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Topic: Another layoff
| Author | Message |
| ConfidentDesigner | Posted – 10/7/2007 2:51:50 PM | show profile Allow me to rant, just for a minute... I work for a non profit and this week, in their infinite wisdom, decided to outsource the design and web development services, leaving several of us without jobs. I've no idea if the work is going to India (wouldn't surprise me) or is staying local, nor do I really care. I've had stellar performance reviews during my tenure there and they've got no gripe with my quality of work, apparently. It's all about money, I'm sure. Why pay $60K to somebody if they can outsource for $10/hour, right? After being in the design field 25+ years and throughout that time being laid off no leass than 3 times for the same reasons ($$$), I've decided to seriously consider going strictly freelance while I reconsider what to do with the second half of my life. It's beginning to look like most places, non profits included, think that good design can be done by some "machine" or "Mac Monkey", as I so fondly refer to them. The profession has become so eroded in its importance and the thought that just because someone has a software package, ANYONE can do design. Why pay someone what they're worth after all those years of award winning experience when you can get a 23-year-old intern that you're paying $10/hour to do the work? As I mentioned, I'm seriously considering changing careers entirely (ideas welcome!). To what, I've no idea but I'm sick and tired of being treated so shabbily by idiot managers that don't know the difference between good design and a cheesy laminated -by-Kinko's low resolution powerpoint presentation (oooo, ahhh, how sophisticated!!!). It's nauseating and quite frankly I'm happy to be gone from that place if that's what they consider "high design". The education for preparation for ithis profession that my parents paid dearly for, all the years of award-winning experience are apparently worth nothing. Yes, time for a change. A BIG change. How did these guys get to be in charge anyway? |
| moon | Posted – 10/7/2007 6:12:11 PM | show profile Gee... Sorry to hear about this. I find this to be quite interesting because I have been turned away from being considered for a non profit position because I do not have advanced web development or design skills. And this wasn't even a design position, it was a writing/communications job. I've noticed that many of these non profits require at least intermediate web and design skills and I guess it is because resources can be limited and they want their employees to wear at least 3 different hats while performing one job title. But what surprises me about your story is that you are a design professional who appears to have been hired by a non profit to perform that specialized function. My experience has been that a lot of non profits don't have their own in-house design/web people, but expect other titles to perform these duties. I have been interviewing for Communications Development, Writing/Editing, and PR positions in the non profit sector and I'd say approximately 90% of those positions required web and design skills which are applied to the company's web site and design projects. I find this to be a bit off putting because I do not have advanced design/web skills. I'm novice at best and this has prevented me from getting writing and communications jobs in the non profit sector. It always made more sense that there should be at least 1 or 2 in house specialized design people instead of trying to load 2 or 3 job descriptions into 1 title. What little I do know about design is that it can be extremely time consuming and requires good talent and attention. Seems almost counterproductive to expect someone to write, edit, do research, conduct interviews, AND design and manage an entire website and put together brochures and presentations. But I guess that is the new world order for ya. Turning America's professionals into overworked, underpaid slaves! I would say that you would be better off in corporate if you intend to stay on staff. Corporate still employs entire design departments and you may have a better chance looking into this sector. Good luck! |
| moon | Posted – 10/7/2007 6:23:09 PM | show profile Gee... Sorry to hear about this. I find this to be quite interesting because I have been turned away from being considered for a non profit position because I do not have advanced web development or design skills. And this wasn't even a design position, it was a writing/communications job. I've noticed that many of these non profits require at least intermediate web and design skills and I guess it is because resources can be limited and they want their employees to wear at least 3 different hats while performing one job title. But what surprises me about your story is that you are a design professional who appears to have been hired by a non profit to perform that specialized function. My experience has been that a lot of non profits don't have their own in-house design/web people, but expect other titles to perform these duties. I have been interviewing for Communications Development, Writing/Editing, and PR positions in the non profit sector and I'd say approximately 90% of those positions required web and design skills which are applied to the company's web site and design projects. I find this to be a bit off putting because I do not have advanced design/web skills. I'm novice at best and this has prevented me from getting writing and communications jobs in the non profit sector. It always made more sense that there should be at least 1 or 2 in house specialized design people instead of trying to load 2 or 3 job descriptions into 1 title. What little I do know about design is that it can be extremely time consuming and requires good talent and attention. Seems almost counterproductive to expect someone to write, edit, do research, conduct interviews, AND design and manage an entire website and put together brochures and presentations. But I guess that is the new world order for ya. Turning America's professionals into overworked, underpaid slaves! I would say that you would be better off in corporate if you intend to stay on staff. Corporate still employs entire design departments and you may have a better chance looking into this sector. Good luck! |
