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Topic: I'm sick of journalism
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| smurfy | Posted – 11/28/2007 6:24:59 AM | show profile | email poster This is the time to try all things out while you are 23 Age 23 is the time to try everything out! You will look back years from now and realize this moment in your life was the time to be open to the world and explore and try as many opportunities as possible. Especially if you are not happy with your life (at least you are complaining about your lack of salary) so right now, get out and do something (anything) new. I started out while I was still a college student working in media. I was a desk assistant, then a tape editor, and finally an on air reporter and documentary producer in a major city. I got hooked on it while I was working the lowliest jobs in the news room. I loved it so much, my parking fees cost more than what I made at my TV job. BUT, I Loved it! I never ever complained about not making enough money. But then, I never compared myself to anyone else. Then, in my mid-20s my media career had to do a detour. I got married and moved to a remote ranch, so I had to do other things with my life. You ask what can you do once you have worked as an editor? Being an editor and/or a journalist is the absolute best training for almost any thing else that you do in life! As an editor or journalist - you have pretty much an ALL ACCESS pass to life! I can tell you that I have used every bit of my editorial/journalism training for my work in other industries. In fact, its my journalism training that has given me the competitive edge to great success (as a journalist you have to cross check facts and get those facts right the first time, you have to get information fast, your story has to be fresh so you have to always think outside of the box, you have to be fast on sizing up a news story and be able to communicate it clearly to your viewers, you have to work (thrive) well under deadlines, you have to have confidence to be able to get the sources to give you information even though they may be a CEO and hard to get, you have to be persistent to get your story, you have to be able to forecast trends, etc.) All of the attributes of a well trained editor/journalist are fantastic traits to have if you want to go into business, law, medicine, consulting, politics, the list is limitless. So while I lived on a remote ranch, I still did some part time work for the local ABC-TV affiliate. While I was doing stories on the local economy I learned that the state was experiencing a huge economic boom. So, six friends and I co-founded a local bank that eventually made it through a merger to Nasdaq. In fact true story - our bank president was only 23 at the time, and I was also still in my late 20s! He now owns one of the nationally famous sports teams. I bought, rezoned and sold land to developers and commercial real estate, did some international deals with U.S. companies including developing a high rise in Beijing, all sorts of crazy stuff like that. Being a trained journalist gave me the ability to be inquisitive and think about things all around me. It was easy to do research, since that is what a reporter does for every story anyway! Yes, I made more money in real estate and banking, but honestly that wasn't my motivation. It was just something I could do that was compatible to my television broadcast career. You know what - years later - while I've never left it completely, I've chosen to come back in full force to my first love, my comfort zone, the original world that I have LOVED so much that has brought me so much joy and opportunity and has enriched my life beyond my wildest dreams - Media! |
| Bleak Spouse | Posted – 11/28/2007 8:34:10 AM | show profile >>>It's something you do with your heart, because you want to make a difference ha. make a difference in what? making sure people are duped into believing iraq has WMDs? getting the news out that britney and k-fed split? and even if you didn't have this job, it's very easily filled by someone else. which means you're not making a difference because the world would still get the same info regardless if you do it or not. |
| Mirage | Posted – 11/28/2007 10:09:20 AM | show profile I was wondering that myself, Mae. |
| spring2007 | Posted – 11/28/2007 10:46:05 AM | show profile mae, i just caught that and was looking through the posts to see if anyone else did. its not even 3rd person, its like she's responding to her own post. whats up with the split personality, hun? |
| egaferas | Posted – 11/28/2007 11:01:58 AM | show profile Hey everyone, Yeah...all the split personality syndrome is V's roommates' fault (us). All of us work in media, and we knew she was posting about her crappy day and thought we could log on and respond anonymously, BUT it ended up posting our responses with her screenname because she was still logged in to our communal comp...and we have no idea how to delete our posts! Anyway, the game's up for us! We're crawling back into our holes now. |
