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Topic: correct salutation?
| Author | Message |
| rhino writer | Posted – 1/2/2008 3:12:11 PM | show profile When pitching an editor I don't know, say, Jane Smith, I address my e-mail to "Dear Ms. Smith." This seems correct, but awfully formal. But "Dear Jane" seems too informal. What is the generally accepted/used saluation of choice? Thanks! |
| dribbledrive1 | Posted – 1/2/2008 3:33:59 PM | show profile A lot of people use: Dear Jane Smith: |
| ManhattanMatt | Posted – 1/2/2008 8:12:32 PM | show profile "Dear Jane Smith" sounds like the letter was generated by a computer. |
| joyeuxnoelle | Posted – 1/2/2008 8:26:59 PM | show profile first names I use first names. I've never known an editor who minded being address by his or her first name - not that I know oodles and oodles. Dear Jane Smith and Dear Ms. Smith both seem awkward and formal. Unless you know the editor is much older than I might use Dear Ms. Smith the first time and see how she responds. If she signs off with just her first name than I would use it from then on. But it seems to me even older editors go by first names. |
| ManhattanMatt | Posted – 1/2/2008 8:59:27 PM | show profile Using the first name only ... ... in a professional setting for someone you don't know is VERY inappropriate. |
| InsomniacNOT | Posted – 1/2/2008 9:53:33 PM | show profile Agree with Dribble. Use of formal salutations is going out. That's why they sound so awkward in many letter-writing situations. There are times when Mr./Ms. is still apropriate but the "Dear John Doe" for emails is happening more and more often and a good compromise. I don't find it sounds computer generated at all. More like "I feel uncomfortable call ing you both John and Mr. Doe." This is how language changes. |
| ManhattanMatt | Posted – 1/2/2008 10:31:26 PM | show profile No one addresses ... ...people by their first and last names together in person. That's why it looks so silly in print. And it's still forward to address a stranger by their first name in any setting, particularly in a professional one. I don't care what people at "big companies" are doing. Etiquette and good manners never go out of style. |
| jkdscribe | Posted – 1/3/2008 1:07:01 AM | show profile I decided to take the Dear Firstname approach once when applying for a thing with ASME in college. The professon who helped me through it--who, for the sake of anonymity, has written for one of the biggest, if not the biggest, news mags out there--saw my salutation and looked at me as though I'd insulted his mother. You will definitely never lose points for being formal. But you run a risk with first names. As for "Dear First Last" to me it just sound odd. It catches my eye for that brief momet and makes me think about it when I should already be thinking about the pitch. |
| dribbledrive1 | Posted – 1/3/2008 3:42:37 AM | show profile Personally, I don't think it looks silly in print, but to each his own: Just do whatever feels right to you. Ultimately, it's trivial and whether you say "Dear Jane," "Dear Ms. Smith," or "Dear Jane Smith" won't matter. This is one of those areas where you'll find some people, like Matt, will tell you will utter certainty what is right and wrong, even though there isn't any right or wrong. --No one addresses ... ...people by their first and last names together in person. That's why it looks so silly in print. And it's still forward to address a stranger by their first name in any setting, particularly in a professional one.-- |
| ManhattanMatt | Posted – 1/3/2008 3:51:14 PM | show profile Dribble ... "Personally, I don't think it looks silly in print, but to each his own: Just do whatever feels right to you. Ultimately, it's trivial and whether you say "Dear Jane," "Dear Ms. Smith," or "Dear Jane Smith" won't matter." Ah, but it DOES matter if you're writing ME a letter for a job and you disrespect me in the first line by taking an inappropriately familiar tone with "Dear John", or you send me a letter that sounds like a computer-generated mass mail with "Dear John Smith". I won't get past the bungled salutation before the letter goes into the circular file. Show respect. You can't go wrong. |
| Mag Girl | Posted – 1/3/2008 4:38:25 PM | show profile I actually agree that a Dear FirstName LastName sounds like a generated form letter. I always go with formal salutations on first e-mail/letter, and for the reasons Matt says- you never know what people's preferences are. If they respond back with only my first name, then I will convert to that format if that is what they prefer. |
| Mag Girl | Posted – 1/3/2008 5:06:08 PM | show profile I agree with Matt. I think Dear First Last sounds like a form letter. And I always use Mr./Ms. upon first reference in e-mails/letters because, as he said, you don't know preferences, and it's better to err on the side of formality. If they respond back with my first name, then I stick with their preference of less formality. |
| Mag Girl | Posted – 1/3/2008 5:06:46 PM | show profile sorry for the double post! It gave me an error message the first time and didnt show up- weird. |
| dribbledrive1 | Posted – 1/3/2008 5:54:10 PM | show profile Ah, heck, no matter what you do, you're going to tick some people off. That's life. I once did a very successful direct mail pitch for my writing services, and yet one editor felt compelled to write me an angry letter that the pitch defamed all my fellow writers. I wrote him back (this was before email) and told him another editor -- who edited a magazine on direct mail, in fact -- said it was one of the best pitches he'd ever gotten, and he eventually put me on a $2 a month retainer. So I tend to shrug when people offer up their subjective opinions on topics like this, where there is no right or wrong, and no research to guide you. In reality, I doubt the salutation will have any impact on your success/failure rate. It's hard for me to imagine many people taking your lead and tossing out a letter simply because it said "Dear John Smith" instead of "Dear Mr. Smith." --Dribble ... "Personally, I don't think it looks silly in print, but to each his own: Just do whatever feels right to you. Ultimately, it's trivial and whether you say "Dear Jane," "Dear Ms. Smith," or "Dear Jane Smith" won't matter." Ah, but it DOES matter if you're writing ME a letter for a job and you disrespect me in the first line by taking an inappropriately familiar tone with "Dear John", or you send me a letter that sounds like a computer-generated mass mail with "Dear John Smith". I won't get past the bungled salutation before the letter goes into the circular file. Show respect. You can't go wrong. -- |