| ConfidentDesigner | Posted – 10/7/2007 7:01:18 PM | show profile thanks fo rthe response, Moon. I guess they're planning to outsource my job and the web guy's job to some marketing firm but...they haven't gotten pricing yet for those duites. I'm sure they'll be quite shocked. Who knows...could be a nice freelance gig for me. OR...wouldn't it be funny if I got a job with the marketing firm they're hiring and I worked on their account. Oh, to be a fly on the wall in that meeting... |
| catlondon | Posted – 10/8/2007 11:50:52 AM | show profile moon: I've been facing the same thing when applying for nonprofit comm jobs. I can use Photoshop, Dreamweaver, etc. but I'm not a designer, although my other skills are strong. But you need to have the whole package now. I like to think that if Hemingway were looking for a newspaper job today, he'd have to be able to layout his stories as well as write them. Confident Designer: Are they outsourcing your jobs in order to bring down the percentage of budget spent on overhead? Sometimes you can get away with a "consultant" as programmatic work while that same person on payroll just adds to your administrative overhead. Just a thought. The thinking behind nonprofit salaries--that if you give the employees enough for a decent life you're somehow cheating the programmatic work they are doing, work which wouldn't get done to begin with unless these organizations existed--boggles my mind. People don't mind paying for laundry detergent knowing that the corporate CEO is getting millions in bonuses, but heaven forbid if their $20 dollar a year donation goes to a NGO where someone makes above $30,000. |
| ConfidentDesigner | Posted – 10/8/2007 11:55:08 AM | show profile catlon-they didn't explain to me why they're eliminating our positions. I am not understanding your point. What does "programmatic" mean in this context? |
| catlondon | Posted – 10/8/2007 12:40:22 PM | show profile There are two tiers in nonprofit land. The program staff, those who work directly on the mission of the nonprofit, and the and the "other" staff, those who support the people who do the program work. Funding depends greatly on just how low you can go on administration and overhead--so if your design work can't be directly benchmarked to the success of the mission, then it becomes akin to the rent and office supplies costs, a necessary evil but one that should cost as little as possible. |
| sue ellen mischke | Posted – 10/8/2007 3:56:30 PM | show profile Head up, CD! Maybe it's time to start thinking about freelancing. Take your 20+ years of experience and consult clients on what good design is. Or, just do that until you find your true passion. It's never too late for a career change. Good luck... |
| ConfidentDesigner | Posted – 10/8/2007 11:42:59 PM | show profile Angela:Funny you should mention this as this is the route I'm seriously considering now. Any ideas on how to market myself and to whom? Catlon-You're right. That's what I am doing. But I was hired two years ago to art direct the plethora of projects this org. has (hundreds!) and now I'm outsource-city. Yup, done with this game! |
| eriksherman | Posted – 10/9/2007 7:58:07 AM | show profile | email poster If you want to freelance, why not offer to bid on the work they're trying to outsource, pointing out that you have less overhead than an agency. You'd still need to charge a fair amount (and you have to calculate what a bottom line hourly rate you'd need), but the agency is probably going to charge at least that. ------ Free writer resources: http://www.eriksherman.com/WriterBiz |
| ConfidentDesigner | Posted – 10/9/2007 9:27:54 AM | show profile erik- Excellent idea. Thanks for that. We're actually going to be negotiating as early as the end of the week. That is a very good point! |
| ConfidentDesigner | Posted – 10/12/2007 12:06:31 PM | show profile ***UPDATE*** So, today is my official "last day" and after my $60K/year job was offered to my INTERN last week who makes a stipend of $1100/month, she turned it down and resigned. I've offered to do anything that comes up on a freelance basis because they said they were going to OUTSOURCE my position, afterall. Well, now they say it would be "helpful" if I came in to figure out what to turn over to the next person that comes in. So, they're not "outsourcing" at all. They're finding someone who makes half what I make to sit in front of a Mac (ala "mac monkey"), as mentioned in earlier posts. They out-and-out lied to me and the web guy who also got "outsourced". Yeah, just a little on the sleazy-slimy side. Makes me want to take a long, hot shower and quickly change careers! |
| mkelly | Posted – 10/12/2007 12:31:03 PM | show profile You are now an independent consultant, sir. Be happy to give them advice on turning over any work they want to turn over to someone else-- just charge them $75 per hour with a three-hour minimum for doing so. |
| catlondon | Posted – 10/12/2007 12:49:38 PM | show profile CD: You might want to contact your local EEOC. It actually sounds like you might have basis for a case of age discrimination. Was the webguy over 40, too? |
| ConfidentDesigner | Posted – 10/12/2007 1:09:04 PM | show profile yes, he is over 40. as is another woman in IT that was layed off. This is all about money. Plain and simple. don't know if we have a case. The state in which we live/work has no real employee rights unless it comes to gender or religious discrimination. |
| Marie | Posted – 10/12/2007 1:16:54 PM | show profile Um, age discrimination, along with most other discriminations, is a FEDERAL offense, covered by the 1964 Civil Rights Acts and its amendments. Get thee to a lawyer, with the idea of negotiating a settlement. Do not let this go. |
| Marie | Posted – 10/12/2007 1:23:03 PM | show profile Their lying to you is not against the law if they're not breaking a contract (at least I don't think it is), but laying off what sounds like 3 people over 40 and then trying to replace them with interns and others 20 years younger could look discriminatory. Again, go consult a lawyer who specializes in employment/labor law in your area (there's several law directories that can help you; if you're really stumped, your local librarian could be of help in this research). It will be the best money you ever spent. And it's rarely as expensive as people think. |
