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Topic: Affirmative Action
| Author | Message |
| alpharose | Posted – 1/8/2008 11:32:57 PM | show profile I hear so many comments about affirmative action and some friends and I were discussing it today and discovered we have different views. It came about because a person where I work has been promoted to reporter. A few of us agree she cannot write, but the other day we WITNESSED with our own eyes the editor writing this person's FRONT PAGE story for her. Now, I know it is true because I spoke with the senior editor who unwittingly told me that she is "helping her organize her story." Now get this, she is white. I hear all these people talk about black and hispanic people who get opportunities, yet it's never mentioned that they happen to be qualified too, but this person is not qualified at all for the title of reporter. Now, before someone who doesn't know me say I am jealous or something silly like that, I happen to be in great favor with the senior editor who constantly praises me for going above and beyond my duties and excelling at what I do. I just want to know what do all of you affirmative action haters call it when incompetent white people get employment opportunities and advancement? |
| katestarrr | Posted – 1/9/2008 10:24:14 AM | show profile | email poster i haven't really noticed this hostile environment toward affirmative action on this board that you seem to be hinting at. and i have to point out that affirmative action doesn't only include minorities-actually it helps out white women more than most (i think). and how do you witness someone writing a story? did you watch them for the hours that it takes to write a story? i don't know, i'm not in your situation, but incompetent people of all colors, shapes, and sizes get wrongly promoted in every field for a variety of dumb reasons. its not right, of course...too bad i have no suggestions for fixing it. |
| redheadedone | Posted – 1/9/2008 10:35:51 AM | show profile I just heard a story about a 22 year old guy who just got a reporting job at the New York Times. Does he have any previous reporting experience? Nope! But his sister just got promoted to a different department, so they gave him her old job. You may be witnessing good old fashioned nepotism. |
| UnemployedNNJ | Posted – 1/9/2008 12:35:37 PM | show profile Katestarr you have been reading and actually paying attention to my previous posts!!! Affirmative Action does benefit white women more than any ethnic groub,but to that I say... what can you do about it? It's not going to go away so the best thing for you to do is focus on yourself and work hard to get to where you want to be. I have to do it everyday. It's not easy and it's definitely not easy to ignore but I can't consume myself with anger or resentment. I agree with the previous poster also nepotism is alive and well. So is favortism, racism, and any other ism you can think of. Expecting these things to change overnight or in the near future would be like magazine editors not getting an in on a job based on who they know. |
| beenthere | Posted – 1/9/2008 2:53:03 PM | show profile AA benefits white women? My friend, a white woman, has been up for 13 assistant prinicpal jobs in local school districts. In EVERY CASE, a minority has received the position. EVERY CASE. I find it hard to believe that out of those 13 interviews that 1) at least once she had to be the most qualified and 2) in EVERY instance a white person was NOT hired. It's easy to check as the positions are public record. I also was dismissed from a contract on-site gig because a minority claimed she overheard me in a conversation where racial slurs were used about her. I had never even met this woman, let alone talked about her. A full investigation was launched, everyone I worked with was interviewed and all claimed that I had not said or participated in such a conversation, including a man that was of the same ethnicity. I was still let go, for fear of retribution from this woman. She cost me that contract and subsequent contracts, as I was unofficially black balled from being hired again. And my contractor, who had held the same contract for the last three years, was passed up the next year for the gig. The funny thing is if they had even bothered to ask me about my personal views, management would have discovered I was practically engaged to a man of the same ethnicity two years prior. I would never had uttered such a slur, not would I have tolerated anyone who did so in my presence. Puh-lease--for every story there is an equal and opposite story. |
| UnemployedNNJ | Posted – 1/9/2008 3:01:22 PM | show profile Beenthere Tell that one sob story to the dozens of minorities who don't even get called for an interview based on their names. I have been on several interviews for positions I was definitely qualified for (maybe overqualified) only to find out they hired a young white girl (who may have graduated college the same year as me or a year after me) who has never held a job in that industry, but had 2 or 3 internships. Lifes not fair but I can tell you that unfairness happens moreso to minorities than white women. |
| reporterwriter | Posted – 1/9/2008 3:13:00 PM | show profile A lot of good reporters aren't the best writers. Writing and reporting are two different skills. At the beginner level, most people are stronger at one or the other. Even later, a reporter who can't write can be coached, organized and rewritten because they've provided the building blocks for the story; a writer who can't report is beyond any help an editor could provide. |
