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Topic: no kids
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| voracious reader | Posted – 10/10/2007 2:40:26 PM | show profile Angela - While people are offering their thoughts about children and weddings, have you forgotten that you mention in your initial post that your husband is pressuring you to start a family? Right now, if you love your husband, your priority should be to focus on your marriage. Unless both of you are on the same page, you should seek professional help or I worry that in your next post you will be asking for the name of a good matrimonial attorney! As for everyone else, enough about the pros and cons of having children. This isn't about whether or not we want children. Nor is it about our friends' children. This is about Angela's marriage! Angela, be kind to yourself and your beloved and seek professional counseling now. |
| caitlinkelly | Posted – 10/10/2007 2:42:12 PM | show profile Angela, pressure from your husband is likely making an annoying situation (lost in babyland) even worse. No matter how unpleasant the consequences, you need to hash this out with him and perhaps with a counselor in the room with you to help sort through the emotions involved, whether anger or frustration, his and yours. It's a real issue. But it also feels like a bait and switch to marry someone who agreed to not have kids with you who is now changing his mind, so I would not make nasty jokes about his pliable second wife nor dismiss his change of heart as nothing major. It is. The peer pressure at your age to join the pack and have kids is intense and insane. Plus the larger culture positively fetishizes motherhood -- while there's no paid maternity leave, childcare will consume most of your paycheck (unless you earn a fortune) and college costs are risible and rising. The cute little babies your friends are excited about, for lots of good reasons, will also stress them and their marriages heavily. But your anger (which sounds like you're tired of feeling socially isolated), is something none of them wants to deal with, and nor should they, so losing your friends seems inevitable unless you can calm down -- and/or make some new non-breeder pals. If you're open to it, having some older non-parent female friends (as I am with a few women your age) can help remind you that -- while everyone in your cohort is expecting or wants to -- many cool women have chosen not to reproduce and they are not de facto Selfish Monsters. It's a charge we all hear along that unfashionable route and you may have to (figuratively or literally) cover your ears and go "lalalalalalala" a few times to get past it. Even at my age (45+) people simply assume I will do anything it takes to become a mother. |
| onmyown | Posted – 10/10/2007 2:54:23 PM | show profile Understand the anger Angela, I understand the anger. What gets me nowadays -- having never had a child -- is when I see quotes from celebrities in magazines such as "my life began when I had this child." Or, "I was not a whole being until I had my baby." And so on. Please, can't we be whole human women without having given birth??? Are those who are not mothers worthless??? |
| Donna Chang | Posted – 10/10/2007 3:01:08 PM | show profile Wow. I love you people. Yes, there is a serious marriage issue. Yes. I do need to have it resolved. I know this. I just don't know how to start or where to look. |
| ManhattanMatt | Posted – 10/10/2007 3:02:01 PM | show profile Angela ... "having kids just so they will eventually take care of you is pathetic and selfish" Welcome to the human race. That's pretty much the point of why we reproduce. |
| Donna Chang | Posted – 10/10/2007 3:18:57 PM | show profile MM...I don't agree. We're programmed to reproduce so that our genes live on; not so someone will drive us to Wal-Mart on Sunday mornings. |
| df | Posted – 10/10/2007 3:25:01 PM | show profile angela, start looking at your own wants and needs. hubby has wants and needs and they are not better or more important then yours, they might just be different. and the most important thing here is not your marriage, but what you want. if you don't want kids, having one will not safe your marriage. having kids ruins most marriages. Post scriptum: having kids so you have someone who will love you or even only drive you around is not only pathetic, but also sort of scary selfish. hire a housekeeper, more reliable, and most likely cheaper. also if they screw up you'll fire them and get a new one. |
| keltoi2 | Posted – 10/10/2007 3:42:07 PM | show profile Having kids or not is a very personal choice. People have no right to judge others if they choose not to have kids, but at the same time, those who choose not to have them have no right to look down on those who do. DF, I doubt "kids ruin most marriages". In my grandparents' day, most marriages had at least 6 kids or more, and the divorce rate was a minute fraction of what it is today. (Yes, societal pressures regarding divorce were different then, but it's much more than that.) I would say money problems, wrongly matched spouses, alcoholism, and too many folks who "just get bored" ruin most marriages today. |
