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Topic: Age Discrimination
| Author | Message |
| katestarrr | Posted – 12/4/2007 12:00:23 PM | show profile [quote0 You know, I don't need anyone to tell me I have a booger hanging out of my left nostril. And I don't want to hear about it. Eventually I feel it, it tickles, and I reach up to pick it. I can handle the booger myself, thank you. And I'm not all that embarassed by it because as you get older you realize that everyone has at one time or another had a booger hanging out of his or her nose at some point. We all survive, whether we tell or are told about the booger or not. It's just a booger, after all. We all have them. [end quote] On the contrary, the vast majority do not feel the tickle of the booger. They go to a messageboard to ask people why everyone was looking at them so funny throughout the day. And no, you cannot handle the booger. If you could, you all wouldn?t be getting fired. ConfidentDesigner- The booger analogy was mine- [quote] You guys give us 'kids' advice that we need and often don't take, and I'm giving you some of the same kind now...Its like that booger hanging out of your nose...its hard to find someone to tell you its there. I'm telling you now that you have a booger hanging out of your left nostril. [endquote] It comes from how younger people don?t talk to older people?because we think you?ll fire us, or you know someone who can. Booger is another way of saying ?what you?re doing wrong?. |
| mad fingers | Posted – 12/4/2007 1:00:21 PM | show profile Been reading this with great interest. Was just asked to out my age for an interview I did (as subject, not writer), and was not too happy about having to do it. I can easily shave 10 years off my resume, and thankfully, have the looks to get away with it. I'm job hunting now. Hate to think I will be defined by a number I can do nothing about, but I fear, that's the way it may be. BTW, Kate: "We make competition for you by excepting jobs for $30,000/year and crappy (if any) benefits" That should be "accepting." |
| seeattleme | Posted – 12/4/2007 4:14:10 PM | show profile so far as I know, I've never been fired because of a booger hanging out of my nose. And my boyfriend of 22 plus years has seen plenty of boogers hanging out of my nose, as I have his, and he hasn't left me over them, nor I him over them. My point is as you get older you start to realize that the little crap, the "attitude", the "go-get-em", "beat em" show'em up gusto fizzles fast. What employers are looking for now is a work ethic. Anyone can learn how to use a computer. My three year old neice does just fine on it. Yes you don't want to be averse to change, you gotta roll with the changes, etc etc and all that bad REO Speedwagon crap, but you also have to be tolerant, accepting, a team player, not arrogant to your fellow employees (or employers), and not behave as if you are the smartest person in the room all the time. Because that will always be the guy who owns the company and signs your paycheck, and that person will fire you if youa re constantly telling him he has a booger hanging out of his nose. Or even if you just tell him once. |
| Mirage | Posted – 12/4/2007 4:19:55 PM | show profile Granitegirl, did you even read this thread? Because your comments are pretty far off-point. |
| seeattleme | Posted – 12/4/2007 4:20:42 PM | show profile and what I said was, of the discrimination that occurs, age discrimination is the EASIEST to prove because you can determine a pattern the easiest. If said number of employees are let go in said age range or two or three years, there is age discrimination going on. If a lawyer didn't call you back it's because there was no pattern--you need to talk to other emplyees who have been fired from the company and go to the lawyer with those names as well. And compared to finding out if racism or gender discrimination has resulted in a firing, age discrimination is the easiest to evaluate as the patterns are pretty much black and white. It's also the most common form of discrimination, especially in this day and age of layoffs. Look at the stats from the Labor Bureau--white men in their 40s and 50s suffer from layoffs at a greater rate than any other group. |
| seeattleme | Posted – 12/4/2007 4:21:34 PM | show profile Mirage, I scanned the thread. The booger analogy caught my eye. If you don't like my comments don't read them. |
| katestarrr | Posted – 12/4/2007 6:13:01 PM | show profile mad fingers... "I can easily shave 10 years off my resume..." Thats "off of my resume" If you don't like what I have to say, just come out and disagree with me instead of picking at grammar. |
| catlondon | Posted – 12/4/2007 6:18:47 PM | show profile Many grammar books agree it's perfectly acceptable to omit the preposition if the meaning is clear without it. "Get your elbows off the table," rather than "Get your elbows off of the table." |
