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Topic: AIDS? or something else....
| Author | Message |
| mailbag | Posted – 7/6/2007 7:17:36 PM | show profile | email poster Maybe this is what one does when the media won't listen...do your own thing. Decide for yourself on 'The other side of AIDS' The interviews are quite compelling... including one featuring a science journalist who changed his opinion about AIDS/HIV. Film is free for now on google 1hr 26 min. http://video.google.de/videoplay?docid=7274049881792333623 |
| ManhattanMatt | Posted – 7/8/2007 4:10:20 PM | show profile HIV does NOT cause AIDS ... I've known this for years. Sadly, the medical establishment will never admit this, because "managing" AIDS is far more lucrative than CURING it. |
| mailbag | Posted – 7/8/2007 4:29:58 PM | show profile | email poster I don't consider myself living under a rock Matt... but if this knowledge is "well known" why don't I know? Why don't people in my family know? True this film is already 3 yrs old, so it had a chance to get around. It is the first I've heard of this issue. I lost two male cousins to "it" whatever it is -- HIV or AIDS, who knows now? You can imagine what is going through my head if their deaths were actually caused by weekly visits to the pharmacy... |
| ManhattanMatt | Posted – 7/8/2007 8:23:37 PM | show profile I've lost a hell of a lot more friends to AIDS ... ...than just *two*. And I never said the fact that HIV does NOT cause AIDS is "well known". On the contrary, the medical establishment and the pharmaceutical industry, along with our predominantly politically correct media culture (never blame the "victim"), have done a brilliant job of covering up the REAL facts. |
| mailbag | Posted – 7/8/2007 9:17:02 PM | show profile | email poster I don't follow the victim comment. If drug makers are the ones behind hiding the truth, through their slick pr teams, I see this more of a regulation issue than anything else. When did the FDA start approving these drugs without testing? And, so it seems at least from that film, why would drugs be approved for a condition that never was proven to exist in the first place? Where does the gay community stand on this issue? I see this film made a few debuts at gay film festivals, but don't know what gay theme media outlets say on this topic. |
| Mag Girl | Posted – 7/8/2007 10:33:32 PM | show profile I don't know...maybe this would make more sense if there weren't millions upon millions in Africa and elsewhere in the world who go untreated with no real hope of having funding for medicines whose sale would benefit drug companies. ANd they aren't even receiving medical treatment for the most part. How do you explain away those people there? Plus, even Ms. Maggiore's daughter died after the making of this film and the autopsy concluded she died of opportunistic lung infections (I believe that's what it was) due to advanced complications from AIDS. She got another AIDS "dissident", who was not a medical doctor, to review the autposy and conclude it was from an allergic reaction. Dozens of other medical experts disagreed. It's an interesting subject, and it does concern me there hasn't been published material identifying the actual virus (according to this documentary anyway), but to say it's a FACT that HIV does not cause AIDS or it doesn't exist is pretty preposterous to me. |
| ManhattanMatt | Posted – 7/8/2007 11:22:06 PM | show profile There IS no virus that causes AIDS ... ...that's the point. What's causing AIDS in the U.S. is a combination of two things: Massive and consistent long-term drug abuse by homosexual men and drug addicts ... and AZT, the alleged "treatment". In Africa, AIDS is an entirely different story. What we're seeing in Africa are people falling ill to a multitude of OTHER diseases that don't really carry the AIDS hallmark (Carposi's Sarcoma) that are the result of compromised immune systems caused by malnutrition and little or no access to health care. However, eager to jump on the AIDS bandwagon, health authorities in Africa started reclassifying diseases that have nothing to do with "AIDS" as being AIDS-related. |
