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Topic: An O`Reilly claim
| Author | Message |
| newfrickinshow | Posted – 10/25/2007 8:49:04 PM | show profile America is a "noble country?" I'm not so sure, and I'm not so sure I even know what he's talking about. I would like some of the people on the blog to name things that are 100% noble and in no way self-serving. |
| drgonzo | Posted – 10/26/2007 1:11:36 AM | show profile The U.S. is the most charitable nation in the world for one. So sad that the media has brainwashed you and many others into beleiving we're the great satan. You'd consider North Korea noble, right? |
| newfrickinshow | Posted – 10/26/2007 3:43:32 AM | show profile Not completely North Korea was supported by the Soviet Union and China. This is the main reason we helped South Korea. Not out of nobility, but in our ever continuing desire to take out and diminish the USSR. Which was the only real threat to the United States at that point in time. We helped people and did good work, but our justifications were to support our own interests. Fight the commies. About 1/3 of US donations are to religious organizations. Which means some of it (especially that going to Catholic chruches) is spent on soup kitchens and helping the poor, but most is wasted on clergy salaries, marble statues, and stained-glass windows. Many people are also members of religions with tenents requiring tithes. It's not charity when your religion tells you that you HAVE to donate. And let's face it, most wealthy people who donate to charity only do it for the PR and tax benefits. We actually make charitable donations tax deductable in order for peolple to give to anything other than their church. And to top it off we donate to PACs, political organizations, and campaigns in order to get a return on the candidate we support. I donate to the ACLU every month because I don't trust the feds and think I may need their help some day. I donate to Clean Water action because I want, guess what, cleaner water. I've donated to Chris Dodd for President and Al Franken for Senate because I want to see them elected. I don't donate to organizations like The Heritage Foundation, Rudy Giulianni for president, and PETA because I think they're crap groups and want to see them gone. Keep in mind with your responses, I am a cynic. Which means I don't really believe anything is done with purely noble intentions. |
| Olbypocrisy | Posted – 10/26/2007 7:58:33 AM | show profile The ACLU doesn't have noble intentions. We give no questions ask free healthcare to illegals. |
| drgonzo | Posted – 10/26/2007 8:57:25 AM | show profile If you want to get philosophical, then yes, I'd agree that every action is in some way self-serving. But, in comparison to every other nation on the planet, the U.S. is the most philanthropic. Philosophy aside, I think that's what O'Reilly means. Also, there's no need to disregard our nation's generosity just because some of it is based on religious beliefs. Tithes aside, I would wager that the VAST majority of donations are given on the basis of helping others. Getting satisfaction out of helping others is a win-win for everyone, wouldn't you agree? On a side note, funding the ACLU is indirectly funding NAMBLA. Does that bother you? |
| newfrickinshow | Posted – 10/26/2007 4:44:09 PM | show profile ACLU No, our fear of communism and socialism have prevented us from doing anything truly noble. Providing health care and food to the poor was a good first step, which was started under Medicaid. Expanding that to middle class children under SCHIP was another good step, which has since been elimated by the pen of a cold, heartless, asshole. Instead we've given our medical industry over to HMOs that operate under the true capitistic premise. What's the worst we can overwork medical staff and the least amount of medical coverage we can give? High medical costs are created by lawsuits against neglegent doctors. Neglegent doctors are created by being overworked by a system that schedules patients ten minutes apart. The ACLU defends a lot of causes I don't like. I hate NAMBLA and their BS, but I will always support those causes right to be defended. The KKK are in my opinion a bunch of ignorant, moronic, asses that drag our society down. But they also should have every right to express their views, even on public property. Of course if I was Governor I'd have every right to be out of town that day...Maybe I can even arrange for their rally to be during fishing season. It's why I view a lot of the right as fascist. There's an attitude of thinking or disagreeing with something therefore it must be made illegal. If you don't like gays, don't have gay sex. If you don't like abortions, don't have one. If you are opposed to euthanasia, flag burning, gay weddings then don't do them! Stop forcing your beliefs and hang-ups on me! Again the lack of nobility, the party in the White House is only interested in defending the causes they support. Screw everyone else. |
