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Topic: "Smart Money" EIC -- avoid!
| Author | Message |
| seeattleme | Posted – 3/17/2008 3:35:31 PM | show profile Oh and by the way i doubt it's any accident that REcov Jersey girl has some personal connection to "John" as she calls hime (not Mr. Dahl, as most freelancers would who have only dealt with an EIC one time). If there is a connection, personal or closely professional --a mutual editor, paerhaps, friend, whatever--of course the EIC will be polite and professional. That's my whole point. It's the "unknowns" who get dissed. Duh. Seriously. Duh duh duh. That doesn't excuse the behavior. I'd love to hear the other side. Julia Kagan came on baord with her response. Where's "john"s? |
| Mirage | Posted – 3/17/2008 3:46:08 PM | show profile Anyone else think "qunester" sounds just like "granitegirl"? |
| Mirage | Posted – 3/17/2008 3:46:11 PM | show profile Anyone else think "qunester" sounds just like "granitegirl"? |
| rulebook | Posted – 3/17/2008 4:02:53 PM | show profile Anyone else think "qunester" sounds just like "granitegirl"? Yes. I'd bet a large sum of money on it. |
| seeattleme | Posted – 3/17/2008 4:15:28 PM | show profile So what? Um, is there some kind of law against changing a screen name? especially when you work on a new computer and can't remember your password or which email you used for the first one? Or you just friggin want a change? Oooooo, Big mystery solved. And how weird is it that you even take the time to make that connection? Seriously. I don't follow posters around on this board. what kind of people do? Tell me, I'd like to know. |
| seeattleme | Posted – 3/17/2008 4:16:48 PM | show profile wow and Mirage , you WERE in a hurry to post that. So much so you pressed the button twice. Bam bam. Send! Send ! Send! POst! POst! POst! to quote my teenage neice, What. Ever. |
| seeattleme | Posted – 3/17/2008 4:19:08 PM | show profile oh and to make it easier on you to "track' other posters who change their screen names down (on lunch breaks, I'm hoping) just go to another post. The screen name changes all the posts you've made if you change your screen name and not the account. It's pretty easy to figure out. I don't bother, but if that ticks your timeclock, than go for it. |
| noname1234 | Posted – 3/17/2008 4:33:07 PM | show profile granitegirl, you've posted many, many -- many -- rage-filled posts about your disgust with most most magazine editors. You know what? If you loathe most of the people you have to do business with, maybe you shouldn't be in this business! But if someone has chosen to start up a freelancing business in which their livelihood is dependent on these magazine editors, they have to learn to deal with it calmly and professionally, if they want to make a living income in this very hard line of work. |
| Mirage | Posted – 3/17/2008 4:44:18 PM | show profile Wow. Just making an observation, Q or GG or whatever your name is this week. Sorry it caused you so much angst. |
| rulebook | Posted – 3/17/2008 4:55:14 PM | show profile wow and Mirage , you WERE in a hurry to post that. So much so you pressed the button twice. Bam bam. Send! Send ! Send! POst! POst! POst! i·ro·ny 1. the use of words to convey a meaning that is the opposite of its literal meaning: the irony of her reply, ?How nice!? when I said I had to work all weekend. 2. Literature. a. a technique of indicating, as through character or plot development, an intention or attitude opposite to that which is actually or ostensibly stated. b. (esp. in contemporary writing) a manner of organizing a work so as to give full expression to contradictory or complementary impulses, attitudes, etc., esp. as a means of indicating detachment from a subject, theme, or emotion. 3. Socratic irony. 4. dramatic irony. 5. an outcome of events contrary to what was, or might have been, expected. 6. the incongruity of this. 7. an objectively sardonic style of speech or writing. 8. an objectively or humorously sardonic utterance, disposition, quality, etc. |
| PluckyPane | Posted – 3/17/2008 5:20:42 PM | show profile >>>two tone, he never gave her a "no". he said yes, ehtusiastically, several times, then ignored her (him). It astounds me that so many freelancers on this board excuse this kind of behavior from editors. They have staff jobs, insurance, benefits, etc. They have office computers and assistants. Is it really too much to ask for an editor to pick up the phone or send an email , after initially expressing interest, saying," thanks but not a good time now. Definitely try me again!"<<< i'm sick to death of hearing you rant on about editors being jerks with their so called cushy offices and benefits and steady paychecks and assistants. what year are you living in? bitching about the top heavy management and baby boomers? just cause they get a more steady paycheck does not mean they don't freak out about their income like you. maybe more cause the boss is always in their face. if you hate that you have to work so hard as a freelancer, then get a frickin job with benefits. my god. you must wait outside the county administration office every day and throw eggs at state workers who have full benefits and a pension....all because you don't have the same thing. so take your idea and sell it to another publication. and quit your goddamned bitching about benefits and steady paychecks and obnoxious editors with assistants. you should wake up in the real world. i am so done listening to you and your 35 personalities. |
