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Topic: Serious questions about a MFA in Creative Writing
| Author | Message |
| paulie_c | Posted – 2/22/2008 5:08:16 PM | show profile Thanks for the replies, everyone. I truly appreciate it. The consensus seems to be that an MFA in Creative Writing is basically a waste of money. What about the opinion of going to J-school? Someone here mentioned that it doesn't have much worth unless I plan on becoming a professor (which I don't). Are the opinions about the MFA pretty much the same for J-school? |
| foodlit | Posted – 2/23/2008 10:26:52 AM | show profile What about J-school appeals to you? Why would you consider going? I'm no expert, but I would think unless you have a burning passion to work in journalism, it would be a waste of time and money....and even then, do you really need J-school to get a good job in journalism? I don't know, but I didn't have any trouble getting a job as a reporter when I graduated with a B.S. degree...that lasted about a year, as I couldn't afford to keep the job with all my students loans and other bills. It is not a lucrative profession...another thing to consider if you plan to spend a fortune on J-school, though if you're not the one paying for it, that's different. That's actually a big point here. Will you be the one to pay for an MFA or J-school degree, or will someone else be footing the bill? If you're in a position to go to school for free, then why not do it? Especially as it sounds like you are unsure of exactly what you want to do. Good luck! pam |
| candylilacs | Posted – 2/23/2008 12:03:47 PM | show profile I don't think everyone said it was a waste of money. What you're not hearing is: There's a substantial amount of debt with graduate school. If you're not in the position to take on another $25,000 to $100,000 of debt (and who is?) or if you're not really, really passionate about it, take some time to work and write. Grad school will still be there in 1, 2 or 5 years. What some people are sensing is that perhaps you may be grasping for reasons to lengthen this "crossroads" in your life rather than taking a direction. Grad school can be a direction, but you have to be sure you want to spend two years and thousands of dollars to get that degree. ------ http://www.mswritesguide.blogspot.com |
| Village Gal | Posted – 2/23/2008 4:56:25 PM | show profile Paulie, You got some very thoughful replies. Read them carefully. I agree with the above poster. No one said an advanced degree is a waste of money. It's not that cut dry. I have an MA. What people are picking up is that you sound adrift and grad school is a very expensive way of trying to find yourself. I worked full time and went to grad school at night at night. Good luck with whatever you decide. You might want to try therapy or a life coach, won't cost 20 grand. |
| xxxxx | Posted – 2/23/2008 9:29:19 PM | show profile how old are you? I'm asking not to be ageist, but because it seemed to me that the people who got the most out of my MFA program, myself included, were at least 8 years out of college and had been working for a while, trying to fit in the writing and had a little more of a sense of why we were there and really appreciated the time to write. The people who showed up at an MFA program hoping it would make them writers, on the other hand, were disappointed, because it doesn't work that way. The networking is great, not because you meet agents/writers/editors, but because you meet like-minded writers. I graduated ages ago and still exchange work with several people I met in workshops. It was something I weighed for a long time before going (again, most of the people who really enjoyed seemed to have done the same), and I took a few individual workshops, as other people are recommending, before I applied to be sure I liked being in a workshop before I shelled out the money for a degree. Also, I'd point out that, contrary to some of the above posts, almost every published novelist under a certain age in the U.S. today has an MFA (I said almost, so please don't list for me the ones who don't). And the idea that everyone who comes out of an MFA program writes the same way is ridiculous for that very reason. |
| stinking prague | Posted – 2/24/2008 1:54:26 PM | show profile My Two Centavos Its not that I think MFA programs are a complete waste of money, its just a very questionable bang for an awful lot of bucks. someone earlier made a good point of having to go for a high paying job afterwards. Yes, its good to have an opportunity to write and work on yer fricken novel. its good to have people criticquing it, probably very good. But the teachers sound pretty questionable, I imagine too many of them have already shot their wads and are there mainly for the pussy I just spent altogether too many years writing my fricken novel without anyone mentoring me, or networking for squat. I didn't get any critiquing from anyone other than my wife. In the end I got an agent and sold my second book after gawd only knows how many drafts and rewrites. I don't think the MFA process woulda taken me very far. I certainly don;t know how to write like raymond carver, but then as we're now learning, neither did raymond carver. the process I went through was long and brutal. but I strongly doubt that an MFA program would have made it any different. people talk about how various great contemporary writers; Chabon, TC Boyle et al were in MFA programs. yeah, but you know, when Chabon was an MFA student, the internet didn't exist. there were also only a tenth as many MFA programs then. Remember, Universities have MFA programs because, like MBA programs they are profit centers. But unlike MBAs, no one is judging them on results. just my choleric opinion |
