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Topic: Hold on one darn minute: Skip from boy to Journo
| Author | Message |
| mailbag | Posted – 7/21/2007 12:53:26 PM | show profile | email poster Ok guys - please educate me a bit. I stumbled upon a youtube video by James Kotecki -- and his interview of John Edwards. His 'stuff' is under EmergencyCheese. Being the skeptic that I am... I immediately wondered how 'this kid' digitally remastered footage of an Edwards interview for his own youtube. Then I noticed his other interviews of prominent figs. They are real. Checked out his 'blog' and found he's become a star in the media world. Most of you have TV... I don't. How does he make a living? Where did he come from (yeah, I know wiki said Syracuse.) I mean... how did this kid become a powerful enough journalist to get interviews with Edwards, Dan Rather, Kucinich, Huckabee, and others? I see no bio on his blog. Here is a tough question I ask those of you here with JOBS at the moment: "Why am I not watching your video(s) of prominent figure interviews?" |
| mailbag | Posted – 7/21/2007 12:54:59 PM | show profile | email poster UGH - sorry I meant WITHOUT jobs. What a horrific and stupid omission! .....Here is a tough question I ask those of you here withOUT jobs at the moment: "Why am I not watching your video(s) of prominent figure interviews?" |
| dribbledrive1 | Posted – 7/21/2007 2:58:53 PM | show profile It's pretty straightforward. He was a recent college graduate who started putting up on YouTube his critiques of the films candidates were putting up on YouTube. His videos caught on and a few candidates responded to his critiques online. He probably makes a living now doing speaking engagements at colleges. |
| dribbledrive1 | Posted – 7/21/2007 3:01:00 PM | show profile It's not that tough a question. Plenty of people have done and are doing the same thing this guy has done, but they just haven't caught on. Your question is similar to asking why, if one blogger became hughly successful and got a $1 million book deal, why haven't all blogger become hugely successful and gotten big book deals. --.....Here is a tough question I ask those of you here withOUT jobs at the moment: "Why am I not watching your video(s) of prominent figure interviews?" -- |
| mailbag | Posted – 7/21/2007 3:09:19 PM | show profile | email poster adding another ? I don't think DD that answers the question. How many threads on this board seek advice in breaking in to journalism, and or, how many comments on this board are about such a tough time in finding a job? (Or how to begin freelance, which is your expertise.) To my knowledge - no one I've read about here anyway have their own news broadcasts on youtube. (If so, speak up, lets see you.) Second question -- what do / does / would traditional media orgs think about James' qualifications vs yours (yours being the more traditional journalist with degree in the profession and a history of clips/reporting, whatever.) Will they find James' experience over yours? Would love to hear from those on the job search respond to this. |
| JeanMarie | Posted – 7/21/2007 6:53:45 PM | show profile | email poster I'm not sure I understand why you wouldn't call him a journalist. Aren't his "clips" the work he's doing? Are traditional journalists really that elitetest or are they just hearing footsteps? |
| JeanMarie | Posted – 7/21/2007 6:54:13 PM | show profile Sorry for the typo. |
| mailbag | Posted – 7/21/2007 7:43:59 PM | show profile | email poster Good question JeanMarie. What makes James a journalist if indeed he is? Who decides? Has he sworn to uphold the ethics of this profession or is that passe' nowadays? What makes David from Dallas -- who reports on the weather in his back yard for youtube -- just David or is he a journalist too? Does 10,000 youtube subscribers mean by default one is a legitimate journalist because s/he is popular? Or is it still about content (only 10 subscribers, but in-depth reporting.) I have a hunch that so called elitist journalists 1) don't hang out here, and 2) don't watch videos on youtube. Therefore aren't likely to even know what is going on in this profession - my view anyway. Still... wondering about those out of work and what they think of this broadcast concept online while waiting for something better. |
| dribbledrive1 | Posted – 7/21/2007 8:16:08 PM | show profile Personally, I think putting your video commentaries on YouTube is not different than writing a blog -- nothing wrong with it, if that's what you want to, but it most likely won't lead anywhere and few people will have the success this guy did. In the Internet age, anyone can put up any material they like, and if they are good enough and lucky enough, they can develop a following. I am not sure if there's any real point in trying to decide which of the bloggers/video essayists should be called a journalist or a commentary or whatever label you want to use. --Good question JeanMarie. What makes James a journalist if indeed he is? Who decides? Has he sworn to uphold the ethics of this profession or is that passe' nowadays? What makes David from Dallas -- who reports on the weather in his back yard for youtube -- just David or is he a journalist too? Does 10,000 youtube subscribers mean by default one is a legitimate journalist because s/he is popular? Or is it still about content (only 10 subscribers, but in-depth reporting.) I have a hunch that so called elitist journalists 1) don't hang out here, and 2) don't watch videos on youtube. Therefore aren't likely to even know what is going on in this profession - my view anyway. Still... wondering about those out of work and what they think of this broadcast concept online while waiting for something better. [[ |