| katestarrr | Posted – 12/4/2007 6:18:52 PM | show profile ...And lets just drop the booger thing. Either I didn't explain it right or you guys are misunderstanding it or something, but no one appears to get it, anyway. |
| ConfidentDesigner | Posted – 12/4/2007 7:21:01 PM | show profile granite-How would they even KNOW if there was a "pattern" or not if they don't call me back? Duh! |
| ConfidentDesigner | Posted – 12/4/2007 7:22:57 PM | show profile Pattern: first guy to get fired was 56 second guy to get fired was 55 third to get fired was 55 fourth, fifth, sixth to get fired: 41, 51,52 All this in the past 6 months. Yeah...there's a pattern, alright. |
| seeattleme | Posted – 12/4/2007 9:27:06 PM | show profile bingo! pattern! talk to them! go y'all see a lawyer-man! You think a lawyer 's gonna just take up your case cause you SAY you were disriminated against? NOT how it works. He-llo real world. He-llo reality. Don't get pissy with me because I'm telling you what a labor lawyer says. (And he's agreeing with you, BTW). Do the work. prove a pattern. If one lawyer won't listen go see another. But getting pissy with me AIN'T gonna solve YOUR problem. |
| seeattleme | Posted – 12/4/2007 9:28:32 PM | show profile You don't wanna read about the "booger thing" don't read about the 'Booger thing" but don't tell US what to post about. This is America. In case you hadn't heard. |
| writesonwater | Posted – 12/5/2007 12:00:10 AM | show profile Correct me if I'm wrong, but the booger thing seemed like a class-action insult, capable of insulting anyone "older" -- at least, it seemed like it was designed that way. Kate made several sweeping "you people" sort of statements about "older people." Give yourself 15-20 years and find yourself on the other side of the "you people" thing, young 'un. No wonder "us people" sometimes talk down to you. And good luck getting along in the workplace with that giant booger, er, CHIP on your shoulder ... |
| ConfidentDesigner | Posted – 12/5/2007 12:03:33 AM | show profile I don't even know how to respond to that except to suggest laying off the booze to a few posters. Okay, this chain has gotten pretty low. Let's all move on, shall we? Thanks for the (ahem) feedback. |
| mentat | Posted – 12/5/2007 3:35:33 AM | show profile I kind of regret posting my original message since I now feel on further reflection that maybe the reason I'm not being called is that I'm applying for jobs very different from the bulk of my experience, and these companies probably want someone who's been doing these specific jobs for years and years. (I'm applying for corporate positions and most of my experience is in journalism.) I'm not thinking too much about it at all anymore. I'm just plugging away... |
| katestarrr | Posted – 12/5/2007 10:04:05 AM | show profile granitegirl and writesonewater- Seriously. Chill. |
| katestarrr | Posted – 12/5/2007 10:05:27 AM | show profile and catlondon- funny, we never used any of those manuals in any of my journalism classes. |
| katestarrr | Posted – 12/5/2007 10:24:05 AM | show profile I take back the ?chill? thing. Because you are not going to chill. You are so mad already that its obvious that nothing productive is going to come out of this. You are not reading all of my posts (as granitegirl admitted to just skimming), so many of the things you say that I say are not true. You are not even taking your own advice. The same person who told me not to tell you what to post just told someone else what comments not read 7 posts earlier. The same person who says I make sweeping remarks about a generation has made sweeping remarks themselves several times in this topic, and probably will still claim that they have not. If anyone was listening, they are not anymore. I have gotten few responses with actual substance, and the rest are just designed to belittle me. Really, who cares about a stupid booger analogy? Who cares if I make grammar/spelling/typing mistakes? I know that I am not always right, and have admitted to mistakes made in this post. But a common problem with older people is that they do not. It is hard for everyone to see their own mistakes. Well, if you are always so right, I am sure that you will figure out how to gain back the respect that you once had by yourselves. |