| Donna Chang | Posted – 10/10/2007 3:54:56 PM | show profile I really think children ruining marriage depends on how you define marriage and how you define the constructs within the definition of marriage. For instance, if two people marry to be close to each other, to share intimacy and to simply be happy and enjoy life, I can see how children could ruin that. However, if two people go into marriage wanting to partner with each other and form an entity and willingly want to produce spinoffs of that entity they created, then I think children may contribute nicely to the marriage. However, I married for the former of those two examples. I don't want to make my marriage any more complicated than it already is. It's bad enough I hate the idea of having to discuss mundanities such as buying toilet paper and visiting the 'rents; I can't imagine discussing a child's homework or behavior or diaper rash. |
| catlondon | Posted – 10/10/2007 3:55:05 PM | show profile Angela: Always remember that the saddest thing of all is not the women who have babies and suddenly have their brains sucked out, it's women (and men) who have babies they don't want and then take their anger out on the children. If you've ever known or worked with a child whose parents don't like/want him/her and let them know it, sometimes both physically and emotionally (and it happens across all income and other levels), you feel MUCH better about the parents who do want their children, no matter how annoying they become. If you don't want kids, stick to your guns. It's a courageous, not selfish, decision |
| voracious reader | Posted – 10/10/2007 4:32:55 PM | show profile Angela - you say you don't know where to begin. But you did begin by mentioning in this forum that your husband is pressuring you to start a family. Now it's time for you to say that to him. From there it's up to both of you to decide whether or not it's time for counseling. Only you and he know. It appears as though you are very unhappy with the present situation and it colors your everyday experiences and relationships you have with people you love. Regardless of what the good-hearted people say on this message board, working out these issues with the help of a qualified professional will help you find more happiness. Good Luck! |
| Donna Chang | Posted – 10/10/2007 4:39:51 PM | show profile vw, I know. I have already had this conversation (many, actually) with him. We both know there is a problem. But I don't know how to find a professional to talk to. How do I find someone good? (That is how I don't know where to begin.) Where do I even look? |
| Donna Chang | Posted – 10/10/2007 4:50:44 PM | show profile And...to be honest...there is a part of me that doesn't even want to be bothered with fixing the problem because I think it will float away. |
| Cyrus | Posted – 10/10/2007 5:15:06 PM | show profile To add a different perspective here outside the marital issues, you'll likely find that over time the individuals you consider true friends may change somewhat, as people take different paths that may not mirror one another. It's understandable that you may not be that wild about baby talk, but it's a big part of your friend's life and -- trust me -- a lot of the reason she's talking so incessantly right now is probably due to the fact that, while she's excited, she's also freaking out a little bit. I've found child/family discussions to be very pointed -- especially when they come from people based in and/or around NYC. People tend to think their way is the right way and everybody else not choosing that path just has no clue. It was insane to be around our city friends just before my wife and I had our daughter last year because everyone made it out as if it was going to be an enormous undertaking and that because we were childless at the time we were naive and had no idea what to expect. As a result, we pulled back from them for a while and we just did our thing as we wanted. There's a lot of "flying by the seat of your pants," but it's not really that hard -- especially when we and most people we know are lucky to have an opportunity to raise children without some of the struggles our parents dealt with. As I joked before our daughter came along, "if people can raise kids on the Oregon Trail with typhoid, cholera and all that, I think 2 suburbanites can figure it out." Over time, our friends have come to understand that people choose to live differently than others, have different things they value and that everybody can go along and get along, as the saying goes. You might find it better to surround yourself with people whose situations are similar to yours -- at least for the time being until the other issues are resolved. ------ Cyrus Afzali Astoria Communications www.astoriacomm.com |
| Donna Chang | Posted – 10/10/2007 5:33:22 PM | show profile Thanks, Cyrus. I do admire your posts always. Good points. However, at 31, it is impossible not to be surrounded by a baby-crazed world, especially as procreating is pop trend. But, I'll get over it one day. I hope. Maybe I should just leave my husband and date some older rich guy who already has grown children so I don't have to go through this. (joking?) |
| df | Posted – 10/10/2007 5:42:50 PM | show profile angela, to throw some more oil into the fire: as far as i m concerned you don't have a problem, so you don't have to spend time on fixing it. Your husband has a problem. He knowingly got married to someone who doesn't want children and now is changing the rules halfway through the game. So why doesn't he spend some time on fixing the problem? and to all the happy parents: great for you, I totally respect that, I am happy for anyone who's happy and dedicated to bringing good responsible, intelligent, and caring individuals into the world. So you have your happiness, I have my own. You have your opinion, I have mine. I respect yours, and do not try to convince you to stop having children, maybe you stop convincing me I am wrong in not having them. Its sort of not possible to switch teams for this one. Kinda of like telling a gay person they are playing for the wrong team, only that would be considered not PC, while telling a non child liking female she's wrong and going to change her mind is totally okay. so I suggest, we all just keep our set ways and leave it at that. |