| mailbag | Posted – 7/21/2007 8:45:35 PM | show profile | email poster I agree with your first points DD. Won't comment right now on what I think qualifies one to define him/herself as a journalist. Why do you think John Edwards, Rather, and all the others granted him an interview? Were these men bored (well, Rather perhaps is) the politicians don't have bigger media outlets chasing them at the moment in between speeches and fundraisers? |
| noname1234 | Posted – 7/22/2007 12:43:30 AM | show profile I would imagine that the politicians agree to be interviewed by someone like this kid because they realize that he might reach a different audience that the traditional outlets do. I'm generally all for citizen journalism -- why should the gathering and disseminating of information be (in large part) dicated by giant media companies? And since the technology allows it, why shouldn't more people -- even those who live outside major cities, who have no "insider" connections into media companies, who perhaps can't afford expensive graduate schools or unpaid internships -- be able to contribute to the conversations about our society? |
| mailbag | Posted – 7/22/2007 10:10:28 AM | show profile | email poster "noname --...why should the gathering and disseminating of information be (in large part) dicated by giant "companies? And since the technology allows it, why shouldn't more people -- even those who live outside major cities, who have no "insider" connections into media companies, who perhaps can't afford expensive graduate schools or unpaid internships -- be able to contribute to the conversations about our society?" noname, I think I'd make a great high school teacher (ok, maybe university too, not sure why I'd prefer the high school classroom - perhaps optimism in my ability to encourage kids to write.) Using the path you described, I could walk into any high school, find a vacant room and start teaching to any teen that walks in. I like the idea. I like not having rules or norms. So, why is that not possible? To a second point, which I keep asking here, with what you described -- how is it that there are any MB posters at all looking for advice on how to break in, or for seeking contacts, or for that matter worried about having lost their job. How can anyone in this profession complain about not having work given what you just said? |
| noname1234 | Posted – 7/22/2007 11:17:17 AM | show profile I guess there are thre things that sring to mind here: -there's an accedidation system for public-school teachers (you have to get a license); there's currently nothing like that for journalists -- are you advocating that sometihng like that be introduced? -you walking into a school and teaching depends on that school hiring you -- the school controls who works there. Anyone can set up a website or blog -- no one's doing the hiring there. So again, it seems very diferent from being a working teacher. -the catch is that if there's no company hiring, there's no company paying. So your making money is dependent solely on your ability to find and audience and leverage that audience, on your own, without any financial backing other than what you can arrange yourself. Not everyone has the ability to do this, for a number of reasons. In fact, very few do. So if you don't like that independent journalists and commentators can set up shop online and possibly build and audience and influence, what's your solution to stop this from happening? Would you also advocate some kind of restrictions not just on reporters but on folks like commentators or analysts? |
| mailbag | Posted – 7/22/2007 12:22:31 PM | show profile | email poster noname, I haven't really said anything yet - I'm asking a lot of questions. Licensing journalists, as we do with teachers or other professions, isn't answering whether or not James is a journalist (or for that matter Josh Wolfe even though SPJ declared him one. Court didn't agree.) So, who decides who is and who isn't a journalist hundreds of years into the lifespan of this profession? Obviously anyone can set up a website or blog -- I just found my niece's on youtube last night and no one else in the family knows. "noname....-the catch is that if there's no company hiring, there's no company paying. So your making money is dependent solely on your ability to find and audience and leverage that audience, on your own, without any financial backing other than what you can arrange yourself. Not everyone has the ability to do this, for a number of reasons. In fact, very few do." Ok, going with that, why does anyone on MB bother stating they are unemployed and have no prospects? Grab your camera - call up John Edwards and arrange an interview. Why not? Why would anyone be complain about leaving this profession when the doors are wide open to be independent? "noname....So if you don't like that independent journalists and commentators can set up shop online and possibly build and audience and influence, what's your solution to stop this from happening? Would you also advocate some kind of restrictions not just on reporters but on folks like commentators or analysts?" Not sure I follow because we haven't defined a journalist. Is anyone who can speak or write by default a commentator? What is the message OUR profession