| pamelabeth | Posted – 11/28/2007 11:32:02 AM | show profile i've had that happen too... ...when i've posted on a communal computer. bleak, i do know what you mean, and i feel that way sometimes; but lies about iraq and blather about kfed aren't the *only* types of articles/journalistic coverage out there. you know that. and even very small pieces, not hugely influential on the surface, can make a difference. i did a little piece about an art installation on the topic of aids in the reagan era. it was very short, very small. but the artist told me that for weeks, he saw people coming in holding the article--looking for the exhibit, having read about it. i was really pleased. lately, i think that, for example, the "village voice" coverage of "the real giuliani" is making a difference, as word gets out to non-new yorkers about what that man is really like as a leader. |
| minty409 | Posted – 11/28/2007 12:00:13 PM | show profile UM . . . why is "Veronica" responding to her own posts??? And while I think the language was a little harsh, I agree with other posters. At 23, you don't deserve to make more than beans in this industry no matter how good you are. I mean, outside of maybe law and medicine, who makes great money two years out of college? There is definitely a whiff of entitlement to this post - sounds like someone doesn't want to do the drudge work necessary to eventually advance - in perhaps any field. That said, journalism pays pathetically little - that's why many people, particularly women, get out once they have children. The pay is too low to support a family and frankly, in many publishing offices, you just don't see a lot of middle-aged women. Someone once said to me that you have to be terrifically lucky or a trust fund kid to survive in this business. |
| chucho | Posted – 11/28/2007 12:40:01 PM | show profile If money is so important to you then what difference does it make what you do? Just get into something that pays a lot of money, since that seems to be the prime motivation here. I know some pretty unhappy rich people, tho. And I couldn't live with myself shilling Halliburton stock (or the stock of any publicly traded company that engages in immoral behavior) . It's too whorish for me. Living debt free and within your means opens the way to living with less and therefore having more options for having a job that you enjoy rather than a job that pays the mortgage. I'm not immaterial, I just live inside my means and spend money on quality rather than quantity (the European style of consumerism). The short answer: leave your job, if you can, since you despise it so much. What can you do with editor's experience? Well, you're 23 and don't have very much experience, so I'd say: not much. Go back to school and become a cancer curer or a stock trader, if you have the ability to do so. |
| Bleak Spouse | Posted – 11/28/2007 12:50:19 PM | show profile >>>I couldn't live with myself shilling Halliburton stock what do you do that you can live with? Most journalism stories exist just to fill pages around adverts. Are you ok with that? And if you're a book editor in NYC, you're selling products in a way that's no different than selling Coca-Cola (your job exists to make money for a massive corporation by cranking out what will sell the best). |
| chopchop | Posted – 11/28/2007 1:03:54 PM | show profile Get creative! if it is the pay you hate, then it is a relatively small problem. I've been writing for the better part of 15 years and am twice your age. I started in publishing at 40K (highly unusual) but I had a set of skills that were unique at the time for the specific type of job. I also am fluent in more than one language, which helps. Realizing that it was not enough money to pay the bills even at the time, I quit my job and started writing books. I've published 5 books with a 6th on the way. (the only way I was able to publish my first book was because I was associated with a magazine, by the way. Don't quit yet!) I also started teaching at universities and technical schools. As a freelancer, or while working full-time, you should seek out different ways to make money within your related field. Get creative! If you like writing still, but want more money why not look into public relations, literary agency work, or simply apply for writing jobs not necessarily in publishing. I do a lot of different things to earn a living as a freelance writer and expert in my field. I've been at it for a long time, and others have been at it for longer. Don't get discouraged. I used to tell my 20+ yr old students to forget about making money and travel as much as possible for 2 years after graduating college. Absorb as much information as possible, because once you're back and working full-time you'll be that much more ready and able to create a career for yourself that does not necessarily stop at an office you share with others. Good luck to you...you are so young...frustration is not going to get you money...creative thinking is. For all it's worth... |
