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Topic: stupid effing chicks
| Author | Message |
| waki43 | Posted – 9/19/2007 2:41:41 PM | show profile Im sorry, I jsut cant handle all the dumb chicks in my life, my good friends, that are retarded when it comes to love life, and keep going back to guys that 1) dangle te prospect of wedding rings over thier head in exchange for more sex and are also stingy bastards 2) pine over men that wont even call them thier girlfriend 3) are psycho about getting married and its ruining their rational brains. These are my friends, my smart, funny, beautiful friends that are pissing me off day to day with the endless drama and cycle, and dare I say Im at the point where i cant listen anymore or be a shoulder because its gone on for 2+ years for both of them! wtf. Someone give me help to help them. Frustrated in Frisco. grr. |
| questoo1 | Posted – 9/19/2007 3:10:01 PM | show profile get new friends. sounds like they will be just as lame if/when they do get married |
| Mag Girl | Posted – 9/19/2007 3:20:03 PM | show profile It sounds as if they just have low self esteem and subconsciously don't think they are worth more than how they are being treated. I wouldn't be mad at them so much as trying to build them up. For those people, friends being angry with them for such behavior will just make them continue into their self-destructive cycle even more. Trust me on that one. |
| waki43 | Posted – 9/19/2007 4:22:38 PM | show profile you know, its such a fine line that often I wonder if it is self esteem, that seems like such a black and white answer. these girls do hold themselves in high regard on many levels, just not when it comes to men. Its just comical at this point, where I dont even know what to say...literally the broken record stuff with them. Im beginning to think taht maybe I am feeding the beast by indulging them in talking about these issues constantly. When I got engaged also (to my boyfriend of many many years so it was coming) neither of them were that happy for me initially and I they made me feel guilty for even telling them! One of them, who was a coworker at the time, spent the celebratory margarita lunch talking about HER same old problems. I am by no means brining it back to me, this didnt dawn on me until today actually, when i felt like crying after one of them told me she called her ex... its just....exhausting. How do I maintain my cool without seeming like Im over it? I still wnat to support them but its definately a cycle, which i am apart of and it needs to end somehow, right? |
| Righter | Posted – 9/19/2007 4:30:29 PM | show profile waki, I totally understand where you're coming from. I have friends who are just stuck in cycles of bad relationships, always with the same problem, and I totally agree that no matter how much you love them, how much you're there for them, there just comes a time when hearing the same problem and giving the same advice is tiring. I'm more than willing to talk to a friend on the phone for one, two, three hours if they need advice or they need to vent, but if it's the same thing every week??? Sometimes we have the problems in our own lives to deal with, and knowing that what we say really won't make a difference is discouraging. Next time, call them on it. Tell them you've noticed some patterns in their problems in the past and don't know if anything you say will change it. It's really up to them anyways. Or you can just screen their calls. I've done that before, though I feel bad about it. If they're so caught up in their own probs that they can't be happy for you...not cool. |
| Mag Girl | Posted – 9/19/2007 4:36:50 PM | show profile It really can be a self esteem issue, and that's likely what is causing their issues. However, dismissing your happiness and turning it all back to them is NOT a self esteem issue and is just plain self absorbtion. *Those* are the kinds of friends you don't need! However, if you do stay friends with them, if it were me, I would talk to them, nicely, and ask them if they realize they are making the same mistakes over and over. Say you care about them and don't want to see them hurt, blah blah. Try to have the conversation by leading questions rather than making statements- people tend to be more receptive that way. Such as, is this the kind of relationship you want to be in? DO you think it's healthy? What would you do if your mother was here telling you what you're telling me? |
| seeattleme | Posted – 9/19/2007 4:49:08 PM | show profile waki, most of my friends are male for this exact reason. A woman myself, I just couldn't handle stupid the self-involved, self-important, low self esteem masking as hyper critical behavior, drama-queen crap that--in my experience-- was inherent to the female sex. I have very few female friends and the few that I do are not into their appearance (or appearances in general), hang out with guys, their husbands are their best friends and a lot of them are talented athletes or firefighters and cops. I recommend that course of action to you. Dump the girls. Hang with the boys instead. Or hang with the girls who hang with the boys. No Oprah-watching allowed... |