| mad fingers | Posted – 12/5/2007 11:12:44 AM | show profile 1. I know what a booger is, and always appreciate it when someone tells me (tactfully), that there's one hanging out of my nose. Same thing goes for skirt tucked into back of pantyhose and trailing TP out of the loo. 2. I have always attempted, as enfeebled as I am by old age, to learn whatever new programs were available to me at work, but I am not a computer whiz by any stretch of the imagination. In addition to my foot-pedal sewing machine, I can manage a scanner and a digital camera. However, if someone I worked with (younger or older) had skills that were superior to my own, I found it really was more productive to let them handle certain tasks, especially those that fell within their job description. 3. Mistakes? From minor snafus to major fumbles, I have always tried to own up to mine. In a long career, there have been some beauties. Not taking responsibility for one's actions has nothing to do with age. It's about integrity. Either you have it or you don't. 4. From my experience with a few bad apple interns and recent grads, some other things not in the manuals at J school: common sense, ability to see the big picture, facility to write a sentence that doesn't read like a thumb in the eye, and basic research skills, especially following up. 5. From my experience with great interns and recent grads, some other things not in the manuals at J school: natural curiosity, respect, willingness to do the grunt work because we've all done it (most of us fossils included), willingness to go the extra mile, and lack of the entitlement gene. |
| MDSAL | Posted – 12/5/2007 12:02:58 PM | show profile OK, this is why I hate being around "journalists." Nasty, petty, and sticklers about the most inane, unimportant things. It's like being in a class of know-it-all dweebs who get off on making others "wrong." OK, copy editor wannabees...go to work! Blech. |
| catlondon | Posted – 12/5/2007 12:15:10 PM | show profile Hi, Kate: For you, from a college grammar web site, just because I'm old, bitchy, and bitter and have so few pleasures besides trampling on the tender feelings of the young--even though they all are so much smarter than I am. Enjoy your youth. Unnecessary Prepositions In everyday speech, we fall into some bad habits, like using prepositions where they are not necessary. It would be a good idea to eliminate these words altogether, but we must be especially careful not to use them in formal, academic prose. Not: She met up with the new coach in the hallway. Instead: She met the new coach in the hallway. Not: The book fell off of the desk. Instead: The book fell off the desk. Not: He threw the book out of the window. Instead: He threw the book out the window. Not: She wouldn't let the cat inside of the house. Instead: She wouldn't let the cat inside the house. (or use "in"] There are more, but you get the drift. |
| catlondon | Posted – 12/5/2007 12:29:02 PM | show profile But seriously enjoy your youth. Don't worry so much about jobs: travel, have lots of sex, move to somewhere you've always wanted to live, stay out late, go rock climbing, pick grapes in France. Soon enough you'll have bills and a family and aging parents who need daily assistance, and a job where you're the boss and everyone comes whining to you about all their personal/workplace problems, expecting you to fix it somehow, and your knees won't work like they used to. |
| Chamsah | Posted – 12/5/2007 12:58:43 PM | show profile | email poster Old and cranky! Can we PLEASE get back to the topic!!! Fine, I'll be old cranky one (I'm in my late 30s no less, but that seems to be ancient in this industry) who reels everyone in. But this is a really important issue here and the tendency on these boards is to get wildly off-topic and the message gets lots. And I really think that we can change things, or at least make an attempt, if we had some sort of rallying within our professional community. Here's one of the few places to do it and yet it seems nearly impossible to simple get a message across! I was about to apologize for being a party-pooper but you know what? I brought up this topic MONTHS ago and here it is again, filled with some great posts and others about grammar and freaking boogers. I mean, really. GET A GRIP PEOPLE! Can't we have a serious discussion about something that affects many of us now and THE REST OF YOU down the road Confident Designer, and others who have joined do you have any ideas (other than a lawsuit) on what we can do about this? Feel free to email me off board. |
| nandy | Posted – 12/5/2007 3:25:54 PM | show profile Chamsah One thing I plan to do is keep an eye on my company...my whole department is, in fact, over 30, and the majority are over 40. I would say most of us fall in the 45-55 range. There has been some reorganization that may trickle down to us (we're Production; it's already hit Sales/Marketing and Editorial). And I know my boss is and has been concerned with the operating budget because everyone has been here for so long (10+ years) that their salaries are over the comparative ratio amounts. While I don't see how they could do it AND keep things going, I'll never say we couldn't be let go. In the last reorganization 10 years ago, they striped the department down to the bones and outsourced most of the work. But someone may come up with a great idea how to produce books without a production department. Hey, a lot of the editors think they can design covers already! |