| newfrickinshow | Posted – 10/26/2007 6:27:06 PM | show profile ah, crap That didn't entire sound right. NAMBLA, I oppose them and their desire to have sex with children. I just feel they have a right to a legal defense. They have the right to whine and complain that they're being discriminated against and try to get legislation through legalizing their shit. They also should be denied every time. |
| newfrickinshow | Posted – 10/26/2007 8:03:44 PM | show profile Good points for the most part If a neighboring country invades yours, sorry, were busy. Yeah. Until they attack us, it isn't our business. We gave support to Saddam Hussein, eventually making things worse. We gave support to Afghanistan when the Soviets invaded. Which gave stronger rise to radical Islam in Afghanistan. That didn't come back to bite us in the ass did it? We attacked North Vietnam without provocation and how did that work out? We were provoked into WW I and WW II, the War of 1812, and the American Revolution itself. We win when we're provoked and loose when reasons for starting are questionable. When a tsunami hits- call France. Probably should. When you consider our recent ability at rebuilding New Orleans, a 9/11 memorial, and ability to build and maintain infrastructure, we'd probably just make things worse. Famine, genocide? The U.N. should be available. Genocide like Darfur? W has already adopted a "fuck 'em" policy when it comes to genocide. I would say go to the UN there, get approval and DONT GO IN ALONE. In that case we're doing the right thing morally and if we're wrong, at least we're not alone like we are in Iraq. In case of famine, call Norman Borlaug. |
| Iron Eagle | Posted – 10/26/2007 9:29:53 PM | show profile Somoa |
| newfrickinshow | Posted – 10/26/2007 10:57:28 PM | show profile generally speaking nations aren't supposed to be noble. The US has done things that have benefitted mankind. Defeating Germany and Japan come to mind, but we only went after them because they attacked us at Pearl Harbor. A country's nobility can be judged based upon how it treats its people. Particularly its most vulnerable; children, minorities, the infirm, and the poor. Refusing to give lower middle class children health insurance because you don't want to pay taxes in not noble. Sending young men and women to die in an unnecessary war is not noble. Poor medical treatment of those veterans injured in that war is not noble. Being a partisan hack, having federal prosecutors go after a Democrat accused of bribery, but refusing to even investigate 2 of your own Repulican buddies who were named as recipients in the same testimony is not noble. Telling foreigners they're not entitled to the same rights as Americans is not noble. Any country that doesn't follow these recent American policies stands right now as more noble. You want a list of who I believe to be noble Americans. Warren Buffett who pledge his entire 30 billion dollar+ fortune to charity after he dies. Sean Penn who waited a couple days to avoid getting in the way, and still got to New Orleans from France and was saving people in a rowboat before our own federal government was able to get there. Norman Borlaug might be the most noble person in world history, though you probably don't even know who he is. The Red Cross, MLK, Jimmy Carter, and Bill Clinton have spent large times trying to help people and make the world a better place. Civil rights, Habitats for Humanity, and the Clinton Global Intiative are all "noble" causes. |
| drgonzo | Posted – 10/26/2007 11:45:58 PM | show profile Ok, now you've shown yourself to be completely illogical. We're not noble because we don't give the same rights to foreigners as we do for American citizens? Are you serious?? I suppose if you were president, there would be no borders, and we'd be giving free healthcare and education to all who enter our territory. Do you have any clue what would happen if you illegally entered ANY other country in the world and demand the exact same rights as the citizens of said country? Try burning a mexican flag on the streets of mexico city and demanding free healthcare. Wake up! I'm done. I was a fool for taking your earlier posts seriously. |
| newfrickinshow | Posted – 10/27/2007 1:01:39 AM | show profile Who said anything about us providing it? If, err, when I'm president there will be borders. And I will have a simple policy with illegals. People with full-time jobs and their direct family, get a W-2, and pay their taxes automatically get full medical coverage. Illegals will get medical services in emergency situations only, because it would be immoral and just plain wrong to sit there and just let them bleed to death when we could save them. I would bill them for a portion of the cost and offer them a government job to pay it off. We'd just have to find out what size fatigues they wear. They don't have to pay the bill but if they don't want to pay it, they can leave. And to deal with immigration I wouldn't waste my time and money on a wall. And I sure as hell wouldn't build it on the Mexican side of the border as we've been doing in some areas and all they do is tear it down. But in my last post I was spefically referring to those who we