| Bee News | Posted – 1/3/2008 6:09:55 PM | show profile I would stick with Dear Ms. Lastname or Mr. Lastname. If you are unsure (of the sex) because of the name then (although awkward) I would go with Dear First Last. |
| InsomniacNOT | Posted – 1/3/2008 6:46:03 PM | show profile When I was an editor and people would write Dear Ms. Soandso, I felt they were not striking the right note, which it is important for a writer to do. As for ManhattanMatt throwing out a job app without a formal salutation, I would be grateful as I wouldn't want such a rigid boss, If I got the job he'd be on my case for not wearing nude hose. Who needs that? BUt sure, if you like nude hose and your dream job is Actuaries Monthly, never ever leave off the Mister. |
| ManhattanMatt | Posted – 1/3/2008 7:34:15 PM | show profile Not really. "Ah, heck, no matter what you do, you're going to tick some people off." You're much more likely to "tick" someone off by being too familiar than being too formal. |
| Righter | Posted – 1/3/2008 8:01:28 PM | show profile I think in general you should feel things out...I've used both Mr/Ms and just firstname on different occasions. For example, if you're pitching a magazine that's known for its sarcasm and sense of humor it's safe to say you might sound like you don't fit in with a formal Dear Mr. So and So pitch. And if there's any room for doubt, I'd just say Mr/Ms the first time and then see how they respond. Though 9 times out of ten when I've done this, it always switches to a first name basis after that. |
| ManhattanMatt | Posted – 1/3/2008 8:02:56 PM | show profile Righter ... "And if there's any room for doubt, I'd just say Mr/Ms the first time and then see how they respond. Though 9 times out of ten when I've done this, it always switches to a first name basis after that." This is all I'm saying. For subsequent communications, follow the recipient's cue. But for the initial contact, it's better to err on the formal side. |
| Righter | Posted – 1/3/2008 8:04:19 PM | show profile I just remember a little anecdote that illustrates my point. In college, I applied to an internship at an Urban/hip hop magazine. I addressed the editor by Mr and he promptly emailed me back with the salutation of "What's up, thislilgirl" I got an interview, but not the internship. At least he was kind enough to give me a shot. |
| prdiva | Posted – 1/4/2008 11:19:31 AM | show profile I always use first names only. >> I am an adult and so are they. Equal footing, in my humble opinion. |
| rhino writer | Posted – 1/4/2008 1:37:59 PM | show profile Wow, this has gotten so many responses! Since I prefer to err on the side of formality/etiquette, I guess I'll stick with "Ms. Smith" for the time being. I do like the suggestion of remembering the context, though -- maybe "Yo!" for certain publications? (just kidding!) And when I'm not sure of the gender, or which name is the first name (such as with some Asian names), I do use both. But I am an adult (and probably older than some of them!), so I also see the point about using first names. Argh! I think the innate informality of e-mail is part of the issue. In hard-copy business letters, "Mr"/"Ms" seems mandatory. In e-mail, however . . . |
| Mag Girl | Posted – 1/4/2008 2:47:56 PM | show profile Oh, but PR diva...if you're in PR, and you're writing a reporter- you're NOT on equal footing! You're essentially asking them to do something for you, which puts you lower on the totem pole, essentially. And I say this as a PR person, not a magazine writer. And there are plenty of media folks who do get a bit put off my over familiarity when you have never spoken to them before. I wouldn't say they all immediately delete as Matt says he does, but some do bristle at it and are more reluctant to hear you out. |
| dribbledrive1 | Posted – 1/4/2008 3:45:36 PM | show profile Personally, I think this is much ado about nothing. Over the years, I've used every type of salutation imaginable, from the most formal to none at all to "Hey, kiddo" and I've never seen any connection between the salutation and success/failure. The notion that saying "Dear Ms. Smith" vs. "Dear Jane Smith" vs "Dear Jane" is going to have any statistical effect on the success/failure of a pitch strikes me as silly. Ultimately, I don't worry about ticking anyone off, because any successful approach will fail with a certain percentage of people. And often, really ticking off a small percentage of people is a good thing, because it makes a bigger impact on others. But salutation -- doesn't matter/ --Not really. "Ah, heck, no matter what you do, you're going to tick some people off." You're much more likely to "tick" someone off by being too familiar than being too formal.-- |
| dribbledrive1 | Posted – 1/4/2008 4:07:15 PM | show profile This is an interesting perspective. You could say you are asking the reporter to do something; or you could say you are offering the reporter valuable information to do their job. A PR person is basically a salesperson, and the most successful salespeople I know usually don't consider themselves lower on the totem pole than clients. When I am selling my writing services, I know that I don't think that way. --Oh, but PR diva...if you're in PR, and you're writing a reporter- you're NOT on equal footing! You're essentially asking them to do something for you, which puts you lower on the totem pole, essentially. And I say this as a PR person, not a magazine writer.-- |