| katestarrr | Posted – 11/28/2007 1:53:30 PM | show profile There are a whole lot of things wrong with this post: "And while I think the language was a little harsh, I agree with other posters. At 23, you don't deserve to make more than beans in this industry no matter how good you are. I mean, outside of maybe law and medicine, who makes great money two years out of college? There is definitely a whiff of entitlement to this post - sounds like someone doesn't want to do the drudge work necessary to eventually advance - in perhaps any field. That said, journalism pays pathetically little - that's why many people, particularly women, get out once they have children. The pay is too low to support a family and frankly, in many publishing offices, you just don't see a lot of middle-aged women. Someone once said to me that you have to be terrifically lucky or a trust fund kid to survive in this business." 1. Everyone deserves to make more than beans, and putting age above talent sounds like that 'age discrimination' that you guys are always screaming about. Only young people can't sue about it. 2. There are a lot of industries where you can come out of college making $50K or higher. And by the way, doctors do not make great money right out of college if you consider the hours. 3. There is a whiff of entitlement to your post. Veronica already said that she doesn't want to do what is necessary. She has said it repeatedly, as a matter of fact. She is asking for another career. Answer the question, or don't bother replying. jeez. |
| two_tone | Posted – 11/28/2007 2:26:35 PM | show profile Hey, hey, people...play nice. Veronica surely has college debt and is wondering, like most of did at 23, if this salary was going to last us forever. I know at soon-to-be 33 I'm often wondering when the student loans will be paid off so that $215.63 I send Uncle Sam every month can go toward more "fun" things. We're a materialistic society, and it's very difficult to not want more when you worked so hard through college (ok, I assume, because I had a full-time job in college). One of my college friends bought a Mercedes when she got her first real job (repo'ed less than 6 months later). Cut Veronica a break...she lives in NYC for pete's sake. |
| mamamel | Posted – 11/28/2007 3:09:07 PM | show profile | email poster career suggestion veronica -- i started out slaving at a daily newspaper first as a reporter and then as a copy editor, making barely enough money to live on. when i was 25, i took a job as a copywriter for a retail company that i admired. i felt like a sellout for a year or so, until i realized how much i was learning about business, consumerism, fashion, trend forecasting, design, photography, and a whole bunch of other stuff that fascinated me -- stuff i might never have learned had i stayed in newspapers. i am trying to get back into journalism now, at 33, and feel more well-rounded because of my experiences in corporate retail. my opinion and advice: think about your other passions and look for jobs where you can combine them with your journalism skills. |
| mae | Posted – 11/28/2007 3:16:45 PM | show profile Have patience Veronica (and all your roommates), have a little patience. At 23, you have a long working life ahead of you. Journalism can't really be "taught" in school. You put in your time, learn from your mistakes, and in time, carve out a niche that few people can duplicate. Then, you might be able to make a decent living. Right now, you're entirely replaceable. Hence the low pay. Anyone can call themselves a writer, but not everyone can call themselves a doctor, lawyer, accountant, engineer, financial consultant without very specific education. |
| chopchop | Posted – 11/28/2007 3:27:20 PM | show profile Not the end of the world It's not the end of the world, if you are not quite sure where you want to go with your skills today. Be calm and think before you act. Don't make any decisions while angry/frustrated about your current situation. Think hard and do some research into other fields, which could use your skills. Make decisions only when you are calm (and generally in a good mood!) I agree with sjr. Some have been harsh. Perhaps we forget when we were in our 20s and wanting more than what we had. I think it's natural to feel this way in the world we live in, especially with everything that's put in front of us 24/7. I also know what it is like to live in NYC...and I'm not one to shop! Encouragement as always worked better than criticism, especially harsh criticism. As an educator, I always found that I got more out of my students by simply encouraging them to be solution oriented. Nobody can say what you do or do not deserve. Salaries are based on industry standards for the most part and can be unfair based on scope of work. Look outside the box. |