| recovering_jersey_girl | Posted – 3/17/2008 6:23:41 PM | show profile Nope, no personal connection to the EIC. I was just using the same verbiage as the OP, who referred to him by his first name. |
| TheSecondShift | Posted – 3/18/2008 2:13:48 AM | show profile And then there's just courtesy Without getting into new screennames and the like, the issue about eds not being responsible about communicating remains a problem for many writers. Y I have chosen the freelance biz for many reasons and know there are downfalls to it. But I know there's a way to make it a win-win sitch for all involved. I appreciate when an ed passes on a query right away--then I'm free to submit elsewhere. But when an ed gives me the idea that they are interested, cc's another ed and the like, it gives me reason to believe something *may materialize. So I hold off on querying that idea elsewhere. I am taking your initial interest and RESPECTING that. If you've changed your mind, give me that same RESPECT and tell me so. Because every day I don't resubmit that idea is a day I'm losing a sale. And that's how I look at it. I have corresponded with eds from the biggest national pubs out there who manage to find the time to let you know if your story is happening or not. If these eds can do it, anyone can. When I query an ed and they engage me with more than a "maybe", you've given me hope, and I'll hold off pitching to others. But this is my livelihood and you need to either crap or get off the pot, as they say. So make a decision either way so we can *all move on. Don't dangle assignments in my face. It's very insensitive, IMO. And why can't people respond? There's just no excuse for not following up anymore. Everyone's on email all the time--no matter what we pretend. We are all busy (yes, writers too!) and editors don't get to claim being more overwhelmed. And if email isn't the thing, everyone eventually checks their voicemail. So eds, pick a medium and respond to potential articles that you've responded to either way for goodness sake. Is it really so much to ask? I get so annoyed with the "don't burn your bridges with editors" stance. Hell, editors need that same warning--stop treating writers like crap. Otherwise, they end up writing for your competition who appreciates the ideas coming in. Many editors need writers and vice versa. Let's stop pretending otherwise. |
| InsomniacNOT | Posted – 3/18/2008 8:54:49 AM | show profile I agree it would be better to reply, but queries are unsolicited and replies can be time-consuming -- yes, one minute here and one minute there adds up -- so writers need to accept that this is the reality and it's unlikely to change. What you can do, though, is follow up all your queries until you know whether there is any interest or not. When I was an editor, it's actually the "maybe" queries that tended to hang around the longest while I pondered them. A little polite pushing sometimes persuaded me to go for it or offer a promising writer another assignment. On the other hand, any writer who that acted like the OP was someone I would run away from really fast. Who needs a boundary-crossing freelancer on top of everything else? As for being sensitive about this, forget it. Adopt a "he's just not that into you" approach and move on to the editors who will appreciate you. |
| TheSecondShift | Posted – 3/18/2008 11:43:07 AM | show profile Oh yeah, I would never go on an out and out tirade with an editor. I'd just keep it in my mind not to bother with them again. If they can't respect my livelihood, then it's not someone I want to deal with. Part of being an editor is dealing with queries--they know this when they sign up for the job--just like signing up to be freelance means accepting that some eds are not going to respond. It's all hazards of the job. Doesn't make it less frustrating at times though. |
| reporterwriter | Posted – 3/18/2008 1:08:05 PM | show profile >>Part of being an editor is dealing with queries--they know this when they sign up for the job<< Really? I have yet to see any editor's job description that includes handling queries. Most often, an editor either volunteers or gets drafted to handle them. It's not a plum assignment, and contrary to many freelancers' impression, it's not essential to a publication's operation. |