| UGoGirl | Posted – 9/19/2007 7:26:54 PM | show profile Hopefully your friends just need to grow up. Unfortunately, growing up can take a very very long time. |
| waki43 | Posted – 9/19/2007 7:34:21 PM | show profile granite girl, I AM that girl surrounded by boys, and for the same reasons. I think thats why this is getting to me so much, it just makes me so sad as a woman, but also a human being, that other women can attribute so much of thier self worth to male attention. And mag girl, I hear you with the leading questions, I definately use that tactic. Its just that they seem temporarily empowered by my advice, but the minute they are alone they get all weak and forget it all, going back to the same vicious cycle. the self absorption thing is true, I just feel like I've done everything over these years to convince them of something that isnt my job, i guess...but i dont want to be disconnected or make them feel abandoned. So my question is...is it too bitchy to say "Gertrude, it seems like you are in a cycle and you never seem to want to learn from your mistakes to really change. But I cant stand back and watch a good friend be so self destructive, so I'd rather you just not tell me about the same old dramas anymore, unless you are ready to be serious and take happiness into your own hands." maybe the last bit is too harsh, no? |
| writesonwater | Posted – 9/19/2007 11:01:37 PM | show profile | email poster i had a friend whose apparent need for drama and attention as she went through a divorce just spiraled out of control. i was there for her as much as possible -- hours and hours a week on the phone, listening, supportive, blablabla. finally, i concluded i was enabling her habit of panic. i was the last one standing among her too-small circle of friends and family -- she was completely introverted and wouldn't make any friends, and so miserable. i backed away and she bloomed -- thank goodness. going to church, going to volunteer things, going to meetups, etc. it was hard on her and i think she's still mad at me, but it really was for her own good. |
| seeattleme | Posted – 9/19/2007 11:07:13 PM | show profile no. that's what women need to hear--and tell each other. The thing with guys is, they'll talk to you about the emo-crap, but for a perior. than it's like, lets get some beer, dude. They tell their friendds to get a life after a period of time--to quit the pity party and go out and get laid. Now, while that might not be the slution, it's the message behind it--go DO something, don't just sit around and repeat the drama and mope about it. Women need to start behaving this way--and until they hear it from their "BFF"s (GOD THAT FUCKING TERM MAKES ME WANT TO VOMIT ALL OVER MY COMPUTER__DO GUYS EVER GIVE THEIR FRIENDS THESE CUTESY LITTLE GIRLY TERMS? NO! THEY NAME THEIR PENISES! LET"S NAME OUR VAGINAS AND STOP USING THESE ADOLESCENT TERMS, for starters), they will not change their behaviors. I think women who cond with other women are self destructive and juvenile--I think the same about men. If you can't find members of the opposite sex to be close friends and the closest friend with (if youa re het) then you have a problem. You should select your friends based on their characteristics, not their sex. If all your closest friends are the same sex, you never grew up past the sisth grade, in my book. Because only when we learn how to be friends with the opposite sex can we eventually nurture a relationship with the opposite sex. Self worth has nothing to do with it. Women who base their worth on a man's opinion of them aren't really doing that. They're not interested in men. These are women who don't know men, because their primary--hell, all--their significant relationships are with other females. So WHEN and EVERY TIME they get into a relationship with a man--that is automatically romantic or sexual, because they have no male friends--and they fail. because for them it's always about MArs and Venus, etc etc. It's all about cliche and what is supposed to happen--it's not about the person their ionvolved with or the two people involved, regardless of gender. I feel sorry for these women. Not the lesbians, but the heterosexual women who really are looking for a meaningful relationship based on an attraction to the opposite sex. Until you understand a person, regardless of gender -- and understand the social pressures that shape manhood in this day and age--you'll never have it, and if you do get a crack at it you'll never be able to sustain it. I have no problem telling this to a woman who will listen to it. try finding one that will. She's immersed in the middle chapters of Robin McGraw's book, or somesuchshit. |