force into American responsibility. I would not treat a foreign prisoner any worse than I would treat an American prisoner. No torture, indefinite detainment without trial, or have black site prisons or mercenaries doing military operations. I'd honor the agreement America made with Cuba and give them Guantanamo Bay back. Going back on your world as we did is not noble. It actually paints Castro in a better PR position, which I think is disgusting. Frankly, I'd create a government policy that creates incentives for American corporations to move from off-shore headquarters to avoid paying their fair share of taxes. I'd also create tax incentives for corporations to create new, preferably clean industries in the United States and Mexico. I do this because in the interest of keeping it real, the only true way to keep illegals from crossing in large numbers is either to make America worse or Mexico better. I'd prefer the latter. |
| newfrickinshow | Posted – 10/28/2007 3:05:04 AM | show profile good point again My rants are long. I don't believe in sound bite crap. I'm not George W Bush and don't have to limit my points and arguments to ten a one sentence, two second catch phrase or less in order to fit them in my head. "They hate us for our freedom." "We're fighting them over there so we don't have to fight them over here." "The world is better off without Saddam." Of course he's still better than the poor Rudy Giulianni. Afflicted with 9/11 turrets during what could have been the prime of his political career. "Won't you 9/11, help us 9/11? Because 9/11 is a terrible 9/11 to 9/11. " My posts consist of responses that aren't typical, especially on the right. Where you probably read my posts and immediately look to your heroes Limbaugh, O`Reilly, Pat Roberton and Fred Phelps for your answers. Where do I look for my answers? Encyclopedias, history books, quotes, online videos, etc. And guess what else, I don't go to Media Matters either. So pardon me for not holding my responses down to a one line insult, a sarcastic rejoinder, or some mindless blather. My friend Bret think that's an intentional strategy. To be intentionally inane and retarded enough to end respectful and insightful discourse and drive intelligent people off the internet and blogs so that only the right-wing ignorant bafoons can rule the world wide web. Well I'm don't plan on going anywhere so either give up or start warming up that other brain cell. |
| urgalint | Posted – 10/30/2007 12:08:00 AM | show profile | email poster Provocation Newfrickinshow, the reason Japan attacked us is that we stood in the way of their conquest of China. We were selling them fuel oil and machine parts (airplane engines and such). We stopped selling them oil and parts and told them to quit their conquest of China for us to start selling to them again. They were dead in the water without oil and would not give up the conquest of China. (After all, empire worked for England.) They had to get oil from somewhere. that somewhere was Indonesia. Indonesia was a colony of the Netherlands, then occupied by Germany and not a problem. The American Philippines were across the path of Japan to Indonesia. Since we already were obstructing the war in China, and judging us to be spineless, they sought to take out our naval forces in the Pacific and take our base, the Philippines. From your perspective, just how was it in American's own (selfish?) interest to deny lucrative trade to Japan during the Depression? |
| urgalint | Posted – 10/30/2007 1:53:11 AM | show profile Noble Country What is noble to you? Do you mean martyr? Is the only way to do something noble to die doing it? A part of the job that fireman like is being a hero, feeling great pleasure in doing what others cannot and being a part of a select group, apart and in some ways better than the norm. A part of the job a pediatrician likes is being the one you come to when your child is sick. An emergency room nurse feels great pleasure in saving lives and is annoyed by people with colds clogging up the system. These people are not honorable because of their selfish motivations? During the recent fires in California, my wife was a little incensed that rich communities were getting an unfair share of the firefighting resources. I agreed for the most part. But if I were a firefighter, I would save a $40 million mansion before a $240,000 house. An 8 year olds room is full of irreplaceable treasures. No doubt about that. But that is true no matter how much daddy makes, and a $40 million mansion may have a Rembrandt, a Picasso, or a Remington Bronze. Long after these people are dead and gone, the world would be a poorer place for the loss. I would make my choice on what I valued, what I judged best, partly because it is mine to make at that time. You may disagree with me, but it is my choice at that time. ...and you thought I did it to get my picture in the paper. This is true for the leaders of nations, also. That the public's response to accusations of torture are so politically one-sided I take as just proof that if the person in the White House were of