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Topic: "Smart Money" EIC -- avoid!
| Author | Message |
| ingride | Posted – 3/14/2008 5:15:53 PM | show profile Sent a pitch to Smart Money EIC John Dahl on a Sunday and heard back an hour later! By Monday we had exchanged 3-4 rounds of e-mails, which now included a second pitch. A week later, having heard nothing, I e-mailed him and asked if he had decided against these articles so I could pitch them elsewhere. No answer. Weeks later, I sent him the same question again and again did not have the courtesy of a reply. In my last e-mail to him I told him what I thought of his manners. When an EIC is that haughty, and obnoxious, he sends a message to his staff that they can do the same. So, don't waste yr time pitching Smart Money, or, if you do, send your pitch to other mags simultaneously. Anyone want to add to my editors-to-avoid list? |
| snuffleupagus | Posted – 3/14/2008 5:24:09 PM | show profile Don't burn your bridges. Dahl gave you a chance, quickly worked with you on an idea, and ultimately decided to let it pass. He should have given you the courtesy of saying "no," but, then again, I don't know what the tone of the exchange was during those 3-4 rounds of emails. Sounds to me like Dahl is a great person to pitch again. |
| seeattleme | Posted – 3/14/2008 7:12:59 PM | show profile bullshit. burn em. Smart money is on the way out. First Money, then Smart MOney. Not to mention doesn't his staff have like 75% trunover on an annual basis? Money editors and writers. Ha ha ha ha ha. Look at this country. Obviously THEY know what they've been doing all these years. He's probably too busy loooking for a spot as the new Today show Financial editor that he can't return your requests. (Unless he past it to a senior editor--still should have told you so). |
| seeattleme | Posted – 3/14/2008 7:16:02 PM | show profile By the way, there's a story on the MB board today about how business journalists have blown their beat (I.e. the current state of the economy). The writer cites four non-mainstream resouces/journalists who got everything right when everyone else was writing about buying $3,000 TVs for their newly renovated basements in the house they got from the divorce from the Microsoft milionaire. One of them, Elizabeth Warren at harvard, has written 100 per cent the opposite of everything you've been hearing from these personal finance morons. Check it out. Maybe there's a job at one of these outlets for you. |
| reporterwriter | Posted – 3/15/2008 1:29:39 PM | show profile It truly pays to pick up the phone and call. Then you can find out whether the EIC is on vacation, at a corporate retreat, in the hospital, still employed there, etc. E-mail is handy, but it's also an unreliable method of communication. E-mail gets buried or sorted to "junk," even when you've already exchanged e-mail with a person. Servers eat e-mail or delay it; recently I heard about someone who received an e-mail from an editor dated more than a year earlier. Call. It saves you from assuming that the reason an editor didn't reply to your e-mail is he's haughty and obnoxious, and it saves you from broadcasting publicly what you don't know for sure. |
| reporterwriter | Posted – 3/15/2008 1:33:54 PM | show profile >>snuffleupagus wrote: "Sounds to me like Dahl is a great person to pitch again."<< Yes, for the rest of us, but probably not for ingride: >>ingride wrote: "In my last e-mail to him I told him what I thought of his manners."<< That bridge burned before it ever was built! |
| seeattleme | Posted – 3/15/2008 1:53:14 PM | show profile ingride, watch for the story to show up in a future issue of SM. I'd say, July or August. |
| ingride | Posted – 3/16/2008 8:51:02 AM | show profile "Smart Money" EIC -- Avoid! Actually, in his very first e-mail to me, John Dahl, Smart Money EIC, copied both his executive editor and his deputy managing editor and they were copied on subsequent e-mails. No, they did not all go on vacation simultaneously, or to the hospital. It's like I said, if the EIC is obnoxious to freelancers, it gives staff the right to do the same. Not surprising, this is reflected on Smart Money's contents page; last month an article about pomegranate juice, another article about "truffles and bonbons," another that thinks $100 oil is about "inflation" fer chrissake. A piece about privacy, that looked like it might be interesting, turned out to be a one-pager without ANY contact info for the actions they were suggesting. Poop. |
| ISR | Posted – 3/16/2008 10:33:44 AM | show profile A similar thing happened to me with Inc. magazine. Loved the pitch, generously responded about the idea, then no response after 3 follow-ups. Just too busy or didn't care I guess. |
| reporterwriter | Posted – 3/16/2008 1:54:42 PM | show profile ingride, It's becoming hard to sort out exactly what your issue is with Smart Money. There seem to be many, and some of them are inflated. First, just because an EIC cc'd two other editors on his e-mail to you, it doesn't mean those other editors are going to leap the chain of command and approve your idea, or even begin communicating with you. Those editors may have been cc'd simply as a means for the EIC to solicit their input to *him*. Or, if your exchange became heated, it may have been sent to them as a heads-up. Second, an editor's choice of stories does not reflect his character. Instead, it reflects the editorial mission of the publication, which is determined in an ivory tower, not the EIC's office. The EIC carries out that mission. Freelancers cannot control or change the mission, no matter how much they disagree with it, as it expresses the publication's economic vision for itself, including who its readers will be. If SM runs stories that, to you, look hoity-toity, chances are it's aiming for a particular readership that's unlike you. It doesn't mean you can't write for the magazine -- you can, but you have to do it from the perspective of the readership SM wants to capture. What you cannot do, no matter how much you tell the EIC what you think, is change a magazine's editorial direction. And this, I have a hunch, is where things went south for you with Smart Money. |
