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Topic: How Screwed Up Is Publishing, Really?
| Author | Message |
| GalleyCat | Posted – 8/3/2007 1:16:55 AM | show profile "I have worked in the industry for years and I have never seen so many people who have emotional problems," says an anonymous GalleyCat reader. "They either suffer from depression or a lack of interpersonal skills. The pay in publishing does not attract the best people and that includes me I guess. Publishing is not a field that has a bright future because kids today do not want to read and the industry does nothing about it. Sometimes I think it would be better to wash cars." Does that sound like your job? Your coworkers? You? |
| Editress | Posted – 8/3/2007 9:18:40 AM | show profile | email poster If you've ever worked in other fields, you would appreciate this about working in publishing: at least your co-workers read. Try Advertising or Entertainment for provincialism at its best. |
| scobie | Posted – 8/3/2007 10:28:48 AM | show profile Having been exposed to the entertainment field in Los Angeles, and the advertising world in New York, each make publishing look positively sane. And in terms of people grumbling about the ?low salary,? they should talk to some public school teachers or cops; we get paid pretty nicely. True, it?s nothing next to what the Gordon Gekko-wannabes make on Wall Street, but as the man said in Citizen Kane, ?It?s no trick to make a lot of money...if all you want to do is make a lot of money.? |
| getmeoutofhere | Posted – 8/3/2007 10:36:11 AM | show profile *Seethe* I have great people skills! I will work for peanuts! I take medication for my depression! I'm smart and talented! BUT THE GODDAMN PUBLISHING INDUSTRY WILL NOT HIRE ME!!! AND I DON'T KNOW WHY!!! AAAAAAARGGGHHHJOBHUNTSOFRUSTRATING!!!!! |
| getmeoutofhere | Posted – 8/3/2007 10:36:40 AM | show profile *Seethe* I have great people skills! I will work for peanuts! I take medication for my depression! I'm smart and talented! BUT THE GODDAMN PUBLISHING INDUSTRY WILL NOT HIRE ME!!! AND I DON'T KNOW WHY!!! AAAAAAARGGGHHHJOBHUNTSOFRUSTRATING!!!!! |
| lorengroup1 | Posted – 8/3/2007 11:34:10 AM | show profile Dumb Editors and Agents The poster is right there are many people in publishing that have emotional problems. I have understood why publishers put faith in literary agents when most of the books they sell fail in the marketplace. Editors are so busy with acquring books that they don't edit the books that they acquire and that is sad news for readers. The advances that are paid for books like to Valerie Plame for are excessive and just plain stupid. How about taking some of that advance money off the table and giving it to the people who make publishing run everyday. We are so underpaid it is pathetic. I have never seen a business whose many customer base is women, work so hard in taking advantage of women who work in the industry. Low pay, bad benefits and no promotions just to name a few are the reasons why publishing today cannot attract the best and the brightest. |
| JimmyG | Posted – 8/3/2007 12:14:58 PM | show profile The maddening thing is that if the business is so screwed up and pays so little, then why are so many people, like the above poster, grinding their teeth into little nubs trying to break into it? All the years I was on staff at various publications I encounted eveything from insane drug crazed art directors (one actually came into the office with a gun one day and shot up the store room), dicatorial editors who would do everything to make their employees look bad, complacent editors who thought everyone was doing a great job no matter what they did, touchy co-workers who bristled at any perceived slight, co-workers who freelanced from their desks and expected me to cover for them to the bosses, idiot publishers who would foist idiot article ideas on me that he'd get from some drinking buddy, an so on. Would you rather be the prototypical closet intellectual who works for the railroad or UPS because of the job security and pension? Creative people are usually nuts. The more creative they are, the more nuts they can be. Now put them in a room with other neurotic editorial types who feel their sole purpose in life is to protect the english language from creative abuse, marketing and ad people who feel the editors should be their tools to making commissions, and managers who want New Yorker quality on a newsletter budget and see what happens. The best thing is to break in, develop a well-defined and marketable content niche and a Rolodex full of contacts, then freelance. You avoid the crazys, and even if you're still underpaid per assignment, if you're cagey enough you can make it up in volume. |
| Not in NYC | Posted – 8/3/2007 12:17:37 PM | show profile | email poster Don't believe everything you read Our office, located west of New York, is full of smart, innovative, creative, cynical people--we publish non-fiction. Sometimes I think the idealists work in fiction and poetry, and the optimists work in kids books. Overall, I have found that the publishing industry attracts smart, creative people who do this work because they like it. Yeah, some of us are depressed, drink too much, lack interpersonal skills, etc. So are doctors, producers, attorneys, bankers, and whatever industry attracts "the best people". At the very least, we read enough to make good cocktail party conversation. AGCR, Don't believe everything you read (e.g. the NEA report). Kids read and write all day long--on their phones and on their computers. Our challenge is to deliver content in the ways they want to read it. Most other industries create products based on market needs and market demands; our industry might (finally) be starting to think this way, too. It's been time to think beyond the book for at least 10 years. |