| TheSecondShift | Posted – 3/19/2008 11:00:06 PM | show profile I think it's well known that handling queries is a given. It has been at every single pub I've worked for. Now, whether or not freelancers are necessary to that pubs operation is something else entirely. If eds aren't responding to queries because they don't need writers, I still don't see anything wrong with sending out a form "We don't use freelance writers" letter. That way, that writer won't contact you again! |
| snappiness | Posted – 3/19/2008 11:14:22 PM | show profile Wow, this thread gives me insight into why I'm getting so much work from a) business magazines and b) Hearst. I think there are definitely ways of communicating to editors that you'd like to be treated professionally, one of them is being professional yourself. My standard 2-3 week email is "If I don't hear from you by Friday I'll assume this pitch won't work for your publication," then move on without hard feelings. |
| seeattleme | Posted – 3/19/2008 11:38:14 PM | show profile Me personally? I would rather read rage-filled posts than seven minute manager bs slathered on boards by smiley faced no talent hacks. And that's not rage talking. That's posters like caitlin who readily admit that posters on this board "rarely write for the Big Three" i.e. NYer, Atlantic, Harpers. There are two types of writers on this board, and I apologize[sincerely] if my standards don't fall into the category of journalism others do. IE, for example, journalism is a profession. I see it as something higher. Many, like noname, perhaps do not. Yes, I FREELY admit I get upset when an editor treats me badly or takes advantage of my hard-working, idealistic nature that allows me to accept less then a buck per word because the story is great, needs to run, and the editor can't afford to pay me my word count fee. Yes, this has happened to me many times. NoName, mr "spewing rage" is directed at editors who do one of three things: 1. Take advantage of freelancers, i.e. my need to work and accept all working conditions regardless of the impossible deadlines requested, the endless time it takes to just assign a story (while I wait and am expected NOT to pitch it elsewhere , just sit tight and wait while my landlord bangs on the door) the endless revisions required, the extra work expected (photo shoot lineups, photo credits, addition research for captions, more material for art) Note: I do not minf doingthis work if asked , but I am often not asked, I am ordered to do it, and I'm not paid any extra for doing it. 2. Skooch my ideas and reassign them, 3. Write and edit for magazines that do not produce insightful copy but repetitive tripe, regurgitated subject matter, cliches. So yeah--a lot of editors fall into one of these three categories and no, I don't write for them anymore (and yes, my opinion is based on two decades of experience). Thank GOD I have risen above that. So when I see this happening to those who have NOT risen above it, by getting clips that ensure them professional behavior and fair treatment, yay, toots, it enrages me. Sorry if it doe not enrage you. Seriously. I am sorry for you. But I don't know who you are and I don't follow you around on this board, I'm pretty sure I have agreed with you once or twice, without even being aware of it. Cause this board ain't my life. It's just a board of information. And yes--as part of that information available, freely to me, I would like to hear the truth from other journalists. If it's rage, fine. I'll read it if I want to. If it's panic, or fear, or hurt feelings, or curiousity, I'll read it if I want to. I rarely even pay attention to who is posting what because I have a life. And a job. Why are you so invested in my posts, OR my screen name? Please. Get a life. Get a boyfriend. That's not rage talking, it's CONCERN. If you don't like my posts, don't read them. Simple and fair. Freedom of expression and all that. I have noticed many people on this board using more than one screen name, or switching, or trolling. I don't feel the need to call it out because really, who gives a fuck? I am not the only one who posts this "rage". Many have. You (noname, anyone else who applies) just pay special attention to it ecause I said something at one point that pissed you off. Probably because it was right. The original poster referred to John Dahl as John Dahhl, NOT john, recov jersey girl. It's fairly obvious from the post they have no personal connection, so if she referred to him as John in latter posts, it was obviously facetiously. The tone of your post is entirely different, but if you say you don't know him or have no cennection with him, fine, I believe you, I don't care. I know many mnay EICs and would not feel comfortable referring to any of them by first name. Well, maybe one, but I've known her since the early nineties. Again, OP, look for your story in the August or Sept issue of Smart MOney. Please let us know when (uh, I mean if) it runs. Editors on this board are upset because they know, deep down, that's EXACTLY what's happening here. |