| reporterwriter | Posted – 3/16/2008 2:07:00 PM | show profile P.S. The smart and experienced thing to do when weeks pass without a reply is to take that as a "no" and shop the idea elsewhere without getting angry over it or seeking reprisal. If the EIC gets back to you someday and wants the story, you need only to tell him you sold it elsewhere. He'll understand that you're in business, and you won't be blackballed for it. |
| Marie | Posted – 3/16/2008 3:31:50 PM | show profile Those are perfect responses, BBelinda. You can never lose your cool with a publication. If you don't hear back, pick up the phone, and leave a voice mail. Then a week later leave another one, saying that since you haven't haven't heard anything, you assume he's no longer interested despite his initial interest, and you'll be shopping the idea elsewhere. Actually, you don't even have to say this much, but sometimes indicating, in a courteous, friendly, even tone that you'll be taking the idea elsewhere prompts a response. If the magazine decides later it wants the idea, it might get in touch with you, but will completely understand if your story is no longer available. The editor will also know that the next time you pitch, he/she should act faster. |
| seeattleme | Posted – 3/16/2008 4:47:19 PM | show profile Actually, most of the best writers I know--we're talking AMSE winners here and National Book Award finalists--consistently lose their cool with editors and often have longstanding feuds with a few. In the words of one great editor I worked with (AMSE seven-time winner, fourteen nominations over a twenty year career) said to his boss, "I like it when a writer gets oin my face about a story or gets emotional or supset about the editing or the lukewarm response. It shows me the writer cares about what he's doing. And that makes for a better story." Hacks follow seven minute manager advice. If you're in an editor's face every once in awhile, about things that matter (And I consider unprofessional conduct one of these matters) you are on the right track., historically. Of course, your reputation may be as a "difficult" writer" and you won't always get those assignments doing hack columns like the ones in magazines like Smart Money, Money, and now Fortune, SI and Glamour. Boo hoo. |
| sashienichols | Posted – 3/16/2008 5:12:26 PM | show profile if your goal is to place a story to an editor who doesn't know you, the histrionics will hardly work in your favor. Move on to another market, and leave the door open to pitch again to this other magazine. It's really not a big deal. I, too, get tired about the "don't burn bridges" crap (I think it turns people into timid wimps, and contributes to the terrible working arrangements in this field). But this writer had no previous relationship with this editor and magazine, and histrionics and reprimanding someone's manners hardly seemed the smart way to go. |
| ingride | Posted – 3/16/2008 8:18:34 PM | show profile Smart Money EIC -- Avoid! Belinda, I have read your messages and they are lecturing and condescending, and by no means respond to the simple, brief, facts I presented. This is about good manners, that's all. Id est, I do not have "many" issues with the SM EIC, just this one; I did not expect the other editors cc'd on my correspondence to "leap" on anything and I never said or implied that; my exchange with the EIC never became "heated" and I never said or implied that; and your idea that EICs do not control their books, but an "ivory tower" does, is ignorant, and I will not respond to your future posts (I see you have more than 200, getalife) because you sound like a kid. sashienichols; If you find "histrionics" in my post, I suggest you look up the meaning of that word. Words count when you write for living. qunester: thanks, yr not a wimp. Hope yr doing well as a freelance. All I was writing about was Decent Manners toward freelancers, SM EIC has none; his contents page is mediocre. Coincidence? |
| rhino writer | Posted – 3/16/2008 8:59:28 PM | show profile Yes. |
| Marie | Posted – 3/16/2008 9:24:36 PM | show profile It's mediocre in your opinion. And if it's so mediocre, why did you pitch that magazine in the first place? |
| reporterwriter | Posted – 3/16/2008 10:43:21 PM | show profile ingride, I can understand perfectly now why Smart Money chose not to reply to you. |
| reporterwriter | Posted – 3/16/2008 10:53:29 PM | show profile P.S. Many thanks for the compliment that I sound like a kid. Most people say I sound like an old curmudgeon, since I've written and edited for magazines and newspapers since 1977. Your day brightener is much appreciated! |
