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Topic: Another layoff
| Author | Message |
| westsidestory | Posted – 10/12/2007 9:56:17 PM | show profile I have to second what Marie said about having a lawyer look over any termination agreement before you sign anything. In a pinch, just don't sign anything....if they press you about it, just say, "well I gave it to my business attorney and he/she hastn't gotten back to me." This should be good for a couple of weeks. And you CAN file for unemployment in the meantime. Doesn't matter if you actually don't have a labor/business attorney....stalling for time is always a good strategy. |
| ConfidentDesigner | Posted – 10/13/2007 1:56:01 AM | show profile Wow! Lots of advice to ponder. At the very least, I think I will seek legal counsel even tho I'm told that in my state employees have very few rights. Employers hold all the cards. But this is definitely a case of "bate and switch" when it comes to "outsourcing" the positions. This is clearly a case of hiring cheaper, younger labor to replace us. I think I will definitely go see an attorney or an EEOC counselor over the next week. I've been given a deadline of Oct. 22 to sign the severance agreement which says that I must relinquish all constitutional rights when it comes to suing them for discrimination, etc. and can never say anything derogatory about them ever for fear of losing my severance pay. I'm thinking they're clearly in the wrong. I need to go see about this. |
| ConfidentDesigner | Posted – 10/13/2007 12:23:09 PM | show profile Westside- What does stalling for time do? I'm not clear on that. Will it get me more money? You're right though about the draconian nature of the sev. agreement. I'm never aloud to say a disparaging word about the organization either. How's that possible? The fired me. Am I supposed to walk around touting their wonder after that? Besides, how can they PROVE I said any disparaging words if I do after signing the agreement? |
| Marie | Posted – 10/13/2007 10:17:15 PM | show profile First, there aren't many states in which employees have many rights. New York, where I am, is also one of the worst. So don't feel so defeated. The point is you might have a discrimination claim, which comes under federal law. You definitely need legal counsel, first, just to have someone read over the agreement--you might be advised to strike some of these clauses. Some might not even be legal. Counsel will also guide you as to whether you might have an age discrimination claim (you're asking for two things: reading over the agreement, and evaluating whether you possibly have a claim for age discrimination). Give all the details, and be sure to mention the other people affected. The amount of time you're allowed to think about the severance package is also governed by law, although it probably differs by state. In New York, for example, you're given a minimum of 45 days and are advised to seek legal counsel. A lawyer will be able to tell you if a week is all your state allows. A lawyer can also likely get you more time (or often you can get more time by simply asking). You can't be coerced into signing this. In New York, once you sign, you're also given 7 days to change your mind. Again, local counsel can tell you what your state requires and whether your agreement complies. Bear in mind that your company WANTS you to sign this ASAP, because until you do, you're a loose cannon to them, who could sue or disparage them at any minute. That's why it's good to drag it out--they might fear you won't sign and sweeten your deal to get you to sign. I think you need to get on this by Monday. If you don't know of an employment/labor lawyer through friends or family, here are two online sources for finding someone. Just plug in "employment" or "labor" (try both) for type of issue and your locale. If you don't like the way one lawyer sounds on the phone, call another one. Even if you do nothing else, you owe it to yourself to have someone look over the agreement, because you're signing away a lot. Counsel can likely help you get more money, or some other benefit, like exended health insurance. Here are the two sites, and there's probably others: www.findlaw.com www.martindale.com Good luck. |
| Marie | Posted – 10/13/2007 10:32:07 PM | show profile Actually, the martindale.com sites has the category Employment and Labor and gives you firms by state. I want to emphasize that raising the issue of age discrimination doesn't mean you're anywhere near a lawsuit, but a lawyer raising it to the company can result in your getting a much better settlement. |
| westsidestory | Posted – 10/15/2007 4:22:39 PM | show profile As Marie said, just letting them know that you're even considering the possibility of not signing it puts you in a slightly better power position. Do you know how much your severance is? Two weeks? A month? More? And I'm betting that deadline is flexible... |
| westsidestory | Posted – 10/15/2007 4:24:57 PM | show profile which state which state are you in? Some of us here might have a referral. I have two or three I often refer (for NY and Cal). Other posters may be able to supply a name that's applicable. |
| writesonwater | Posted – 10/15/2007 10:08:43 PM | show profile Go for the legal angle. It's putrid when companies do this and they shouldn't get away with it. Kick their asses, CD, for all of us. |
| Marie | Posted – 10/16/2007 12:12:17 AM | show profile And again, the "legal angle" does not mean an all-out lawsuit. It simply means exerting some pressure, which will likely bring you more money, which you need to set up the next stage of your career. The pittnace in severance the company pays you is NOTHING to them in return for the price of your silence. And if there's any hint, either by you or an attorney, that their action might look discriminatory in a court of law, believe me, they'll pay up. Remember, they want you to sign that document. Let us know how this comes out. If you were in New York, which is not at all an employee-friendly state, I could refer you to someone. |