| seeattleme | Posted – 9/20/2007 1:01:35 AM | show profile and something else--girly giels will LOSE their men. Their men will cheat, get a divorce, or dump. A woman who cannot to relate to men as people cannot sustain a relationship with any man. Think about any girly-girl you know--who's all about shopping and home decor and manicures and appearance and "sex appeal", and all the traditional feminine shit-- who see men as primarily a sexual or romantic option (if a great job or career comes as a consequence of flirting well, welll, in my book that counts--cause decent people don't do that to other people). Girly girls are the mirror opposite of "he-men" and Rambos. They fuck up our world. They suck. And while they get their short runs, in the long run, they get dumped, divorced, cheated on, lied to, get tossed out to the curb with the trash. The girl that "got away" is always the girl next door, the girl the guy could talk to about "Polly Pom Poms", the girl who cussed and burped and worse old jeans and her Dad's football tee shirt, who didn't need makeup or hair color or manicures to look good, who was real and genuine. The girl who wasn't hyper critical and judgmental and brainwashed with all kinds of fucked up ideas about the way men/women/people (in that order) are SUPPOSED to act. That's the girl every guy in the end wishes he'd stayed with, the girl he thinks about going back for, the girl he wish he'd wound up with. Ask any guy. Ask your dad. |
| seeattleme | Posted – 9/20/2007 1:09:36 AM | show profile and that includes the financial bimbos--who act all "smart" about money but are basically all about "women and money" and how "women can save money" as opposed to REAL FINANCIAL SHIT. All the bimbos on Today. except, ironically, Suze Orman, who speaks without notes, and knows her shit, and makes nobones about telling it to women the WAY A MAN would. Straight talk. No B.S. No soothing tone, and no leg, no perfect makeup job, no BOTOX or obvious plastic surgery (the hair helmet over one shoulder doesn't help, Jean!). These girl girls irk me the most. They pretend to be all about financial wisdom and saavy, they who got daddy's money, then hubby's money, divorced hubby, got the face life and the lipo, and act like they did it all themselves. and they have the temerity to tell real middle class women to "hunker down" "take control" and "cut back". Phony Bullshit. These blow dired, manicured, botoxed eye jobed Today show princesses (from one book about women and money: "It appeals to the princess in all of us...we like the idea of being taken care of " --we meaning women) wouldn't last a week in the real world. |
| seeattleme | Posted – 9/20/2007 1:11:08 AM | show profile or with a real man. As so many of them are, after all, DIVORCED. |
| Bleak Spouse | Posted – 9/20/2007 1:24:46 AM | show profile guys name their penises? |
| writesonwater | Posted – 9/20/2007 3:22:15 AM | show profile | email poster To clarify: There's a difference between being what some gently refer to as a "girly girl" and being a giggling, male-snaring idiot -- between "feminine" and "feminine wiles." i think it is true that we need to get past some of the gender barriers to friendships and true understanding. having sons has taught me that at some levels, it's important to see people as people instead of what's behind their fly. Otherwise, there will never, ever be parity between the sexes in things like politics. I quite enjoyed the movie Legally Blonde for this reason: Elle had to get over her giddy Valley girl-ness to some extent by the end of the movie - as valedictorian, she possessed an adult confidence. Some women never do, and they do themselves a disservice by hanging onto little girl voices, for example. |
| writesonwater | Posted – 9/20/2007 3:28:13 AM | show profile Also, the phenomenon of losing your man happens to frilly gals and jeans-and-tshirt types alike. People stray. Men and women both. For many reasons. And conversely, some very dependent, fragile gals keep their men forever -- generally, these relationships seem to be based on being put up on a pedestal. I generally avoid pedestals, clambering down as soon as anyone puts me on one. Never liked the view. certainly, a person-to-person understanding within a relationship should be good for it -- unless he's the kind of guy who don't like that, in which case who wants him anyway? |