| detour_memphis | Posted – 1/9/2008 5:14:34 PM | show profile Don't Worry About It... The reporter who has the editor's help will fail later when that editor is not around. In the media world of today - poor writing skills will come out and she will end up working at Wal-Mart. So - you focus on your job, your writing, and your life - don't worry about others!!! |
| beenthere | Posted – 1/9/2008 11:17:08 PM | show profile "Lifes not fair" That is my point exactly. We all have stories--trust me I have more than those two stories about reverse discrimination--but we all have the choice to sit around and moan about how tough it is, try to rectify the injustice if possible, or to move forward. I'd rather not spend my life in "victim" mentality. I hate that word. The contract I lost was worth about $25,000. Not small change by any stretch. But I choose to move forward. So did my friend, who eventually moved out of state into an area that wasn't so conscious of how people looked, but instead impressed with her credentials. As has been discussed ad naseum on many threads, discrimination exists in many forms, in many areas, and for many misplaced reasons. It will not be going away anytime soon. So we can make ourselves miserable or simply: Move On And Be Happy With Who We Are. |
| alpharose | Posted – 1/10/2008 2:15:10 AM | show profile Thanks for all your responses ... I have had a day to cool down, and it was great to hear all your responses, some confirmed my thoughts, while others gave me a new perspective. As for whether I watched the editor write the story for the reporter, no. I had a suspicion. but when I later spoke with the editor, she confirmed it. And the teacher who was passed over, I have noticed that there is a trend of certain jobs more willing to advance people of color, the media outlets do not fall into that category. It tends to be more state and government jobs, where AA is enforced. Although I believe AA was started to right historical wrongs, today, it just is not a good program and the most skilled person who is a good fit should get the position. |
| katestarrr | Posted – 1/10/2008 11:07:41 AM | show profile whoa, i didn't say all of that... first of all, beenthere, applying for 13 jobs doesn't mean that you will inevitably be qualified for one of them. and i looked this up...affirmative action is to help 'minorities', minority meaning anyone who is not viewed as being in power, not necessarily groups that have fewer numbers. this means that aa is for blacks, hispanics, women, etc... while i haven't received any benefits from it that i know of, there is potential for it to happen in the future. second, to comment on the 'the best person should get the job' thing. the best person becomes the best person through how they grew up, where they went to school, blah blah blah...not everyone has access to the best elementary school, so they can't get into the best high school, so they can't get into the best college, and blam-o-they wind up unqualified. i think that aa should be axed, and something should be put into place to help disadvantaged children. waiting until people are 30 years old is too late, and useless and unfair. |
| chucho | Posted – 1/10/2008 1:49:08 PM | show profile What annoys me about it is that they always ask about your race but they don't ask whether you have any physical handicaps. Who faces more discrimination in the workplace? (Or rather, who gets quietly looked over for a position and given lame excuses for not being hired?) Crippled people never get asked their "special question" on the job application form. Also: if you're African American and you've excelled in school, you will often get the job over a white male with the same qualifications based solely on race, which is in itself racist. There might be very legitimate socio-economic and historical reasons for that, but that doesn't matter much to the individual person who might feel shafted and doesn't think it's fair that he gets to personally shoulder the burden of history or social discrimination. In any case, I woudl like think that affirmative action (which I generally support, in spite of these drawbacks) has an expiration date -- especially considering the fact a woman and a black man just because the first in their respective categories to win a presidential primary. |
| candylilacs | Posted – 1/10/2008 3:04:01 PM | show profile In my workplace they have hired three white guys when I know of two very qualified women of color who applied. Not only qualified, but also spoke another language! (And in those jobs it would have been helpful.) Why were they hired? I don't know. That's unfortunately the problem with hiring period. I think even with all the "weeding" that goes on, skilled hiring professionals still only have a 4 percent accuracy, at least according to Richard Bolles. And sometimes you have to wonder if people are hired because they look more or seem more like the hiring person and it makes them feel more comfortable (whether admitted or not.) ------ http://www.mswritesguide.blogspot.com |
| Mag Girl | Posted – 1/10/2008 3:48:40 PM | show profile That's true candylilacs. And also, in some cases, men would be considered a minority in a particular office. In my experience, men have been in the minority in all of my workplace teams. |