| catlondon | Posted – 10/12/2007 1:27:10 PM | show profile I agree completely. If all three of you are over 40, you are a protected federal class. It won't cost you anything to ask the EEOC to look into it and I believe that they can't legally fire you because you make too much money. They either have to eliminate the position or prove that the position has substantially changed and you aren't qualified for it. Do the rest of us over 40s a favor and fight for your rights. |
| Marie | Posted – 10/12/2007 2:32:26 PM | show profile The EEOC is really going to take too long. That's why I would simply consult a good lawyer (all three of you could split the cost) who will listen and ask you a ton of questions and then contact this organization and sit on it to settle with you. You should come out with enough money to set up a freelance business. It sounds as if the young intern who resigned would verify that the same job (that's kind of what's key) was offered to her at a fraction of your salary. Please don't drop this. |
| catlondon | Posted – 10/12/2007 2:39:47 PM | show profile S/he can do both. Once a complaint is filed with the EEOC, they MUST investigate and the organization will have to provide documentation etc. that they were not discriminating based on age. That doesn't mean they can't pursue a civil case at the same time. |
| Marie | Posted – 10/12/2007 3:05:11 PM | show profile Thanks, I wasn't sure about that. I'd do both, but I'd see a local lawyer first, who will evaluate the merits of your case and file the complaint with the EEOC for you. |
| Mr. Beemis | Posted – 10/12/2007 3:20:22 PM | show profile Time to Move On. There was an article in the Post this week that essentially said the U.S. is the only country where it's legal to fire anyone for any reason (or no reason) at all. So while it's tempting to think lawsuit, you have to stay focused on the future, not the past. I was laid off after 6 years (as a copywriter) when a new CD came on board. There was nothing wrong with my work or anyone else's -- she just wanted to "shake things up." So out went 22 people at a profitable company. The company then hired a crisis counselor -- for the people who did not get laid off! The next two years were stressful, but I worked half as many days and made the same amount of money. Now I'm back in a full time job that I never could have landed without those 2 years of freelancing. So, if I were the advice-giving type, I'd say you should leave with dignity, get on the media bistro freelance marketplace and update your resume/portfolio. First I'd sleep in for a few days. Good luck. |
| catlondon | Posted – 10/12/2007 3:58:43 PM | show profile As someone who was on the other side of an EEOC complaint (we fired an ethnic minority), I can say from experience that once you call the EEOC and file the complaint the company being investigated is in for a world of hurt. They then have no choice but to work with the EEOC, come up with the documentation, defend their position, subject their employees to interviews about past practices, etc. At the very least, the organization will think twice before it does something again. In our case, we had very carefully documented the transgressions and the EEOC declined to move beyond the investigation. Here's a link to a winning suit against a law firm: http://www.nytimes.com/2007/10/06/business/06legal.html and an age discrimination suit against Google (notorious in the Valley for its ageism) was just re-instated. So don't think you can't win. |
| westsidestory | Posted – 10/12/2007 4:40:55 PM | show profile try the contractor route first I don't know if I'd recommend going the eeoc route just yet, but I would certainly second what erik and Mk said -- offer to do the work as an independent contractor. Give them a fee for an hourly rate or for a flat rate that would equal your original $60K, plus add 20% over that (to cover your COBRA and other benefits). I and several folks I know have been able to parlay a staff job into a contractor gig. Go for it - and don't be afraid to ask for some real dough, and a contract. Be prepared to wait a few weeks while their legal people mull over your contract. This will work to your advantage while the intern attempts to do your work (be sure to ignore all phone calls and emails for at least 48-hours ). Keep the eeoc in your back pocket - I believe there is a time limit to how long you can wait before filing. You'll beat the bastards. And wind up laughing all the way to the bank, believe me. If you need a contract template, holler here. |
| Marie | Posted – 10/12/2007 5:36:58 PM | show profile Beemis--this isn't a question of someone moving on or not moving on. You don't mention whether you're over 40, or in another discriminatory class. The person can move on and still consult a lawyer about a settlement. Even if the poster decides not to go the legal route with an EEOC complaint or threat of a lawsuit, seeing a lawyer can result in a better severance package, or severance where none was going to be given. And if poster pursues a lawsuit, the company might just think twice about pulling this in the future. That's the bigger picture. Yes, I think getting contract work from this cleint AT A HIGH RATE is certainly something to explore. But this was mentioned and discussed before the poster realized his or her job wasn't being outsourced, despite what the organization said. The company isn't really looking to outsource the job; it's looking to find younger and cheaper people to do the work in-house. And to the poster--if the company asks you to come in and oversee the transition, bill the h--- out of them. Good luck. Oh, and if you are getting severance and you're made to sign some draconian document saying you won't sue them ro do a number of other things, be sure to have a lawyer look it over. It will prevent you from signing something that could hurt you later, and often they can get you a better severance deal, even if you decide not to go through with a legal complaint. |