| WordyBird | Posted – 8/3/2007 2:24:53 PM | show profile JimmyG said: "The best thing is to break in, develop a well-defined and marketable content niche and a Rolodex full of contacts, then freelance. You avoid the crazys, and even if you're still underpaid per assignment, if you're cagey enough you can make it up in volume." Just quoting Jimmy because I think this is what it boils down to for a lot of people. |
| Righter | Posted – 8/3/2007 2:47:16 PM | show profile totally agree with JimmyG, too. I was so unhappy when I worked on staff, constantly encountering people who were overly-dramatic, superficial, two-faced and didn't even get their work done. Freelancing lets me do what i love to do without having to deal with all the other things I hated. Then again many of the places I freelance for seem like they're full of people I would love to work with if I needed a full time job. Like everything, there's good, there's bad. You just gotta find a place that's right for you. |
| dribbledrive1 | Posted – 8/3/2007 3:02:08 PM | show profile Books will never die. And not everyone wants to read from a computer screen. The utlimate advance will be tablets that look and feel like books, but are actually computers. You will be able to download any book into the contraption (dramatically reducing distribution and manufacturing costs) but the actual experience of dealing with the material will be the same as a paper-based book. Who knows, you might even turn pages. --AGCR, Don't believe everything you read (e.g. the NEA report). Kids read and write all day long--on their phones and on their computers. Our challenge is to deliver content in the ways they want to read it. Most other industries create products based on market needs and market demands; our industry might (finally) be starting to think this way, too. It's been time to think beyond the book for at least 10 years.-- |
| Chamsah | Posted – 8/3/2007 3:28:03 PM | show profile That depends On the part of publishing you choose to examine. My answer? The suits are the screwed up part. Too often they decide on editorial content even though they have never cracked open the magazine. They decide that money matters over quality content. They decide on slashing budgets whether they are reasonable, doable, acceptable cuts. They cater to advertisers, not readers. They don't care about the readers, just as long as there ARE readers. They also don't give a shit how the magazine gets out the , just do it damn it! Even if it means we switched the cover story at the 11th hour and you have to stay there until 2 am to get it all done. Meanwhile, they are the ones making money hand over fist while the creatives slave away for peanuts. And spend late night closes without being given food or a car ride home at 2 am. While the suits get everything paid for, including full rent on that swank apartment in Manhattan because the drunken commute back to the mansion, wife and kids in Scarsdale after late night drinks at Nobu is a bitch. Does that qualify? |
| WordyBird | Posted – 8/4/2007 11:12:59 AM | show profile Chamsah has good points, too. |
| Ferndale | Posted – 8/4/2007 2:56:21 PM | show profile Speaking of a lack of interpersonal skills... ...I doubt publishing is even in the top 50 industries when it comes to maladjusted personalities. As someone who spent ten years as a business reporter -- doing long profiles that required prolonged exposure to a variety of businesses, both large and small, entrepreneurial and corporate, profit and nonprofit ... I can assure this unhappy guy (no woman would propose washing cars as an alternative career) that he is among the best and the brightest. If he really wants to experience a world of depression/lack of interpersonal skills, he should spend some time with the clergy. |
| Vox-o | Posted – 8/4/2007 9:56:12 PM | show profile Let's see, I have been in book publishing for about 13 years now (where did the time go). Almost everyone I know has a "oh my god you must be fucking kidding me" story about them, some have several. I love hearing about other people's dirt, and I fierce;ly covering up my own. I love it though, would not have it any other way. You can't be Hollywood Dysfunctional, but you can get away with a hell of a lot more than most other industries. Of course, I am not getting rich, but I don't live paycheck to paycheck anymore either. I'm not going anywhere. |
| Metro Writer | Posted – 8/4/2007 10:26:54 PM | show profile I've worked in non-creative, "practical" jobs. There, suffering from depression or not having interpersonal skills would be welcome in comparison to their arrogance, psychopathic lying, and backstabbing skills as well as their utter lack of business sense. When I did bookkeeping, I saw two companies go out of business because they imagined that they were bringing in more revenue than incurring expenses, and that my reports-- which tied into the bank statements--were somehow wrong. Unfortunately, there is a great distortion of worth in this country. Hedge fund managers who gamble with other people's money are paid exorbitant salaries. Ditto for athletes, ostensibly because their careers are limited (as if a mason's isn't!). And why should the CEO of a hospital get a salary of more than $1,000,000 when he just runs an ordinary suburban hospital with no competition? |