is sending right now? i-Reports on cnn.com. Yahoo! "You can be an instant journalist too." Since I follow weather events, trust me when I say there are literally hundreds (perhaps more) of children running around the midwest and the UK filming lightening, tornadoes and flash floods - simply to post on youtube or i-Reports. Bet you their parents don't know. So, what does it take - one dead kid? A few? Before someone is sued and this all ends up in court? The professional storm chasers take the risks, knowing full well what those risks are. Journalists presumably know the risks of misquoting, skewing a video clip to mean something else. What about James and other kids? Who takes the legal liability? Google/youtube, the interviewer? What about those who aspire to be another James? You/me/ thousands of other journalists have tight deadlines, story boards, accountability. Am I to believe that because I might work for the (making this up) Lexington KY Daily Weed, that John Edwards is so busy answering questions from wanna be 'somethings' on youtube that he blows me off for my story to answer all of their requests? (Please read that para again and apply it to almost any subject matter, whether you are FREELANCE or employed.) Is the intent to do your own thing, specifically for an online broadcast channel, enough in 2007 to qualify you as a journalist and thus avoid any ethical considerations or responsibilities? Given the popularity (no matter what the content) on youtube broadcasts - is that suddenly good enough for the LAT/NYT/Gannet to say "come on board son," without having developed educationally and professionally as many of us here have? |
| noname1234 | Posted – 7/22/2007 6:34:29 PM | show profile mailbag you say you haven't "said anything" just "asked questions" but you've made it pretty clear what you POV on this is, which is fine. So here are my answers to your questions, as best as I can interpret them: is he a journalist? yes You want be a teacher but can't just walk into a vacant schoolroom and teach. Why is that? Anwered above: the goverment requires teachers are licensed and the school building is owned by someone and you can't just claim access to the physical space, any more than a journalist could walk into the NYTimes building and set up shop an an unoccupied desk. Why doesn't every journalist set up a website that they can get enough money from to support themselves without worrying about getting hired by a traditional media company? For the same reason not everyone gets a book contract and pens a bestseller, or opens a restaurants that pulls in millions. Not everyone has ability or desire to be an entrepreneur, whether as an independent web journalist or running a neighborhood store. It a skills set not everyone has or wants to have -- in fact, relatively few people do. Not too many people make a living income off their blog. If this kid has the ability, more power to him. Now, clearly you're disturbed by what's going on in this area. So my questions to you are: What exactly bothers you about what this kid, for example, is doing, and what do you propose could happen that could change it? |
| noname1234 | Posted – 7/22/2007 6:50:48 PM | show profile PS this isn't precisely my profession because i'm not a journalist. and i just want to reiterate that just because the technoloy exists, relative FEW people have been able to generate enough of a following online to give them access AND give them a living wage. This is NOT the norm. And this kid apparently wasn't "just anyone" calling up Edwards -- he I assume he's built enough of an audience -- or enough of an audience in a particular demographic edwards wants to reach -- to make it worth edwards' time. I'm sure Edwards' staff looks into this before deciding whom to grant interviews to. |
| mailbag | Posted – 7/22/2007 7:19:13 PM | show profile | email poster Let me be perfectly clear. noname, let us revisit the questions; these are not tricky imo. mailbag: How does he make a living? mailbag: How did this kid become a powerful enough journalist to get interviews? mailbag: Why am I not watching your video(s) of prominent figure interviews? (for those who say they either don't have a j-job or can't break in?) --- DD said - "it is not a tough question"... mailbag: Which question? And if these are not so tough, why not answer? mailbag: What do traditional media orgs think about James' qualifications vs yours? mailbag: Will they (traditional media org) find James' experience (more relevant) over yours? --- JeanMarie said she didn't understand why I wouldn't call him a journalist (when I in fact did in the lead post.) mailbag: Who decides if James is a journalist? mailbag: Has he sworn to uphold the ethics of this profession? mailbag: Why do you think John Edwards, Rather, and all the others granted him an interview? --- noname: Perhaps agreed in order to reach a different audience. mailbag: How is it that there are any MB posters looking for advice on how to break in, or for seeking contacts, or for a job? Presumably James is not here seeking this same advice - why is anyone else, and why would they not be on youtube creating their own broadcast? mailbag: What is the message OUR profession is sending right now with the gimmick "you can be an instant journalist too"? mailbag: What about those who aspire to be another James, how does it potentially impact the rest of us? --- noname: "but you've made it pretty clear what you POV on this is, which is fine." mailbag: Really? How so? By asking