| seeattleme | Posted – 7/9/2007 1:15:36 AM | show profile I worked with Randy Shilts on Conduct Unbecoming for a bit (he was near deathm I was just doing last round fact checking) and talked with him a bit about this. It's true, if you think you have HIV and start treating it, and end up not devloping AIDS, (I don't know the stats but some do not) someone is making a lot of $$$. What about AZT for HIV positive pregnant women? How does that work? Does AZT allow AIDS to develop, just more slowly, and thus a wpman who is HIV positive and pregnant must decide between her life and the life of her unborn? Obviously there is media coverup--what medical writer wants to be blacklisted from companies that sell billions of dollars of drugs worth a year to "treat" HIV and AIDS? |
| ManhattanMatt | Posted – 7/9/2007 1:20:30 AM | show profile AGAIN ... there is no evidence that HIV causes AIDS. Anywhere. Even after all these years. We've built an entire mega-industry on an ASSUMPTION, and an incorrect one at that. Humans carry many innocuous viruses in their bodies that do no harm. HIV is one of them. Always has been. The only difference is that in the early '80s, Dr. Robert Gallo arbitrarily pegged AIDS on HIV, simply because he saw evidence that HIV was present in SOME AIDS cases (not all, interestingly enough). AIDS is caused by drug abuse ... and by AZT, once people who learn they're "infected" with HIV (an otherwise innocuous virus that may have been there all their lives) ... and start treatment. |
| seeattleme | Posted – 7/9/2007 2:36:51 AM | show profile ok but what about that kid Ryan White, who died when he was like 12 or something of AIDS? I doubt he was using drugs...how did he devlop AIDS to the point of death? |
| ManhattanMatt | Posted – 7/9/2007 2:58:02 AM | show profile Ryan White ... ...according to records still on file in Indiana, did NOT die of any of the bona-fide "AIDS" diseases. His official cause of death was a massive hemorrhage due to hemophelia. It's on the record. |
| seeattleme | Posted – 7/9/2007 3:11:42 PM | show profile ok, but how did he develop AIDS if he didn't use drugs? Was he on AZT? |
| ManhattanMatt | Posted – 7/9/2007 4:41:26 PM | show profile Yes. But he didn't develop "AIDS". What AZT does to hemophiliacs is it essentially bleeds them to death. Had Ryan White not been caught up in the AIDS hysteria, AZT would have been the absolute LAST drug doctors would have given him. It's like treating alcoholism with Scotch. |
| seeattleme | Posted – 7/9/2007 5:37:06 PM | show profile so how did he contract the AIDS virus to begin with? |
| ManhattanMatt | Posted – 7/9/2007 7:55:32 PM | show profile There IS no "AIDS virus" ... That's the whole point. HIV and AIDS are two completely different things. "AIDS" ... Acquired Immune Deficiency Syndrome ... is a bit of a misnomer. You don't "acquire" it, you DEVELOP it. It's not caused by an external organism, it's caused by long-term and consistent drug abuse, and/or going on AZT "therapy". HIV is an innocuous virus, much like hundreds of other benign viruses that live in humans, and is most often passed on from mother to baby, or through sexual contact. Ryan White is a case of a situational "perfect storm": a medical establishment fresh on the heels of (incorrectly) fingering HIV as the "cause" of AIDS, eager to reclassify entire classes of previously non-connected illnesses under this new AIDS umbrella ... a pharmaceutical industry frothing at the mouth at the prospect of repackaging and selling an old drug (AZT) to "cure" a whole new "epidemic" ... and a young, severerly hemophiliac boy who just happened to get a blood transfusion (and subsequent HIV test) in the wrong place at the wrong time. Yes, Ryan White somehow "contracted" HIV, either from his mother or through a blood transfustion. But that means nothing, since HIV is an innocuous virus that does no harm. What actually caused Ryan White's ultimate death is the aggressive treatment of AZT his doctors put him on after discovering HIV in his system. Did Ryan White even have AIDS? His doctors didn't even list it as the cause of death on his death certificate. His official cause of death (which is on the public record) is "massive hemorrhage due to hemophelia". |
| Mag Girl | Posted – 7/9/2007 9:14:27 PM | show profile ManhattanMatt, as this video says, there is no "proof" that HIV causes AIDS. But you also have no proof- what makes you an expert? Absence of proof to the contrary does not equal truth. |
