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Topic: When you're ready to leave NYC, where do you go?
| Author | Message |
| nellie bly | Posted – 8/13/2007 12:44:00 PM | show profile Great thread! there was a story on the best cities/places to move on yahoo last week. I can't find it now, but instead found this... http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20070209182223AAggRp9 Sugar Land, TX? Cary, NC? Mesa, AZ? Never heard of any of these places. Maybe that's good. And what about San Diego? My partner dreams of moving there. Nice weather is not the no. 1 priority for me. I think about the cultural and political climate, too. |
| Stanley_Milgram | Posted – 8/13/2007 12:51:57 PM | show profile Nellie, you just listed a good portion of the top 10 most boring places in America. Mesa? Sugarland? These are development suburbs of boring urban centers (Phoenix and Houston, in the above cases). Are you sure you were reading some journalistic evaluation and not some real estate hucksterism (or is there no difference these days?) |
| nellie bly | Posted – 8/13/2007 12:58:17 PM | show profile well, that explains why I never heard of them. thnaks for clueing me in. the link is part of someone's top 10 list based on Money Mag's top 10. But is not the original article I read last week, which included Raleigh/Durham NC and other college towns. |
| writesonwater | Posted – 8/13/2007 1:03:57 PM | show profile I checked that link out. Interesting feedback. While I generally favor mild weather, having been raised in the Pacific Northwest, as well as cheap real estate, I like to find small towns that offer good ratios, either per square mile or per capita: cultural activities beautiful sites parks outdoor activities historical homes (I'm a sucker for these and drawn to towns with lots of them) non-chain, great restaurants/bakeries/tea rooms school awards or honors strong town square with thriving businesses. Schools will tell you something about your community and resale values. Look for things like: opportunities for all children (not just WASP ones) -- there are ratings on this; number of National Merit scholars; percentage of grads going on to college. Watch this number especially -- it says something about the people in the community. |
| writesonwater | Posted – 8/13/2007 1:07:31 PM | show profile Watch out for a community's Ugly Ratios: Number of rednecks per capita Number of bigots per capita Weird rules the school board has (male teachers can't wear beards or moustaches in a public school district? What does that say about a community????) Active and growing chamber of commerce -- lots of ribbon cuttings or stagnant? Drawn as I am to historic homes, I once looked at buying a fabulous place that was up for auction. I looked at the downtown area and it seemed quite abandoned and sad. I checked with a neighbor of the home, and he said "Oh things have been bad since the uranium mine shut down, but things are looking up now that the new prison's coming in." I'm not making this up. Uh, buh-bye. If you're thinking about moving somewhere but aren't sure, randomly call a few people that like to talk and ask them what's best about their community. A secretary once told me this: "We love it here. Once in a while we have a problem when a black boy wants to date a white girl -- the white boys don't like that very much." Click. Ugh! |
| writesonwater | Posted – 8/13/2007 1:13:57 PM | show profile Nellie and Stan, the thing about boring is that for some people, that's the safety net they need. Deep Ellum in Dallas appealed to one poster -- but wouldn't necessarily be a good place to raise a family. I love Fell's Point, Maryland, a seaside neighborhood to Baltimore, where the series Homicide: was filmed. My son was shocked, since it has thrived on a well-deserved historical reputation as a sailor's hangout, and up through the 1950s was reportedly a place you could get shanghai'ed from if you didn't watch out. But it's got some incredible places to visit, great historical appeal, etc. Love that place. Is it a case of "Nice place to visit, no place to live"? As a soon to be empty nester, I'll take it ... I can tell you I'd never want to live in innocuous suburb like Sugar Land. |
| writesonwater | Posted – 8/13/2007 1:18:27 PM | show profile Okay,, this Monster Job Search survey just popped up in one of those popup things: hottest job markets: http://promotions.monster.com/hotmarket/ in terms of year-over-year growth in online job demand: 1. Houston 2. Dallas 3. Atlanta 4. Cleveland 5. St. Louis |