| waki43 | Posted – 9/20/2007 4:24:55 PM | show profile Granite girl, you and I are very much a like. I think we could be bff ;) Anyway, seriously, the part about knowing men is SO true, you made my want to cry and hug my computer screen. YES YES YES!!! My dad raised me to know how he, and other men think. Its made me strong in this relationship regard whether or not it be truth or opinion, its SO important for females to have strong male rolemodels...which, is what is lacking with both of my friends and I;ve definately gone down that armchair psychiatry road with them which shows that yes, we are a product of our circumstance, but there comes a time where you need to take the reigns of your life and dictate the course of your future. But in my case, as a result I have such a great relationship with my fiancee and close male and female friends. I am rich in this regard (poor in many others, i do live in SF). But it also takes work, and I think these girls are afraid of the PAIN of the reality. But PAIN is the only way we learn our lessons and grow and change. Theyd rather maintain a cushy lifestyle "what about our apt?" then face the fact that it takes work to drive your own life and happiness. To face pain and there is the fear of it all which drives many people to keep going in negative situations- bad relationships, jobs or whatever. It takes courage to stand up to fear and face the inevitable pain, and courage seems to be a factor that is also lacking, another personailty trait you just cant inject in people. C'est la vie. Anyway, thanks all of you, this discussion helped me a lot to know there are smart ones out there, and the great advice, which i will heed. I never thought i would come to the point wehre i felt so much anger and impatience with a friend, and it helps to get input from all of you for me to remember to just chill and take it as it comes. |
| waki43 | Posted – 9/20/2007 4:26:20 PM | show profile Granite girl, you and I are very much a like. I think we could be bff ;) Anyway, seriously, the part about knowing men is SO true, you made my want to cry and hug my computer screen. YES YES YES!!! My dad raised me to know how he, and other men think. Its made me strong in this relationship regard whether or not it be truth or opinion, its SO important for females to have strong male rolemodels...which, is what is lacking with both of my friends and I;ve definately gone down that armchair psychiatry road with them which shows that yes, we are a product of our circumstance, but there comes a time where you need to take the reigns of your life and dictate the course of your future. But in my case, as a result I have such a great relationship with my fiancee and close male and female friends. I am rich in this regard (poor in many others, i do live in SF). But it also takes work, and I think these girls are afraid of the PAIN of the reality. But PAIN is the only way we learn our lessons and grow and change. Theyd rather maintain a cushy lifestyle "what about our apt?" then face the fact that it takes work to drive your own life and happiness. To face pain and there is the fear of it all which drives many people to keep going in negative situations- bad relationships, jobs or whatever. It takes courage to stand up to fear and face the inevitable pain, and courage seems to be a factor that is also lacking, another personailty trait you just cant inject in people. C'est la vie. Anyway, thanks all of you, this discussion helped me a lot to know there are smart ones out there, and the great advice, which i will heed. I never thought i would come to the point wehre i felt so much anger and impatience with a friend, and it helps to get input from all of you for me to remember to just chill and take it as it comes. |
| linjohn | Posted – 9/20/2007 7:24:35 PM | show profile I've had a friend like this. Not necessarily doing stupid things in love, but in life. And I learned, as you probably already know, that you just can't change people, no matter how much you'd like to or however much you see that it would be for their own good. I've also been in the situation in which I think, "If I can just build her confidence, let her know she is worthy..." But I alone can not change someone's habits - especially when those habits may be decades old at this point. It's just too much for one person to take on. Good for you for being such a good friend to both of them. But you owe it to yourself to tell them how you see things. It sounds like you know the jargon, be gentle, etc., no need for being harsh when they are, after all, your friends. But they need to want to want to change, and until then, you are probably spinning your wheels. And then one day you will snap, say something you totally don't mean to say, and then you'll have a host of other problems that will distract from the real one. When I got to the breaking point with my friend, I told her that I loved her but unfortunately I just couldn't help her anymore. I researched a bunch of names of therapists and passed them along. She knew she needed help, and by that point, it was the only way I could. That might be too extreme for your situation (my friend was pretty extreme!) but who knows. It gets the point across. Good luck with it all. |