| seeattleme | Posted – 8/5/2007 1:20:53 AM | show profile Publishing is screwed up because of nepotism and elitism. It's run by upper middle class white rich fucks who aren't all that bright and all come from the same socio-economic background. Same education, same sociol upbringing, same religious beliefs, etc. They're all ass kissers and not ass kickers anymore. You get your job based on whose ass you pressed your lips up to--that or who youknow or to whom you are related. What nutty Penn English professor you had a class with. What DAddy did for a living (MR. Television--guess what my daughter does, why she's on the Today show!!!!) Yeah. You know it. Books too. Rarely does real talent and hard work from the bottom get anywhere in publishing. That's why it sucks. so. bad. It's why the Internet is creeping up slowly like a hungry cat in the jungle. Ready to punce. Again and again--with original material posted right from the readers, right from America's underbellies and sidestreets and suburbs alike. Bye bye print. WHat appreciates diverse talent and distinct voices from true experience and suffering will emerge, shimmer, and overcome. |
| Bleak Spouse | Posted – 8/5/2007 1:45:27 AM | show profile I think there's very talented and smart people in book publishing. People get into it I imagine because they love books and so want to be around them all day. So you get a lot of smart people coming out of very good schools filling these jobs. But it's true the pay is ridiculously low and doesn't have to be. |
| Vox-o | Posted – 8/5/2007 10:47:30 PM | show profile Granitegirl I never kissed anyone's ass to get where I am. Yes, there are "legacy" types in publishing, but most of those with a legacy behind them don't even bother anymore because they can make 3xs the money elsewhere. Other fields. You are so bitter and negative, and you don't even realize it, and this holds you back. Stop worrying about this stuff, and focus on improving yourself. |
| seeattleme | Posted – 8/6/2007 12:01:01 AM | show profile Vox o-hey--give me your REAL name and address, and we'lll see if you've never kissed ass, etc. My comments are based on twenty years of experuence in NYC-mag, book, newspaper paublishing. If you want to disregard, fine. Dirregard it. If What i say doesn;t matter, don't RESPOND to it. (Duh). You don't believe what I'm saying, get a job in NYC publishing. get a job with the NY times, or Time (you gotta have the "TIME Inc. DNA", as Rick Stengel has--that's a direct quote, BTW) Check out the masthead at T magazine--which is carrying NY Times. Go ahead. Find out how those got their jobs. If you can prove one person got their job without ass-kissing, yu post it and give me an email link and I will pay you five hundred dollars. Go ahread. See, I'm an OLD TIMER. I've seen it all. so you call me bitier, etc, no. it's realism. and, as I stated, it's why publsihing is F.U.C.K.E.D U P. Ask anyone who knows. HAve them give you a better explanation If what I say is ranting ludicrous bullshit--ignore it, you moron. But it's not. ANd you KNOW it's not. Just wait and see. Bye Bye print. |
| seeattleme | Posted – 8/6/2007 12:06:48 AM | show profile and yes, I don't type out my posts carefully on these recreational media board posts, so spare yourselves. I assure you, if I typed this way professionally--really--if I were able to stay in the business since 1987--well, what does that say about this bsuneiss--EXCEPT THAT IT REALLY IS SCREWED? As was originally established....RIGHT? Your problem is that instead iof taking example from those who have bis, instead of comprehanding what's being said, you focus on the tone. You focus on the WAY it's being said. Here's atip from an old timer who's been published many times in many national publications: Big Mistake. BIG. Always focus on what's being said, not the WAY it is said. You'll learn more that way. |
| getmeoutofhere | Posted – 8/6/2007 3:32:17 PM | show profile wow. |
| getmeoutofhere | Posted – 8/6/2007 3:34:35 PM | show profile re: Bleak Spouse I'm one of those people who simply loves books, have been reading and writing a mile/minute since I was 4 and believe I will be happiest working around and with books for the rest of my life. I think it proves that it's the right career when I acknowledge the painfully low salaries and believe I would be ok with that. (While still realizing that the ridiculousness of it.) |
| Bleak Spouse | Posted – 8/6/2007 4:16:37 PM | show profile There are some really interesting jobs in book publishing too. I was reading in Entertainment Weekly about a woman whose job it is to fact check all the Harry Potter books for Scholastic. I'm sure she's not rolling in the Benjamins, but I can't imagine that's anything but a very fun job. Compare that to being an accountant. Or a divorce lawyer. Or any number of decent paying jobs that must take a toll on you eventually. I still think book publishing companies should raise every employee's salary at least 10k -- taking that money from ridiculous advances they give to fools like Keith Richards or whoever. Why? Because fair is fair. |
| Vox-o | Posted – 8/6/2007 5:09:16 PM | show profile LMAO at Granite Girl You are seriously koo-koo. You must be insane to think I would post my name and address here. But since you feel you claim to be an expert in all things magazine and book related, why don't you post yours? |