| caitlinkelly | Posted – 8/13/2007 2:05:03 PM | show profile Which tells you that smart folks are moving there and thriving...while I wouldn't ever pick one of those places "just" for a job. Some people live to work and others work to live; some people will go anywhere offering a big paycheck (what if you're laid off? some people don't mind moving and re-locating across a state or country over and over and over as much as others). If you're single and ambitious and do not own real estate (that you can rent out), you may make totally different choices than someone mid-career with kids in school and/or a partner/spouse whose career may not be terribly portable. Factor in climate, tolerance of, let alone celebration of, diversity -- and whatever mix of history, culture, arts, sports and rec opportunities -- and a place that looks fantastic on one scale tumbles on another. Montreal has enormous charm and affordable real estate, with a vicious winter and extremely limited job opp's in some fields -- like journalism. Living near NYC typically means insanely expensive real estate and a very competitive job market, both of which are wearying. I still enjoy other things here like climate, diversity, arts, history, architecture, easy access to other areas, even some things most people would never necessarily link with this area like lots of opp's to go racing/sailing. I love my amazing view of the Hudson River, which certainly wasn't why I moved here. And for those of us with older, let alone ill-to-dying parents, easy, affordable access to where they live (i.e. by train, road or air), now matters much more than other issues once did. |
| writesonwater | Posted – 8/13/2007 2:09:06 PM | show profile This may seem like an odd observation, coming from a straight person, but it's my observation that one bellwether of tolerance in a community is if there's any evidence that someone who is gay is accepted into larger community life. THey may stick out, but does their business thrive? Do they get invited into the social fabric of the community? A town that's too narrow-minded to live and let live is one where judgment is probably going to be almost palpable. Another thing to look for is the town's minorities, of whatever stripe. (In South Texas, we were in the minority -- as anglos.) Are they in evidence in the business and social community, at least to some extent if not to the extent that they are represented in the town's demographics? If not, there may be some unofficial segregation still going on. |
| ubermama | Posted – 8/13/2007 8:52:12 PM | show profile KC tolerance/St. Louis not-so-much I was raised in St. Louis and the problem there, and I hope I don't offend anyone, is that there is a huge conservative Catholic majority that makes it very difficult for people of different stripes to fit in. Not to mention the racial tension. Maybe it has something to do with the old South or the humidity(which is palpable) but I can't recommend St. Louis. KC, on the other hand, always has a breeze, is very culturally accepting and has nice, tolerant people, for the most part. Being located smack dab between LA and NYC and only 1 hr by plane to Chicago (flights to Chicago and TX are REALLLLY Cheap!) I'm gonna have to stick to KC! Seriously. Do some research. And call me so I can introduce you to the greatest people. I'll even bake some cookies for you as a loft warming gift. (or a five bedroom house rental with hardwood floors, crown molding, fireplaces and a wine cellar for less than 1,000 a month. I kid you not!) KU Rocks. Boo Mizzou! :) |
| stet.this | Posted – 8/13/2007 9:17:30 PM | show profile Kansas City...I never would've guessed it! Great to hear it. |
| WordyBird | Posted – 8/14/2007 1:07:45 AM | show profile WritesOnWater said, "This may seem like an odd observation, coming from a straight person, but it's my observation that one bellwether of tolerance in a community is if there's any evidence that someone who is gay is accepted into larger community life. THey may stick out, but does their business thrive? Do they get invited into the social fabric of the community?" Hey, look for a decent-sized Unitarian-Universalist congregation. No, I'm not kidding, and I'm not just saying that because (technically) I am a UU. I noticed the correlation when I was doing "background" before trading in Catholicism. Where you have UUs, you have liberals and social progressives, and where you have liberals and social progressives, you have acceptance. Note: A "mid-sized" congregation in UU is about 500 people. Over a thousand is whompin'. A joke: For every UU in a county, there are 500 liberals. ;-) |
