEMPERANCE. Eat not to dullness; drink not to elevation." 2. "SILENCE. Speak not but what may benefit others or yourself; avoid trifling conversation." 3. "ORDER. Let all your things have their places; let each part of your business have its time." 4. "RESOLUTION. Resolve to perform what you ought; perform without fail what you resolve." 5. "FRUGALITY. Make no expense but to do good to others or yourself; i.e., waste nothing." 6. "INDUSTRY. Lose no time; be always employ'd in something useful; cut off all unnecessary actions." 7. "SINCERITY. Use no hurtful deceit; think innocently and justly, and, if you speak, speak accordingly." 8. "JUSTICE. Wrong none by doing injuries, or omitting the benefits that are your duty." 9. "MODERATION. Avoid extremes; forbear resenting injuries so much as you think they deserve." 10. "CLEANLINESS. Tolerate no uncleanliness in body, cloaths, or habitation." 11. "TRANQUILLITY. Be not disturbed at trifles, or at accidents common or unavoidable." 12. "CHASTITY. Rarely use venery but for health or offspring, never to dullness, weakness, or the injury of your own or another's peace or reputation." 13. "HUMILITY. Imitate Jesus and Socrates." |
| chucho | Posted – 8/2/2007 12:43:53 PM | show profile PS - I love Franklin (despite his faults). I love the fact that he says "rarely use venery". In other words, it's OK to behave like a slut sometimes, just don't do it so often that it causes injury to yourself or others. |
| UGoGirl | Posted – 8/2/2007 1:38:59 PM | show profile Okay, Chucho, tell me how you follow all 13 of those principles yourself? And thanks for letting me know that electricity is generated from coal. Silly me (silly girl), I never knew that. You've changed my life. I hope you can read in the sarcasm here. A. Electrically powered transportation is almost always more energy efficient than other forms of transportation. And B. We CAN get more of our electricity from wind, solar, tidal, geothermal, and (even) nuclear power. Spirituality (and FYI I'm not a christian) can't save the world but it can help a person accept the world for what it is. |
| chucho | Posted – 8/2/2007 3:59:32 PM | show profile I can't say how. As I said, if people tried the world would be better place. I'm more successful with certain ones than with others. I don't mean to diss your suggestion. It's good to be a smart consumer. My point is that the philosophy needs to change -- it seems the ideas always exist within a consumer mindset (ie, buy an electric car instead of a gas-powered one). PS - Spirituality is a personal matter, but I don't think being more spiritual (whatever that means) makes the world a better place. If the world were more rational, I think that would go much further. Rationality and spirituality reside in different places. I'm fairly certain if people kept their spiritual beliefs where they belong (self-fulfillment, coping with the concept of mortality, psychological balance, to themselves) that would be best. |
| catlondon | Posted – 8/2/2007 5:34:04 PM | show profile Churcho: There is a sub-set within Christianity that is very environmentally active based on their belief that people are stewards of God's earth--creation belongs to God/Jesus and it is their responsibility to treat it with respect, care for it, and nurture it. Not to do so is to basically to give God/Jesus the finger. Most will laugh or scoff, but if you are believer, this is a very powerful motivation and one that transcends the individual. That doesn't really have much to do with whether or not more spiritually will help, but I thought I would just put it out there. |