questions I do not see anyone else here asking? --- noname:... teachers are licensed and the school building is owned by someone and you can't just claim access to the physical space, any more than a journalist could walk into the NYTimes building and set up shop an an unoccupied desk. mailbag: There are no more desks at the NYT (figuratively speaking.) Those desks have been voided by the Internet across the newsrooms of the USA. --- noname: ... Now, clearly you're disturbed by what's going on in this area. So my questions to you are: What exactly bothers you about what this kid, for example, is doing, and what do you propose could happen that could change it? mailbag: Isn't "disturbed" a rather presumptuous word to use? Have you video footage of me pacing back/forth in my apartment damning James' name for hours a time? How do you know I'm not in absolute awe, and if I saw him I'd drop to my knees and spit-shine his shoes for a qwaata? Topic: Hold on one darn minute: Skip from boy to Journo This is the wave. No worry about collecting clips. No worry about finding a journalism degree. No worry about earning a living either. (Although I agree with DD's point about some million dollar contract in James' future whether stated in sarcasm or not.) Maybe we should offer a standard line for the next time anyone asks for career advice on MB -- "Hey poster with the same question asked 10,000 times just 'go do' -- don't waste your time here asking the professionals for advice. Just get out there and do it. And you will be the next media star." Good advice noname? |
| mailbag | Posted – 7/22/2007 7:27:23 PM | show profile | email poster PS Since we crossed posted noname, just a quick point to your question of popularity. omg - youtube. Who is Steve? He looks like James. Got their 'youtube' popularity mixed up just now -- but I'm sure both of them are journalists. EmergencyCheese (James) has 2,472 subscribers. Steve (which is citizentube) for citizen journalism interviewed James and has 3,700. Are you telling me that Edwards' campaign has decided 2,000 subscribers on someone's youtube profile is enough to grant a 5-minute interview? (Which was not only on phone, but filmed as well on Edwards' side of the line.) |
| aoscruggs | Posted – 7/22/2007 8:05:58 PM | show profile What makes a journalist? Answer to mailbag and noname: credibility and ethics. I hear so much about citizen journalism. I read so many darts at so-called "Mainstream journalists" who allegedly aren't up-to date about changes in the profession and the media landscape. If you want to see where the profession is going, and the challenges people are facing - as well as the way they are meeting them - hang out at poynter.org, spj.org, nabj.org ona.org, etc. As for what makes this kid a powerful enough journalist: I'd suggest it's possibly his knowledge of the his subject (he seems to have been interested in politics from an early age) and his business acumen. I noticed this videos were from second- and third-tier candidates. I'd also suggest he's aggressive and creative - great qualities for any journalist, but especially a freelancer. I looked at his wikipedia entry. I think he should teach the mediabistro course "Getting noticed on wikipedia." He seem to have that skill well in hand. |
| noname1234 | Posted – 7/22/2007 8:14:27 PM | show profile mailbag, your posts are toooo loong! I don't have space/time to answer every one of your litany of questions (I've already answered most to the best of my ability, I think), so here's a summary: I don't know how James makes a living -- maybe he works at McDs? Is there contact info to ask him directly? I don't know if he's sworn to uphold ethics standards -- who would he swear this to? As to if he's a journalist: I don't know who determines this for others. There's no general licensing; he might not be able to get a press pass to access certain events. It could be that this brave new world means that definitions from year's past need changing. How he got access: I assume he started posting videos which some saw & liked and spread the word and prominent people wanted to reach his audience so they talk with him Very few people have the skill/drive to create compelling videos that lots of people want to watch, which is why more journos don't do. Very very few people can currently make a living doing this. If EVERYONE could do it, they would! there are a number of big issues that the internet revolution has wrought -- and one big question I have is: What need has traditional media NOT been meeting that leads some of its potential audience to embrace non-traditional digital sources? What GOOD stuff can traditional media learn from successful outsider sources, rather than just gloom-and-doom about the BAD stuff out there? |
| noname1234 | Posted – 7/22/2007 8:18:59 PM | show profile mailbag, regardign access to edwards: I said a few times it's because edwards wanted to reach his audience. And I think the poster above makes a good point: edwards isn't the leading candidate so maybe the bigger traditional outlets dont' want to talk with him as much. You seems skeptical of this, pointing out that there are others online with bigger audiences. So why do you think edwards agreed to talk with james? |