| neugirl | Posted – 2/27/2008 1:25:04 PM | show profile Its been interesting reading the responses to this topic because I actually have been trying to figure out whether or not to get my MA in Creative Writing. But reality sets in and I realize I'm still paying of my school loans and since jobs in publishing tend not pay very well, I've been forced to work in finance so that I can at least pay my bills and support myself. Whatever time I have I use writing. I'm actually working on a novel right now. So I think going to Grad school is something I'm not too sure is necessary for me right now. I simply can't afford to get deeper in to debt. |
| dayjobluvah | Posted – 2/27/2008 6:00:49 PM | show profile Assuming you haven't taken creative writing classes ever, I'd suggest looking at syllabi online to give you an idea of the overall structure of MFA programs. Picture yourself in the workshop environment. Would you be shy about sharing your work? Are you sensitive to criticism? Do you think feedback would encourage or stifle your creativity? Also, consider how much of your "writing" time you'd want to spend reading and critiquing the work of your classmates. If what you want is feedback, there are more affordable non-MFA routes to go, like local and online classes. Research professors. If possible, read what they've published. If you don't admire what they've written, it's unlikely you'd take their feedback very seriously. |
| catlondon | Posted – 2/27/2008 6:24:14 PM | show profile One thing no one has mentioned is getting an assistantship. I got my MA (not MFA) in Lit and Creative Writing (an important distinction is that an MFA is considered a terminal degree while an MA is not) and I had an assistantship with the university that covered my tuition and paid me a small stipend. Yes, I did take out loans to help out, but the cost to me for two years was under $15,000. People buy cars that cost 3 x that. Call the department and ask how you can apply for an assistantship. The advice I got was to go to a school where you could work with a writer you admired, which I did. While I got to work with Big Name Writer and can now throw that name around, it was small name writer who was a truly a wonderful teacher and whose influence on me has been long-lasting. |
| catlondon | Posted – 2/27/2008 6:47:40 PM | show profile "But unlike MBAs, no one is judging them on results." I don't think enough people are judging MBAs on results. If they were, maybe we wouldn't have had the .com bust, the mortgage meltdown, and the current deficit (Bush has an MBA, you know). The best business leaders don't have MBAs--the Google Boys, Hewlett & Packard founders, Ben and Jerry, the guy who began/owns Costco, etc. Howard Schultz was just brought back to run Starbucks. He doesn't have an MBA. Most Pulitzer Prize winners in last decade or so have MFAs. This is not to say that you have to have an MFA to be great writer, just that the MBA correlation as an argument could be stronger. |
| danielleb75 | Posted – 2/28/2008 2:40:28 PM | show profile MFA programs I'm a little late to the party here, but I'd like to offer some information. MFA degrees tend to be in the love/hate arena in life: people seem to either think they're wonderful or a complete waste of time. I'm finishing my MFA at The New School and I will tell you what it's done for me. 1. I've worked with some wonderful, wonderful writers. 2. I've got really good workshop feedback. I'd done workshops pre-MFA, and I must say that the professionalism and gravitas is at a different level in my MFA program. 3. There tends to be a higher level of ability in MFA. Again, based on personal experience. But, essentially, anyone in a program has already made the cut by being accepted (what that cut is, exactly, is another question). 4. Agents follow MFA programs. They will tell you this. They also consider it a "cut"?you've sort of been pre-approved. 5. I got an intern position at a magazine, even though I had absolutely no experience in any journalism of any kind, because they were impressed that I was in a reputable MFA program. Now I write freelance. 6. An MFA is a shortcut, in a way. I think I could have improved on my writing by myself, but it would've taken longer. Before I entered the program, I asked a well-known writer, who I knew hadn't done an MFA, for his advice. He told me that it would take me 2 years to learn what he took him 8. 7. If you don't want to write literary fiction, don't do an MFA. If you can write good genre fiction, do it on your own, with a trusted editor, and you might make a ton of money. 8. I need deadlines. MFAs give you deadlines. 9. You can work?definately part-time, full-time if you're energetic?while you pursue this degree. You certainly don't need to go into massive debt. Look at state schools (CUNY-Hunter is an excellent program if you're in the area), programs that offer fellowships/assistantships, or low-residency programs. Work on your portfolio above all else. That's your ticket in. The rest of the application package is just extra stuff. If you want to do it (and it sounds like you do), do it. Just find the way that works for your situation and your needs as a writer. It ain't that difficult. |