| ManhattanMatt | Posted – 7/9/2007 9:29:07 PM | show profile The anecdotal evidence ... ...FAR outweighs what the medical/pharmaceutical establishment is telling us. Why is it that so many people have died of AIDS (more than 2400 documented cases), who were HIV *negative* ... if AIDS is "caused" by HIV? Why is it that Arthur Ashe and Magic Johnson were both "infected" with HIV at roughly the same time ... yet Ashe was dead within a year once he went on AZT drug "therapy" ... while Johnson, who quickly dropped HIS drug therapy, 15 years later is not only healthy, but went on to win a gold medal in the Olympics? Why is Rock Hudson's longtime lover still alive and healthy 22 years after Hudson's death of AIDS? |
| seeattleme | Posted – 7/10/2007 1:16:37 AM | show profile So Ryan White did not have AIDS or HIV? I'm not sure what exactly he had, and I still have no idea how he got it. You cite drug abuse and AZT--which caused him to develop AIDS? . And did what killed him have nothing to do with either? |
| seeattleme | Posted – 7/10/2007 1:17:48 AM | show profile So you can tie every AIDS related death to AZT? It wouldn't be the reason (same reason) why some live with cancer for years and others die from it within 6 months? |
| seeattleme | Posted – 7/10/2007 1:19:07 AM | show profile And somewhat related: What treatment is Andrew Sullivan on and what was he diagnosed with? |
| ManhattanMatt | Posted – 7/10/2007 4:55:41 AM | show profile Answers. I don't know who Andrew Sullivan is. We're not talking about cancer here. And I don't know whether Ryan White ever DID have AIDS. His death certificate, however, says he did NOT die from it. |
| mailbag | Posted – 7/10/2007 6:03:58 AM | show profile | email poster Mag girl For that matter Maggirl, what makes any of the non-medical people in that doco 'experts'? None of them have medical degrees -- but I must say I'd trust Christine Maggiore over any docta... Anecdotal evidence works for me personally. Someone without an agenda, someone on a quest to find truth. That is suppose to be the role of a journalist -- is it not? |
| Mag Girl | Posted – 7/10/2007 9:15:40 AM | show profile But it's only anecdotal "evidence" from a handful of people. And during a lot of the interviews, it didn't even seem like any of them were making a point. I don't really blindly trust Maggiore on this because she does not believe in modern mainstream medicine in general, from what I've read, so of course she's not going to buy into treatment for HIV/AIDS or anything else for that matter. She is not an unbiased source of evidence or anecdotes of any kind. And of course journalists need to be skeptical, but make it a healthy dose and be skeptical of all sides, not just one. Otherwise you just start bodering on paranoia. |
| mailbag | Posted – 7/10/2007 10:41:39 AM | show profile | email poster Agree maggirl. So, where is the objectivity in mainstream articles in the NYT or elsewhere on AIDS/HIV? They ignore Christine because she is not normal? That girl is hardly a yookie from skokie -- or one of Michael Moore's talent pool. She is quite articulate and I think well read. As I already said - I'm not aware of this "other side" being told in our mainstream press. I too am skeptical about modern medicine because a simple pill that I buy in NY for allergies, and costs $110 per bottle of 10, is 5 Euro in Paris for 15 pills and does not require a prescription. Something is beyond bloody wrong with this picture and that ties into what these people are saying about drugs, this government and this special interest group set on selling prescription drugs. Me totally thinks this has more to do with advertising $$$s than reporting truth. Drug makers spend big bucks to advertise their drugs. Great relationship in a dying profession starved for that ad spend. |
| Mag Girl | Posted – 7/10/2007 11:09:16 AM | show profile Believing in modern medicine and believing in the good intentions of the pharmaceutical field are two different things :) I personally think the pharmaceutical field is a big pile of poo, but that's another topic altogether than whether or not a virus causes AIDS. Yes, they do come up with life-saving medicines, but I think pharm cos. have no business advertising to consumers, period. Drug prices are low elsewhere because we Americans are single-handedly subsidizing the world. We pay more because other nations have governments that (HORRORS!) negotiate drug prices through their single-payer systems. If pharm cos. didn't spend millions on advertising, they could spend that on R&D and not rape the bank accounts of Americans so much to make up for the difference. ANd for some Americans to say, let the healthcare free market settle itself out, I say free market my ass. |