| chopchop | Posted – 11/28/2007 3:28:49 PM | show profile Not the end of the world It's not the end of the world, if you are not quite sure where you want to go with your skills today. Be calm and think before you act. Don't make any decisions while angry/frustrated about your current situation. Think hard and do some research into other fields, which could use your skills. Make decisions only when you are calm (and generally in a good mood!) I agree with sjr. Some have been harsh. Perhaps we forget when we were in our 20s and wanting more than what we had. I think it's natural to feel this way in the world we live in, especially with everything that's put in front of us 24/7. I also know what it is like to live in NYC...and I'm not one to shop! Encouragement has always worked better than criticism, especially harsh criticism. As an educator, I always found that I got more out of my students by simply encouraging them to be solution oriented. Nobody can say what you do or do not deserve. Salaries are based on industry standards for the most part and can be unfair based on scope of work. Look outside the box. |
| pamelabeth | Posted – 11/28/2007 4:47:07 PM | show profile | email poster a concrete suggestion, veronica: film and video editing? i know some who do this work and seem to be happy with their salaries. plus it calls on editorial/story-line skills; though, of course, you'd have to learn the particular technical skills that are also required. i have documentary goals (talk about a way *not* to make money!) and so have considered learning film and video production. maybe i'll see you in class! : ) less-concrete advice: don't sweat it too much. when i was 23 i had a hard time figuring out what i wanted for lunch, let alone what i wanted to do with my career. sometimes (some 15 years later) i still feel that way. and i second the poster who said, travel. travel as broadly as you can now. it will be harder to have the freedom later on. |
| flight risk | Posted – 11/28/2007 7:07:37 PM | show profile Veronica, you say you've been at it for a couple of years and you're 23? Is this a job that's evolved out of an internship? Or did you go at it right out of high school? What kind of publication do you work for? |
| VeronicaJ42 | Posted – 11/29/2007 12:14:22 AM | show profile I don't have Multiple Personality Syndrome!! Checked my post today and at first was overwhelmed by all the responses...thanks!...and then I also saw how I was seemingly responding to...myself. You can thank my well-intentioned but electronically challenged roommates for "anonymously" trying to balance out some of the more blunt responses :) We use a communal computer, and they thought they could have multiple screennames under one email address. I also didn't know if you changed your screenname, it changes for all your previous posts too! Though I do have conversations with myself, it's nothing I'd want to do on a message board...but it was definitely a classic wtf is going on moment. Thanks to everyone who told me what they did with their career paths. I love hearing about where this field can take you. I really was just having a bad day, and I appreciate those who sympathized with me or who were willing to give me the swift kick in the ass I needed. I just happened to be worried about a lot of things at once...namely, saving for the future...retirement, my kids' college, having an emergency fund. I know, I know, "Hey, you're 23!" But these things are important to me. I don't want to be 60 and living in a box! And, let's face it, when I'm 35, I don't want to be making 40k. I hope by the time I'm that age, it's NOT considered entitlement. Seriously, how do journalists save for retirement???? To answer the previous post...I interned at a regional magazine all senior year of college, then interned for three months after graduation at a national glossy. That internship turned into a full year, but it wasn't in NY. I got an EA job three months after the year at the internship. Now, I still work at a national glossy. I'll admit, I definitely was one of the lucky ones. If you need any more info, please let me know. Thanks again everyone! |
| katestarrr | Posted – 11/29/2007 10:29:23 AM | show profile something fishy is going on here... |