| seeattleme | Posted – 3/16/2008 11:34:56 PM | show profile Smart Money did not respond (profesionally)because they cannot afford to take chanes with/hire freelancers. They use staff writers and steal ideas from freelancers--as do MOST Hearst publications these days. Sorry but true. Do the research. You not buddy buddy or galpals or cronies with a Hearst editor? Your idea will be snagged and assigned to someone who is. Once this writer makes a name for his herself, she'll get responses from editors from Smart Maney and others. Kiss assy, bullshit, such and such never happened, right? responses. I know of what I speak. One NY Times mag article --well, three actually--and every EIC who'd dissed me in the book was contacting me to "talk about assignments". Bullshit. In this market, magaines editors will act arrogant etc for a bit--especially the "boomer " editors (editors about age 43 and up). They'll lay off support and management staffa s long as they can. Eventually they'll get fired and be repleced by someone half their age. Watch with Smart Money--this will happen. It'll fold or they'll hire some Wired editor. Boomers, your careers will go "boom" if you don't learn to treat those of the younger generations with professionalism and respect. Watch and learn. And it's about time freelaners out there stopped putting up with rude, disrespectful and unprofessional behavioir. Just because I don't have my nose up some editor's ass 24/7 (smells bad, you know) doesn't mean I won't get work, and one day I won't watch you get your old ass fired while I climb. It's the history of this business. Research it and you'll see. Get out of the way if you can't lend a hand, for the times they are a changin. And print is DYING>. Partly as a result of dinasours who, in their arrogant ways and with their six figure paychecks they've grown fat on, refuse to realize that they owe younger, creative individuals professional attention and respect. |
| PluckyPane | Posted – 3/17/2008 10:40:47 AM | show profile ingride, how long have you been freelancing? belinda was giving you good advice, but you fire back with your nasty attitude. trend? it's amazing to me to read these posts from freelancers who can't take no for an answer then come on boards and blast the pub. none of us know what happened in those few initial emails. you could have burned your bridges then. regardless, when you don't hear back from an editor who was initially interested, you call once, then the second call is to say that you are shopping the story elsewhere. how difficult is that? attention: it's your job to sell yourself. it's your job to always maintain professionalism, no matter how much of a dick the editor is being. lecturing someone about their manners is pathetic. i'd never call/email your ass, courtesy or not, ever again. plus i'd tell every person i know in the pub world that you're a friggin troublemaker. these little hit lists you freelancers have on here...well, publishers and editors have them too. |
| recovering_jersey_girl | Posted – 3/17/2008 12:05:23 PM | show profile I've also had correspondence w/ John and I haven't gotten an assignment (yet) either. But I've found him to be both courteous and professional...basically, I sent him a story pitch and he told me the timing wasn't right, but to get back in touch with him in several months if I hadn't sold it elsewhere by then. My takeaway: 1. he responded promptly, 2. explained why he wasn't biting w/r/t my idea and 3. both told me when a better time might be but acknowledged that the story might have been shopped/bought by someone else by then. |
| seeattleme | Posted – 3/17/2008 3:17:05 PM | show profile two tone, he never gave her a "no". he said yes, ehtusiastically, several times, then ignored her (him). It astounds me that so many freelancers on this board excuse this kind of behavior from editors. They have staff jobs, insurance, benefits, etc. They have office computers and assistants. Is it really too much to ask for an editor to pick up the phone or send an email , after initially expressing interest, saying," thanks but not a good time now. Definitely try me again!" Reread this email. He did speak to the poster, he did express interest, then blew her off. Probably assigned the story to staffer because MAGAZINES HAVE NO MONEY THESE DAYS> ESPECIALLY MONEY MAGAZINES. Read the reports from Folio, etc. I agree there's no reason to get insulting or nasty about it but you can and should confront an editor when he /she treats you unprofessionally: That includes ignoring queries (especially after expressing interest and expecting you to "assume" it's no longer being considered) and skooching ideas and re-assigning them to staffers and power lunch pen (Penn) pals. Freelancers need not tolerate this kind of behavior from editors anymore--who are sipping cocktails on board the Titanic these days. |
| noname1234 | Posted – 3/17/2008 3:28:38 PM | show profile We heard one side of the story here, and we heard from another poster who had a fine experience with this EIC. So I for one am not ready to assume that the editors at this pub are sitting around drinking cocktails, lolling over their health benefits and toying with freelancers for their own jollies. If you've chosen to run your own freelance writing business, you treat it as just that -- a business. You don't "tell people off" for their manners and post anonymous "warnings" about them on message boards. You behave professionally and you don't take things personally -- and if you don't like working with someone, you simply don't do business again with that person. Same way that if an editor didn't like a working with a freelancer, they would not do business with them again. Simple. |
| seeattleme | Posted – 3/17/2008 3:31:30 PM | show profile The second side of the story will be the poster's idea appearing in a late summer /early fall issue of Smart MOney. Unless the poster gets off her butt and submits the idea somewhere else. Then you'll see it in two money magazines right around the same time. No one is telling this poster to scold an editor about manners. But confronting an editor about unprofessional behavior is done--and done OFTEN--by the best writers in this business. All. The. Time. |