| trufflesauce | Posted – 1/11/2008 5:32:48 PM | show profile Why do you assume she's getting this special treatment just because she's white? It could be for any number of reasons... equally wrong, but it's also wrong for you to think it's because of race. Is skin color all you notice? To be honest, you sound like the only racist here. |
| seeattleme | Posted – 1/11/2008 7:19:05 PM | show profile I'm generally pretty liberal, and I support Affirmative Action. But you can't deny that AA was the reason Jayson Blair got away with what he got away with for so long. AA should be economically based. Big Cs out there should be forced to hire individuals, even college grads, who can prove they hail from backgrounds where dad and or mom made less than $50,000 a year. |
| nes229 | Posted – 1/11/2008 9:00:03 PM | show profile Why should affirmative action apply to white women? In our society, they are the least discriminated against? This just makes me mad. Why do they always get the benefit of the doubt? I have noticed that if there is a white woman who is less qualified for a position, she will still get the position because the employer sees that she has potential or whatever. Meanwhile, no one is ever willing to give these same opportunities to minorities. The media industry is full of incompetent white women looking for something to do until they get married and yet they keep on moving up the corporate ladder. Reading posts like this just make me mad. |
| seeattleme | Posted – 1/12/2008 1:06:22 PM | show profile I agree, white women don't need affirmative action. But all women do need laws protecting their employment while pregnant, and they get alot of protection from the Family Leave Medical Act. When it comes to layoffs, white men in their 30s , 40s and 50s are grossly over targeted. Minorities and women are not layed off at nearly the same rate. |
| Vox-o | Posted – 1/14/2008 12:58:25 AM | show profile One thing I have always noticed... only losers complain that race is holding them back from getting the job they want. Minorities complaining that white people are racists, white people complaining that reverse discrimination is holding them back.... makes no difference, 9 times out of 10, the complainer is a loser. I don't think that is a coincidence. |
| Vox-o | Posted – 1/14/2008 1:00:11 AM | show profile And trufflesauce makes a good point maybe it isn't race... Maybe she was promoted to reporter because she gives good head. |
| katestarrr | Posted – 1/14/2008 10:14:57 AM | show profile of course the complainer is usually a 'loser'-someone who actually is being held back by race usually can't be the ceo of the company. |
| foodlit | Posted – 1/14/2008 10:42:32 AM | show profile This is how people are usually hired When I was with a large bank onsite in hr, we had a practice in place to present a diverse slate of candidates for all openings. Then, of that slate, the hiring manager was free to choose whoever he/she felt was the best overall fit for the role. So, we would put together these slates for every search, and even when all were qualified, it still came down to this, as mentioned above, "And sometimes you have to wonder if people are hired because they look more or seem more like the hiring person and it makes them feel more comfortable (whether admitted or not.)" Take the looks part out of the equation, because even when diverse candidates were hired, the above still held in that the candidates 'fit' into the department better, from a personality and cultural standpoint. Bottom line, whoever 'clicks' with the hiring manager and is qualified will get the job. Chemistry is key. That is why it can be so baffling to interview for a job that seems like a slam dunk and you don't get it. Yet the person who does may have some little thing in common with the hiring manager, maybe they share a sense of humor, or both play tennis, or are from the South, or are vegetarians, or anything. |
| HyancinthGirl | Posted – 1/14/2008 11:47:18 AM | show profile foodlit is on target I got one of my very first jobs because I lived 5 minutes from the person who was going to be my boss, and we both lived 70 miles from the job location. It's a field I'm no longer in, but he was willing to make a bit more effort to help me learn the job because we had a good connection. Maybe that's why this editor is mentoring this candidate. |
| ghh_1044 | Posted – 1/14/2008 11:47:23 AM | show profile WOW! You are revealing your own racism here, clearly. You have no idea if she got promoted because she is white. Chip on your shoulder much??? Intolerance cuts both ways, as your post clearly demonstrates. |
| chucho | Posted – 1/14/2008 1:47:35 PM | show profile >>only losers complain that race is holding them back from getting the job they want. Minorities complaining that white people are racists, white people complaining that reverse discrimination is holding them back.... makes no difference, 9 times out of 10, the complainer is a loser. << I have a black Republican first-gen Haitian friend who complains all the time about lazy African-Americans. In fact, often black immigrants say if they had half the opportunities African Americans have had since the end of segregation they'd be wealthy -- I guess that comes from people who emigrate from real poverty and living in lawless Third World shit-holes -- not the poverty where you can afford to feed your kids at McDonald's three nights a week. I'm only saying that because race is a really bad benchmark for anything. I feel uncomfortable saying "African-American" because then what do I call people who immigrated from Africa? African African-Americans? |