a different party, then there would be no outcry. The last president, of a different party, fought a beloved and splendid little war against some benighted little balkan country. One little news story was of a TV-guided bomb targeting a commuter train. The last little vision on the TV was of some guy reading a newspaper on his way home. It was a war waged on the people in order to wear them down and cause them to surrender without a direct military confrontation. It was so claimed by the other party and the media. That would be the very definition of war by terror. What an honorable man. So being noble may come down to Being The Right Party, and being a little fascist s**t to Being The Wrong Party. Now the current president may be the worst president of the 21st century, of all centuries. Time will tell. The competition may even be fierce. But he is not evil incarnate. His errors will probably be judged to be of significant magnitude, but they are errors of lack of competence, not of evil intent. He has genuinely tried to be a uniter and not a divider. That is his biggest error, his greatest evil, Being The Wrong Party he cannot do that, only one Being The Right Party can be a uniter, can terrorize-er, save the people, and lead us all to the promised land to live happily ever after. |
| newfrickinshow | Posted – 10/30/2007 3:43:13 AM | show profile I never said that individuals within the United States weren't noble. As a matter of fact, many are and it doesn't necessarily require self-sacrifice. I've said before on this thread than American Norman Borlaug may be the most noble person ever. But those running the country generally can't be. I have tremendous respect for fire fighters, particularly after what I've seen of the cops in St. Paul, Minnesota. To be kind, the SPPD are a bunch of worthless shitbags. If I had the choice between saving the mansion or the quarter-mil house, you are right that I would go for the quarter-mil house. If someone can afford a 40 million dollar mansion, they can probably afford other things, including fire insurance. Many of the areas being attacked by wildfires don't have houses even for sale for under $300,000. Whereas the poor people living in a $240,000 place and can't afford better probably have everything of value they own in that house. And no insurance to top it off with. A few paintings might get damaged which I'd be upset about, but it's better than a family made homeless. Though the fact that as a child I nearly lost a house to fire and an insurance scamming step-father may make me biased. And my problem with George Bush is not his party. It's his partisanship that I don't like. He ran for the office of president in 2000 copying Clinton's triangulation political philosophy. But it eventually became about the Ronald Reagan preaching to the base and supporting his party at all costs MO. I was apathetic about politics until 2001. After 9/11 as much of the country did, I fell in line in support of Bush. But his determination in continuing policies, no matter how they were going with no change in sight. Staying the course is generally not a good idea if the bridge is out. There is not a single democrat in the cabinet. District attorneys have been replaced being "loyal bushies." His economic policies have lead to the American dollar to now be worth less than $0.96 Canadian. His sin is pride. He seems to me to be a very egocentric person, not willing to listen or consider varying points of view. It's why the war in Iraq was so messed up. He?s actually fired generals like Eric Shenseki before the war because they publicly disagreed with what Bush?s plans were. Joseph Wilson was supposed to be a dagger in the Iraq war plans, finding out Saddam didn?t try to get uranium from Niger. It appeared war might not be necessary. Instead Wilson was belittled and attacked, his evidence dismissed. He claims to want Christian-based initiatives coming out of his administration. Wouldn?t ?healing the sick? be a Jesus-like thing to do? But no, that bill got vetoed. W talks a good game, but his actions seem to reflect something different. I truly believe George Bush hasn?t tried to be a uniter. I feel that what Cheney said to Patrick Leahy on the floor of the senate summed up the Bush philosophy on those that disagree with them. That philosophy being, ?Go fuck yourself.? Individual Americans need to be more noble than ever. To counter the arrogance that exists in the leadership. |
| newfrickinshow | Posted – 10/30/2007 4:02:02 AM | show profile The war in Kosovo was not all that great of a thing either. It's one of my few critiques of Bill Clinton. I do feel the impending impeachment proceedings had something to do with the decision in all honesty. And on a side note, I honestly appreciate your post. It at least was intelligent and meaningful. Not the pointless insults and jabber that come from Olby and Frank. I just Bush would admit when he was wrong once in a while and stopping listening to the advice of people and organizations who haven't been right on a damn thing since W was named the winner of the 2000 election. |