| writesonwater | Posted – 8/14/2007 2:06:48 AM | show profile Interesting! I've noted United Methodists and Episcopals to be a moderating influence on a community also. It seems like a community has to get to a certain size, in general, before UU and other groups can have enough of a nucleus to thrive as congregations. |
| chocolatebuckeyes | Posted – 8/14/2007 2:08:31 AM | show profile Oakland, CA! I was (and still am) asking that very question for the past couple of years. My husband and I, after 14 years in NYC, decided to decamp to the west coast. We've settled in Oakland, CA. Only been here a couple of months, but really like it so far. I'm a 15 minute drive to downtown SF, so it's easily commutable, but I don't have to deal with all the city stuff that I just got sick of in NYC (hot summers, stinky subways, rude waitstaff, impatient people in general). But here's the thing: if you're in publishing, there really is no place like New York. There's a little bit here and there, but the job market shrinks dramatically in other cities. But maybe you're a freelancer and can work from home? Another really noticeable thing outside New York: a lot of the "interesting, cultural" cities lack diversity. Even SF is pretty white/asian. Oakland has a good mix. But man, you get 1/2 hr outside that metro area and you're blinded by the whiteness. And I'm not saying I don't fall into that category! |
| chocolatebuckeyes | Posted – 8/14/2007 2:11:25 AM | show profile Oakland, CA! I was (and still am) asking that very question for the past couple of years. I think the short answer is: No. But here's a long answer... My husband and I, after 14 years in NYC, decided to decamp to the west coast. We've settled in Oakland, CA. Only been here a couple of months, but really like it so far. I'm a 15 minute drive to downtown SF, so it's easily commutable, but I don't have to deal with all the city stuff that I just got sick of in NYC (hot summers, stinky subways, rude waitstaff, impatient people in general). But here's the thing: if you're in publishing, there really is no place like New York. There's a little bit here and there, but the job market shrinks dramatically in other cities. But maybe you're a freelancer and can work from home? Another really noticeable thing outside New York: a lot of the "interesting, cultural" cities lack diversity. Even SF is pretty white/asian. Oakland has a good mix. But man, you get 1/2 hr outside that metro area and you're blinded by the whiteness. And I'm not saying I don't fall into that category! Oh, and I wouldn't say the real estate is "affordable" though it's better than SF proper. And the downtown is what they call "emerging." Anyone know anything about Asheville, NC? |
| candylilacs | Posted – 8/14/2007 3:45:56 AM | show profile I'm over the urban living thing. I like living in a small town with smartish people and some diversity. I like hearing crickets and feeling safe enough to walk around my neighborhood at night. Maybe that's my personality, my age or a statement on where I was raised (California's San Joaquin Valley.) I was raised in a semi-rural and inexpensive part of California with hardworking socialist/communist grandparents and parents. Most of the people around me were similarly inclined because they were all descendants of the Dust Bowl and knew "The Grapes of Wrath" wasn't just a book. So I grew up in what many in urban areas feel was a cultural wasteland, but I never saw it that way. I mean, personally I can't understand the NYC thing, but don't just stick with one flavor. Try them all before you die. ------ Ms. Write's Guide to Freelance Life --- www.mswritesguide.blogspot.com |
| ejlyman | Posted – 8/14/2007 7:53:09 AM | show profile | email poster Abroad You have to go abroad. The great capitals of Europe plus a handful of ities elesewhere offer a great deal of what you love about New York. Plus, foreign cities help you see the world again like it was new, complete with a whole new set of things to write about. And if yoy pick a non-English-speaking city (and learn the language) there's little competition among fellow freelancers. And in the high-tech world you can probably continue to work for some of the clients you worked for back in NYC. The downside is the weak dollar makes these places more expensive. But I still think it's worth the move: the exchange rate trend makes me only slighty less emphatic. ------ Italy-based freelancer www.ericjlyman.com |