| ConfidentDesigner | Posted – 10/20/2007 10:07:33 AM | show profile I am not in NY but have contacted an attorney in my area that represents folks that have gone thru this type of thing. We're playing phone tag right now but I'm interested in seeing if there's an age discrimination case here. Now that the HR boob knows about my meeting with an attorney, he's wanting to talk to me about my sev. payment, whatever that means. I told him to call me if he wants to speak to me. I've extended my signing for another week so I can talk to the atty. I'll keep you all posted... |
| Marie | Posted – 10/20/2007 1:19:49 PM | show profile This sounds great. I wouldn't talk to the HR boob until you meet with the attorney. Better yet, have the attorney speak (or write) to HR on your behalf. I'm glad you took these steps. Do keep us posted. |
| ConfidentDesigner | Posted – 10/23/2007 10:03:54 PM | show profile Turned over a new leaf today...I am now officially turning down freelance work! I've been talking about contractual arrangements with some fairly heavy hitters and am finding that I'm becoming quite successful. I should have done this AGES ago! As for the severance thing, I actually signed the danged thing and sent it yest. I FINALLY got a call back today from a lawyer, after leaving countless messages on voicemail to TWO lawyers. Literally, a day late. I have 7 days to revoke the agreement so I guess I'll call the lawyer back tomorrow. At this point, I just want to move on. I'm sick of dealing with this. I know this is what the company that laid me off is counting on but honestly, the system certainly doesn't make it worth the hassle of a possible lawsuit. If I didn't have anything else going on, perhaps I'd persue this but the fact is, I DO! I've got so much work I'm starting to turn down jobs and am able to pick and choose the work I want to take on. Got an interview next week for a FT gig too which I'll go on but am not all that interested in. I'm liking the idea of designing my own destiny. It's scary but I think it'll ultimately be very rewarding! Better than the Mac Monkey gig of yore. Feel free to tell me if you think I'm selling out or if you're supportive of my sef-preservation-moving -on mode! |
| writesonwater | Posted – 10/23/2007 10:11:04 PM | show profile Agree with Marie -- don't talk to HR or sign a thing until talking to an attorney. Keep close-lipped to everyone about it though -- it's possible that what an attorney MIGHT turn up for you is better leverage than anything. |
| westsidestory | Posted – 10/23/2007 11:31:43 PM | show profile CD: what's most important is that you do what seems right to you - moving on included. Congrats on that "getting out of jail" feeling - and welcome to the freelance biz. You've made a big step just realizing that you have that seven day grace period - understanding that you are in control of your future from now on. It is not always an easy road but it is a satisfying journey. |
| ConfidentDesigner | Posted – 10/23/2007 11:43:01 PM | show profile Turned over a new leaf today...I am now officially turning down freelance work! I've been talking about contractual arrangements with some fairly heavy hitters and am finding that I'm becoming quite successful. I should have done this AGES ago! As for the severance thing, I actually signed the danged thing and sent it yest. I FINALLY got a call back today from a lawyer, after leaving countless messages on voicemail to TWO lawyers. Literally, a day late. I have 7 days to revoke the agreement so I guess I'll call the lawyer back tomorrow. At this point, I just want to move on. I'm sick of dealing with this. I know this is what the company that laid me off is counting on but honestly, the system certainly doesn't make it worth the hassle of a possible lawsuit. If I didn't have anything else going on, perhaps I'd persue this but the fact is, I DO! I've got so much work I'm starting to turn down jobs and am able to pick and choose the work I want to take on. Got an interview next week for a FT gig too which I'll go on but am not all that interested in. I'm liking the idea of designing my own destiny. It's scary but I think it'll ultimately be very rewarding! Better than the Mac Monkey gig of yore. Feel free to tell me if you think I'm selling out or if you're supportive of my sef-preservation-moving -on mode! |
| InsomniacNOT | Posted – 10/24/2007 9:46:35 AM | show profile Getting a better severance deal doesn't have to involve a lawsuit. It can involve nothing more than a lawyer's letter and a $200 fee. Any extra money you get as a result could help you set up your own business. YOu can move on with a good severance deal more easily than with a bad one. |
| Marie | Posted – 10/24/2007 1:14:07 PM | show profile Exactly. And I would have a lawyer weigh in for you. As you can guess, I never would have signed the agreement before meeting with the lawyer, but you can still reneg on the terms within a week. The lawyer, who knows the law, might recommend striking some of the more draconian provisions (they might even be illegal). And you should try to get more severance, which a lawyer can do for you (or you can negotiate yourself, after a lawyer tells you what's possible). And if you're setting yourself up as an independent contractor, you should ask the the lawyer about legal things you need to be aware of there too. You can use the appt. for more than just this severance situation. And bear in mind that the severance will be taxed not like your paycheck but like a bonus or special payment. In other words, close to half will be taken out for taxes. You're not hapless here. The company WANTS you to sign this; otherwise your'e some kind of loose cannon out there. And the measly severance is a small cost to them. It means nothing. Get as much money as you can, because you're signing away a lot. If there's any grounds for a lawsuit (not that you need to wage one), they'll pay you more to prevent this from happening, which would trigger even a larger settlement and horrendous publicity. Good luck. |