| mailbag | Posted – 7/22/2007 8:59:47 PM | show profile | email poster noname -- you are a good sport. These are thinking questions about my profession during change. I not saying 'you' have to answer them all - these are just put out there into the wild so to speak. "noname - I don't know how James makes a living -- maybe he works at McDs?" Or... maybe we covered this topic on my Bank of M&D discussion... didn't that cross your mind? Nonetheless, I would think he should disclose on his blog at least who he is, how to reach him, and what his game plan is. He doesn't that I can see. I'm sorry, but in my book, just being 24, and good looking is not qualifications enough to be professional. Meanwhile, I question an agenda of anyone online who hides such simple background info. Anyone can post a wiki page...but to my discussion on wiki here several weeks back, perhaps those in his age group protect the page from ever being deleted. You wonder about the power of the media? What about the power of 20-something geeks. IMO they seem to own the web right now, not media. "noname - I don't know if he's sworn to uphold ethics standards -- who would he swear this to?" Considering that this profession has Constitutional protection I see no checks/balances either. And until there are some checks in place I do not believe in freedom of the press anymore. (Side effect of 9.11.) "noname - ....If EVERYONE could do it, they would!" Hold that thought. Maybe not everyone as in 300 million people in this country, but for a profession that is dwindling in actual numbers of employees, I find it interesting at how so many newbies have sprung up online in the name of journalism. "noname - What need has traditional media NOT been meeting that leads some of its potential audience to embrace non-traditional digital sources?" Perhaps some stale topics are: White House cover ups and executive privilege before the fact, 9.11, Iraq, policy in general. Boring to the people who want to believe we live in a democracy I know. But in my view, these topics are what indies go after. "noname - What GOOD stuff can traditional media learn from successful outsider sources, rather than just gloom-and-doom about the BAD stuff out there?" I do not follow this question. "noname - You seems skeptical of this, pointing out that there are others online with bigger audiences. So why do you think edwards agreed to talk with james?" I find that most perplexing. I have no bloody idea. Maybe a sweet face is all that matters today on youtube? |
| noname1234 | Posted – 7/22/2007 9:16:36 PM | show profile Did it occur to me that this kid might be a richy mcrich with family dough? yes but i didn't want wade into that whole cesspool again! I do question whether his journalistic pursuits occupy all his working time -- I don't know one way or the other. He should disclose his background though in a public place -- no reason not to do that. "What GOOD stuff can traditional media learn from successful outsider sources, rather than just gloom-and-doom about the BAD stuff out there? I mean: Is there something about the approach, etc. of some outsider sources that's GOOD, that's enliving journalism and can be something that other media companies could learn from? You posted some legitimate questions about lack of ethics, standards, accountability for independent online operators -- have you seen any inspiring work from these folks? |
| mailbag | Posted – 7/22/2007 10:11:09 PM | show profile | email poster become an enabler Can I use my own example? :-) If so, the answer is yes -- on my own non-day-job related newsite. Wanna be journalists have approached me, pitched a story, and upon acceptance not only do I pay them, but help them develop the story. Why? I'm just a nice guy when it comes down to it. I want them to succeed in their little dream. I want them to understand basics of journalism, and what goes into creating a piece. These stories are important to them - in their world - in their community...doesn't matter if I think they are important. Have published work/life balance with moms, treating children who witnessed the WTC, Dann sisters fighting the Feds and other topics - because these writers had a passion for what they saw around them. Now, perhaps James has some passion, but I think stars cloud his eyes -- not a gut instinct to tell a story. So, given that, what if media companies were more like me -- more approachable and more willing to publish what the readers request? |
| dribbledrive1 | Posted – 7/23/2007 5:09:08 PM | show profile Hey, nothing wrong with wanting to be a star. I don't think James has never made a claim or expressed a desire to be "a journalist." He's always presented himself as a blogger and commentator. He seems to be focused on building his own little empire -- speechmaking, blogs, films, newsletters, whatever. And that is the whole point of the web -- you don't need a big media company to make an impact. You don't have to allow someone else to set rules for you. You don't need to be defined by someone else -- you can just throw your work out onto the marketplace and see if people respond. Actually, simply asking the question of whether he's a journalist is a little stodgy and pre-Internet. --I want them to succeed in their little dream. I want them to understand basics of journalism, and what goes into creating a piece. These stories are important to them - in their world - in their community...doesn't matter if I think they are important. Have published work/life balance with moms, treating children who witnessed the WTC, Dann sisters fighting the Feds and other topics - because these writers had a passion for what they saw around them. Now, perhaps James has some passion, but I think stars cloud his eyes -- not a gut instinct to tell a story. -- |