| janbrady1 | Posted – 8/14/2007 8:33:17 AM | show profile What *about* Baltimore? I'm surprised to see it get little mention here. It ain't all The Wire, you know. There's a ton of development going on downtown, renovating those gorgeous old Baltimore rowhouses, and building condos right over the harbor, and the city's got quirk and personality to spare (Charm City, anyone?). Areas like Federal Hill have a young, cool, but down-to-earth clientele. I've had several friends move from NYC and rave about low cost of living (again--those historic rowhouses!), ease of getting around, and culture factor (lots of museums, from the BMA to the Visionary Arts Museum; lots of academic influence too, like Hopkins, Peabody Conservatory, etc.). And just a 3 hour train ride to NYC should you miss it. I grew up there, and whenever I go back recently I really wonder if I shouldn't relocate for good. I see John Waters on the train all the time (no joke). |
| caitlinkelly | Posted – 8/14/2007 10:31:48 AM | show profile eric's point about europe is interesting but how many people can/will make that leap? A friend who did so, with 2 kids and a freelance husband, has discovered great pleasures but some stunning problems -- like her kids didn't suddenly pick up the foreign language and now faces the cost of two private schools so they can study and really learn in their own language. What's a great adventure for one person can be scary and disorienting for another; few people have a clue how different it will be. I think living in a foreign city is a fantastic choice and one more people should consider. But it's not for everyone, with significant culture shock involved even if you speak the language well or fluently. And doing it legally and finding well-paid work to afford city life is not easy, no matter how well worth it. One friend who just moved to Bangkok loves it and friends who have been living and working around the world (teaching in international schools) really enjoy their life and the experiences it brings. Living as an expatriate (as I do, moving from Canada to the US) teaches you a great deal about your own prejudices and preconceptions. One challenge is that you eventually become "foreign" in/to your original culture in some ways. |
| WordyBird | Posted – 8/14/2007 11:54:20 AM | show profile JanBrady...laughing about the Baltimore thing. "NewYork, NewYork, NEWYork," like, "Marcia, Marcia, MARCIA." Balmer is great. Almost moved there myself back when rowhouses in Bolton Hill were going for $260-$280K. Compared to DC, that was a bargain. That was a few years ago, but divorce happens. Bolton Hill must be more expensive by now, yes? I was willing to commute to Alexandria, Virginia, from there for that neighborhood. It's absolutely gorgeous! |
| writesonwater | Posted – 8/14/2007 12:32:34 PM | show profile I agree that Baltimore has lots of charm and some great neighborhoods. I love anything near the water, myself. Annapolis is a wonderful spot, walkable, gorgeous, and the water. I can vouch that it's hard to immerse some families in another culture. When we moved to the U.S.-Mexico border area for my husband's job, it was tough to be immersed in Spanish. I did a little better, knowing French and being decent with languages. After that experience, I decided to wait on cross-cultural living until all the chicks leave the nest. Once that happens, I would consider Europe or Britain, definitely, and my grown kids could then visit and love it. |
| ezz_123 | Posted – 8/14/2007 1:32:08 PM | show profile i dont think nothin will match NYC :) |
| bergdorfblonde | Posted – 8/14/2007 1:48:13 PM | show profile | email poster Texas or Atlanta I was looking on Google real estate and for what you pay for a 1-bedroom coop on the Upper Eastside, you can get a brand new mansion in Texas or Atlanta. |
| keltoi2 | Posted – 8/14/2007 2:02:26 PM | show profile There's a book I've been reading for years called Places Rated Almanac that rates America's 379 metro areas for livability under a range of categories: jobs, education, culture, climate, crime, affordability, etc. I never really used it (Ialways knew I'd stay in the Northeast for family reasons), but it has always made for fascinating reading. www.placesrated.com |
| writesonwater | Posted – 8/14/2007 2:30:25 PM | show profile It's very easy to compare apples to Big apples using realtor.com. Just enter in your parameters -- three bedrooms, two baths, detached house, whatever. (Or you can just enter a price range -- $200k-250k for example) Then change the area using zipcode or city and state. You can keep doing that and check out the ranges. It's startling in some instances -- NYC to Dallas, or even NYC to Buffalo. Now, if you're just looking for a bargain, an historic house to retire to and write from a distance, Unitedcountry.com -- I love that. Just enter what kind of historic home you're looking for, how many acres, how many baths -- whatever, and it will find them for you nationwide. |