| Bleak Spouse | Posted – 10/10/2007 5:43:26 PM | show profile Angela: I found a photo of you online: http://www.p2.com.br/ccbb/05cl.jpg |
| df | Posted – 10/10/2007 5:45:56 PM | show profile BS your wrong, that's me. |
| Donna Chang | Posted – 10/10/2007 5:51:27 PM | show profile bs...i did look like that little girl in the back when i was growing up! you are brilliant and i still like you. mayeb i should run away with bleak...? |
| voracious reader | Posted – 10/10/2007 6:01:46 PM | show profile df- Is there a significant other in your life? If Angela's husband has a problem and it is putting Angela under pressure, then there is a problem in the relationship. Angela, please see your primary care physician. If you don't have one, then find one. Have a complete physical. Besides taking a toll on your emotional health, often "pressure" will also take it's toll on your physical health. Afterwards, talk to the physician and tell him/her that you and your husband need a counselor (that is if your husband agrees). If your husband doesn't want to go for counseling, then by all means if you are still unhappy, you should go. You can also check with your local hospital or mental health community center for a referral. Don't forget you can also check with the local clergy. It's going to take alot of effort BEFORE you enter counseling. As far as the problem floating away, it's very possible that it will. But it's also quite possible that either one of you may float away too. Angela, it's not about children, regardless of who changed their minds. It's about your relationship with your husband. |
| df | Posted – 10/10/2007 6:13:54 PM | show profile hi VW maybe you missed the point that i am happily married for a long long time. I just totally resent the point that one person in a relationsship is creating the problem, and the other one has to suffer through it without being at fault in the first part. traditionally thats the woman. especially if somethings wrong with her like not wanting children she clearly needs to get some professional help to fix that. because thats the not so hidden implication here. And sorry to say, theres no fix for that, you want or don't want children. no middle ground and compromise to be made there. theres no such thing as being a little bit pregnant as my grandmother used to say. |
| Bleak Spouse | Posted – 10/10/2007 6:29:23 PM | show profile angela: if you run off with me i'll fill you up with babies to keep the species going. |
| voracious reader | Posted – 10/10/2007 6:32:10 PM | show profile df- I noted that you said you were married, I just was wondering what kind of "significant" other was in your life. When it comes to a relationship, there isn't one person to blame or fault. The bottom line is if one of the people in the relationship is unhappy and it is negatively affecting their experiences and relationships, then it's time to do something about it. I will repeat what I said in my very first post, in my crystal ball I see a deal breaker if this issue remains unresolved. Worse, my crystal ball tells me that if it doesn't become a deal breaker, left unresolved, one party in the relationship may live very unhappily ever after. No blame, no faults, just a lifetime of regrets. That doesn't make for a happy marriage. Angela, it's time for counseling. |
| crimedog | Posted – 10/10/2007 7:32:16 PM | show profile bleak - you're killing me. |
| caitlinkelly | Posted – 10/10/2007 7:48:56 PM | show profile an older rich guy with kids will bring a whole new set of issues -- with all the kids, likely from different marriages, tussling over their inheritance if it isn't already locked up. It's every bit as messy as dirty diapers but it can cost thousands in legal fees to resolve and/or bitter fights. Oh, yeah, great solution! :-) Finding a decent therapist -- one qualified to counsel a couple and not just one person -- is not easy. If you know anyone who has done counseling, ask them for a recommendation; if you know a minister or priest or rabbi, they can also be a helpful source of someone skilled, not just some random counselor. You chose to marry for clear reasons that, by marrying you, your husband explicitly agreed to. If he now feels so differently as to threaten the foundation of the marriage, from your perspective, that's not an issue that will "float away". If he is truly now committed to becoming a Dad, he will likely go and find a woman to help him achieve that. Now you need to find out how committed he is -- to you and your marriage, or to becoming a parent without you. It's rough to face if he has really, fundamentally changed his mind after you took vows based on another understanding, but you can actively deal, or passively ignore it. Buying toilet paper and parental visits are not mundane -- if you dislike even those. They're...life. Marriage is filled with the mundane as it's essentially a shared life, not just the shiny bits. |
