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Topic: Copy Editors: Agreement question
| Author | Message |
| leprechaunsy | Posted – 1/11/2008 11:53:17 AM | show profile Agreement Q: "What percentage of mammal species is/are endangered?" Any help? |
| Cyrus | Posted – 1/11/2008 12:01:23 PM | show profile This may unleash wrath, but I mean this with honesty and sincerity and no ill will. If that truly is a question they're wanting you to answer, it's a pretty basic one and a situation you'll be confronted with often as a copy editor. If that kind of a question is a difficult one for you, that may not end up being the job for you. ------ Cyrus Afzali Astoria Communications www.astoriacomm.com |
| Cyrus | Posted – 1/11/2008 12:02:56 PM | show profile OK, terribly sorry here. I had your thread confused with TheStreet.com thread earlier and thought that was a copy editing test question. At any rate, the answer to your question is "is." Agreement should go with percentage and not the object of the prepositional phrase. Apologies again, Cyrus |
| Mag Girl | Posted – 1/11/2008 12:10:20 PM | show profile agree with Cyrus- "is" is correct here. |
| leprechaunsy | Posted – 1/11/2008 12:17:26 PM | show profile No offense taken. But I should point out that when I post questions here, it's often because there's a disagreement in my office?not because I don't have a definite opinion on this. |
| leprechaunsy | Posted – 1/11/2008 12:19:42 PM | show profile So it would not follow the same agreement rules as "percent," which can take the plural or singular depending on meaning? |
| Mag Girl | Posted – 1/11/2008 12:45:02 PM | show profile oh wait- checking AP style, it actually should use "are." percent One word. It takes a singular verb when standing alone or when a singular word follows an of construction: The teacher said 60 percent was a failing grade. He said 50 percent of the membership was there. It takes a plural verb when a plural word follows an of construction: He said 50 percent of the members were there. Use figures for percent and percentages: 1 percent, 2.5 percent (use decimals, not fractions), 10 percent, 4 percentage points. For a range, 12-15 percent, or between 12 and 15 percent. For amounts less than 1 percent, precede the decimal with a zero: The cost of living rose 0.6 percent. |
| Stanley_Milgram | Posted – 1/11/2008 9:46:30 PM | show profile does that mean Cyrus is/are looking for another job? Perhaps a waiter gig? A very high percentage of them is/are making more money than copyeditors anyway. And, in the more chi-chi restaurants around town, arrogance is/are actually considered a plus. |
| InsomniacNOT | Posted – 1/11/2008 11:05:00 PM | show profile There is no hard and fast answer to this. Many books will tell you to decide case by case and based on ear. AP's style is just that -- its style. They've made a choice and stick with it to be consistent -- not necessarily because the other choice is wrong. D\Cyrus can keep his day job but should probably loosen up. |
| chucho | Posted – 1/12/2008 11:28:33 AM | show profile AP Style might be "just a style" but in this case it does make a lot of sense because "percent" is an ambiguous noun when it comes to being singular or plural. Think of it this way: There is not such thing as "a percent". It's "a percentage". |
| InsomniacNOT | Posted – 1/12/2008 11:40:09 AM | show profile Yes, I like AP's styke decision too but that doesn't make Cyrus wrong. |
| Marie | Posted – 1/12/2008 3:16:05 PM | show profile Parts of AP are "just style," and Chicago or MLA or Words Into Type might tell you something different, such as whether to hyphenate something, whether to cap something, whether to spell out a state. Those are style issues. But grammar is not discretionary, unless you're doing experimental writing. The question posed here is one of grammar, not style, and I would follow AP, or another reputable grammar book on this. AP is a mix of style and grammar, and you need to distinguish between them. |
| InsomniacNOT | Posted – 1/12/2008 4:56:01 PM | show profile This is actually a collective noun issue -- over which the grammarians are divided. Now, I'll grant you that in the case of percentage, AP's solution is by far the best one and Cyrus' sounds awkward. However, in the case of other collective nouns, this is not necessrily the case -- and you'll often find one grammarian shouting "singular" at another screaming "plural." Not all grammar issues are tidily resolved. Just as there are style arguments, there are also grammar arguments over contentious points. |
| sashienichols | Posted – 1/12/2008 8:31:55 PM | show profile Not really. The argurment on collectives breaks down to whether the emphasis in the thing in question is on the whole or on the individual components. That determines whetherit i's singular or plural. And the idea that an issue like this is just a matter of style is completely misguided. And percentage is not a collective in the strict sense. |
| Mr. Biggles | Posted – 1/14/2008 11:46:00 AM | show profile >But grammar is not discretionary, unless you're doing experimental writing. Or unless you're one of the bilious linguists who post at Language Log. :) One of their resident curmudgeons once posted a screed attacking the "that/which" distinction so savagely that you thought his head might explode. (They *haaaaate* copy editors over there, by the way.) |
| leprechaunsy | Posted – 1/14/2008 12:44:56 PM | show profile The last few comments are interesting and right on the mark. This is grammar, whether controversial or not. But what's the answer? |
| Mr. Biggles | Posted – 1/14/2008 2:40:32 PM | show profile The easy answer is "is endangered" since "percentage" is, strictly speaking, a singular noun. You *could* make a case for a plural verb, but I like the advice of Bill Walsh (theslot. blogspot.com), which is to go with whatever keeps you from looking stupid to the majority of your readers. |
| Marie | Posted – 1/14/2008 3:25:41 PM | show profile That's great, and what I tried to say. This is one area where I say, stick to the rules, do what the book says (I don't give that advice in any other area), so that you don't look stupid. |
| leprechaunsy | Posted – 1/14/2008 3:52:16 PM | show profile So would you also argue that the following is correct: What percentage of women is voting for Clinton? That doesn't sound right to me. And from NYT: "Ancestry tests tell customers what percentage of their genes are from Asia, Europe, Africa and the Americas." |
| Marie | Posted – 1/14/2008 5:16:35 PM | show profile No. I would follow AP and every other grammar source--don't have time to recopy the whole thing here, but it says basically that the verb agrees with the noun following the "of" construction. It's very clear. Sixty percent of the membership was there; fifty percent of the members were there. It's very simple and is not a point of style. That's what you do. |
| leprechaunsy | Posted – 1/14/2008 5:50:05 PM | show profile Thanks, Marie. |