| katestarrr | Posted – 11/29/2007 11:13:10 AM | show profile ...you all visit the same website, where they know your screenname (they had to in order to know to respond to your post) but you don't know theirs (cuz they did it anonymously, and they can't have simply created a new screenname, otherwise when they signed up they would have automatically been logged into that screenname and not have posted accidentally under yours)... ...you sound a lot older than 23. you are forward-thinking enough to worry about college for two children, retirement, but even with two-ish years of experience, you didn't know that you were going to start out making beans. you said earlier that journalism salaries are 'notoriously' low... ...i have never seen anyone react so well to some of the harsh comments here... ...everything about this post is very extreme. the title of this post sounds very attention-grabbing, a 23 year-old making $12/hr with two kids, several friends in finance making $300K right out of college, a 16 year-old cousin making more... ...your roommates posted a response 5 hours after you during a work day-with all of these hours you're pulling, did you leave at 5, go straight home to tell them at which point they immediately jump on the computer, did you call them at work, im them, email them? all of this posting and communicating during the day might cut down on those hours... i don't know what it is, but something is amiss. |
| VeronicaJ42 | Posted – 11/29/2007 11:43:49 AM | show profile I sound a lot older than 23? Thanks...I guess? I turn 24 in a month or two. The reason for freaking out about finances is simple. I took a Personal Finance course in college. Money earmarked for the future is important to me. Shouldn't it be for everyone??? Sorry if other people my age don't feel this way...it's why I took the course. In terms of your accusations...if you notice at the bottom of the screen, it says "Click here to change your screenname." They thought you could have multiple screennames under one account, so they didn't bother signing off and on to their own ones. They just took a couple seconds to change the name to some jibberish, but didn't realize it changed the screenname for all my previous posts too. It was a simple mistake. Yeesh. Do I have to tell you which room we were in at the specific times during the posts? We have a communal computer because we can't afford our own laptops. Both of my roommates work bizarre hours at news stations, and I had taken off Monday and Tuesday to be with family while they were in town. Is that amiss with you too? Perhaps mentioning the friend was overly dramatic, but oh well. I was upset and venting. You're saying you don't think in extremes when you're in a bad mood? And anyone who lets harsh responses from strangers get to them needs a firmer grip on their priorities. It's a MESSAGE BOARD. Anonymity gives people courage to say what's on their minds. I'd rather have them be upfront. |
| dribbledrive1 | Posted – 11/29/2007 6:52:39 PM | show profile >>>It's something you do with your heart, because you want to make a difference Some people feel this way. I went into journalism because I like to write and was good at it, but it had nothing to do with helping society. If I could have gotten a job writing movies instead, I would have jumped at it. But I do agree there is little reason to go into journalism if you are not passionate about it, because there are other careers that are easier and more lucrative. |
| MDSAL | Posted – 11/29/2007 8:59:22 PM | show profile I'm sick of journalism Unless you're a child of privilege, I say bail. You can always satisfy your creative mojo by freelancing or writing short fiction and/or fiction and submitting it to one of the many journals out there. You're young--don't get trapped into a low-paying, going-nowhere profession. If you look at the mastheads of magazines and newspapers and do a little investigative work, you'll discover that the journalism profession has become even more about who you know and who you're related to. That's fine and dandy, but if you're just an average joe, you're in for a frustrating ride. Take your creativity and channel it into a profession that will compensate you for your time and give you the financial freedom to actually be creative during off hours. Being broke and overworked is never glamorous. I think you know what you need to do. |
| jsh8684 | Posted – 11/29/2007 9:05:22 PM | show profile I understand where you are coming from. I have spent a year and a half at a weekly asa reporter and rarely get time for myself. I'm 23 as well work often 9am to 8pm, most weekends and I haven't had a vacation yet. All for $11.50 without benefits and before taxes and I wrote about 12 stories, do most of all my photo packages and compose listings as well. There are many nights, or more mornings, where I do not want to get up and go to work and push the extra mile. I try to remember fun assignments I have had under my belt to keep my head up and just hope good things will come soon. It's always hard for those in our field and hopefully sticking together we can all get through it until the next thing comes along. I also try to have my friends withhold their salaries. It will only create more frustration. Good luck in the future. |