| seeattleme | Posted – 3/19/2008 11:42:11 PM | show profile and BBelinda handling queries is the one JUSTIFIABLE reason editors have assistants. it's part of THEIR job description. Research it if you like. |
| seeattleme | Posted – 3/19/2008 11:55:26 PM | show profile oh. and here's a little tale about the "professionalism" of Hearst, since we're on the topic (I too have had my share of assignments from titles within this company, BTW). Back in the early ninties, an editor whod' just won a slew of ASMEs (National Magazine Awards) showed up for an interview for the EIC position of Esquire in --god forbid--JEANS! JEANS?! The brass was shocked. Rumors abounded. Everyone was laughing at this guy. Well this guy wound up editing the NY TImes magazine instead, now edits New York. He's got a slew of ASMEs, yet again, and his magazine is jumping off the newstands into everyone's eager arms. Esquire, this year? ONE nomination. One. You can bet the brass at Hearst is taking a long, hard, second look at Adam Moss these days. And I'll bet he could show up in a painted-on suit --or lettuce, noname--and get that job if he wanted it. AT the top of the top, where it all really counts, professionalism is a relative term. The best in this business know this. And that's why what they often tell you--the advice they give--is so infuriating, sounding bitter, pessimistic, and nonsensical. But do what I did when I was in my twenties and starting out: Listen to it and don't be so quick to be so anything else. "Positive". "Optomistic" . "Professional". These are all relative terms; especially in an industry that's facing much gloom and doom (magazines will fold in 2008, more than did in 2007 and 2006 combined). Don't take my word for it. Ask an expert. |
| noname1234 | Posted – 3/19/2008 11:56:26 PM | show profile Thank you for your "concern" about my personal life, quenster/whatever. Funny, I recall you mentioning to another poster that her attempts to "psychoanalyise" you by your insane rants makes her look "ignorant"; guess that rule doesn't apply to you. Oh wait, apparently because I actually can recollect specific posters by their screennames and catch on to their unique writing styles and tones makes me some kind of freak as well. I hope freelance writers take any of the "advice" you dole out here with a massive lump of salt -- I mean, for a self-professed highly successful writer, you have shown on these boards a real problem expressing yourself coherently using the written word. |
| mumbo jumbo | Posted – 3/20/2008 12:18:33 AM | show profile In defense of overworked editors: I put in 10 hour days, do not have an assistant who can handle my email, and never, ever, get on top of my email. I just finished production on an issue, which consumes every minute of my time for a week or so, and have over 100 unread email messages in my in-box, which I will hurry through in the next couple of days. Forgive me if I don't spend the time to craft a thoughful response to an unknown freelancer. And if some spin on your pitch shows up in my book within the next couple of months, don't assume that I stole your idea. Most of the time, several people pitch variations on the same topics within a short time period--these are usually pretty timely topics so that's reasonable. And of course, I'll give the assignment to the person I've worked with and know what to expect from. After all, who has the time to break in new writers? |
| reporterwriter | Posted – 3/20/2008 3:38:11 AM | show profile >>qunester wrote: "handling queries is the one JUSTIFIABLE reason editors have assistants. it's part of THEIR job description. Research it if you like."<< I suppose that's true, provided the editors have assistants. I don't know any who do, and that comes from first-hand knowledge, not research. |
| snappiness | Posted – 3/20/2008 9:51:55 AM | show profile The Hearst magazine I write for just got nominated for 3 Ellies. And the editors wear jeans. Maybe it's time to update an impression formed in the 1990s. I just started reading the BB on MB and I am really surprised by how many angry freelancers are venting here. And I'm not seeing anything unusual in these complaints. It's all part of the job. Maybe the members here are mostly newbies trying to break in and just not familiar with the freelancing life? Like all jobs, it has its challenges. You just have to figure out how to negotiate them gracefully. |
