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Topic: "Smart Money" EIC -- avoid!
| Author | Message |
| Marie | Posted – 3/23/2008 9:28:59 PM | show profile I think he's joking. You've changed your screen name, and he doesn't know who you are. There was a post a few years ago about using a press release. |
| bjoconnorfla | Posted – 3/24/2008 11:26:28 AM | show profile I was going to say that it was to imagine why you would have been flamed, BBelinda, but you've cleared that up for all of us. |
| bjoconnorfla | Posted – 3/24/2008 11:27:25 AM | show profile I was going to say that it was hard to imagine why you would have been flamed, BBelinda, but you've cleared that up for all of us. |
| reporterwriter | Posted – 3/24/2008 9:55:19 PM | show profile Because I didn't tolerate your belittling remark? Oh, well -- you throw crap at people, bj, you have to expect to get it thrown back at you. |
| ingride | Posted – 3/27/2008 5:33:18 PM | show profile "Smart Money" EIC -- avoid! It think that there are two different threads to this conversation. The one that I originally brought up has to do with the fact that I was in >conversation< with the Smart Money EIC and when he decided he was not interested in my pitch, decent manners required him to acknowledge my two inquiries -- weeks apart -- to confirm that he had lost interest. For his failure to do so there IS NO excuse. If I may repeat myself, that is haughty and obnoxious. The other thread here has had to do with making cold-call pitches to eds who do not respond, which is something different from that above. That too is bad manners, just not AS bad. I know top-of-the-masthead eds at, for example, the WSJ and Washington Post who always respond to cold-call pitches, usually in less than a week. There are many others, of course. Two things distinguish them from eds who do not respond. They have manners; they are organized. Let's please take a moment to consider here that editors are no busier than executives in other businesses and they all have the same choices to make: to treat people respectfully or be dismissive jerks; and to plan their work days to keep up with their work load or crab about how overwhelmed they are. One ed posting here was lamenting how he had "100 e-mails" in his inbox, in which case why was he spending his time on this bb? It's also abt attitude: Of those 100 e-mails, how many were spam, how many were cc's also requiring no action, how many would require no answer until next week, next month, &c? Of those remaining, how many were actually cold-call pitches which he would not bother himself to answer because he is "so busy"? I knew an ed once who was fired after 25 years as an EIC, same book all that time. He felt he was above responding to pitches. Well, he never got a staff job again and is spending the rest of his working life sending out pitches. How many have arrived on the desks of yesteryear's freelancers who he would not bother himself about in his glory days? Who was the clever person who first said, What goes around comes around"? Basically, if you have no manners, get a job where you don't deal with people. Likewise if your manners are reserved only for the people in the same room with you. |
| Grateful Deadline | Posted – 3/27/2008 7:31:32 PM | show profile ingride, One reality of the magazine world is that very few magazines *need* writers' pitches. The issues are planned a year, sometimes two years, in advance. There's no pressing reason for editors to respond to pitches in order to run a magazine, and they're under no obligation to help a writer run her business. *Your* need for a reply is *your need,* not the editor's, and at some point when you haven't received a reply, you simply pick up and move along to the next prospect -- you run your business, the editor runs his or her business, and the world turns. If this editor had wanted your story, he wouldn't have dropped the communication. In the back-and-forth, he may have been gauging how you'd develop it or how easy you'd be to work with. Silence isn't obnoxious; it's disengagement. Since you've already given him a piece of your mind, your very best bet is to let it go and take your idea elsewhere. |
| Jerose | Posted – 3/27/2008 8:39:13 PM | show profile This and the other "I hate editors" threads are eye opening. I've decided that I'm going to set up a polite rejection letter for all freelancers who attempt to query my publications, usually with a query that doesn't match my readership, to alert them that my publications' budgets are hurting and all stories are now handling by staff. It will be the truth, not an excuse,a nd everyone will be oh so happy. And the only thing I'll ask is not to be flamed on MB boards so that my competitors don't find out that I'm not doing well financially. I couldn't believe that real names and mag titles were published here. |
| caitlinkelly | Posted – 3/28/2008 12:57:44 PM | show profile emotions run high; so do expenses Sending a reply is a thoughtful, helpful choice. A quick and honest answer means no wasted time trying to sell to someone who isn't even buying. While outing an editor here by name isn't a great choice, it shouldn't surprise any editor that *some* freelancers end up at the end of their tether when editors can't even be bothered replying to them -- and I've been an assigning magazine editor. What editors might not know, or realize (or care) is that your single rejection/unreturned call or email can end up being the umpteenth of the week or month for even the most talented and experienced of writers. Which, unless that writer is just a foot-stamping diva (possible!), might mean your rejection feels like the last straw. I certainly don't envy editors pelted with hundreds of utterly inappropriate pitches -- which is why some of us writers seek assignments and minimize pitches -- but it's really not unimaginable the frustration/fear/anxiety/anger that can build up if what seems a pattern of being totally ignored is repeated endlessly. It really has a corrosive effect and seems to have little to do with your talent, skills or experience. Does it mean that only egregiously stupid and inexperienced freelancers with laughably bad pitches get this treatment? If only. What if every single assigning editor had to freelance for a minimum of six months with no backup income? It is an interesting challenge to ensure that every single month -- trying to avoid credit card mayhem or line of credit interest fees -- every single payment is made on time and/or there is a non-stop line of checks arriving in a timely fashion. It can seem absurd to work like a dog to meet all deadlines, turn in terrific copy -- and still wait weeks or months for an answer or payment from editors. Yes, you're busy. That's pretty well understood. But try to imagine what it would feel like to know you have terrific skills and ideas, to work your butt off and produce even award-winning work, but your co-workers utterly ignore you. Might that affect your morale or confidence? Might you....eventually...feel annoyed? Freelancers, however invisible, are in some fashion your co-workers. Vendor/seller is factually accurate but it overlooks more subtle inter-reliance. I'm not defending the decision made by the OP. But if you can't ever make contact -- and close the deal or (calmly and professionally) cut your losses and move on -- it can be frustrating. No one anywhere wants to waste their time or energy, not overloaded editors or hardworking freelancers whose monthly bills arrive with the same frequency as staffers. |
| HyancinthGirl | Posted – 3/28/2008 1:37:28 PM | show profile I think that Jerose made a good point about naming the editor and publication. It's tacky, unprofessional, and opens the poster up to a defamation suit if it really got to that extreme. Editors: be more respectful of freelancers' time, response no matter what, AND don't forget to pay them on time Freelancers: two or three emails for a pitch with a final, if-I-don't-hear-from-you-by email that announces your intentions to sell elsewhere AND do a bit more research on the mag you are pitching Now that we all understand everyone's position, is there really any need to perpetuate this post? |
| reporterwriter | Posted – 3/28/2008 1:40:57 PM | show profile Tsk, tsk, Jerose. These people don't want form letters; they want personalized rejections, complete with reasons that they can argue with you about before telling their writer friends how harsh you are! |
| reporterwriter | Posted – 3/28/2008 1:43:52 PM | show profile Hyacinth -- Sure, if you're MB's policewoman in charge of shutting down threads. Are you? |
| Jerose | Posted – 3/28/2008 1:55:16 PM | show profile BBelinda I was trying to compromise. I was told it only takes 30 seconds to respond, so a form letter is all I could come up with in 30 seconds. But all kidding aside, I'll try like the other poster said to be more in tune with the needs of freelancers from now on, especially since I can't afford to hire them. But no flaming on this board after the letter. I'm sickened by those who mock the professionalism of a major editor while not only naming him on a media board but also lecturing him on his manners. The best place to vent is really to your friends/spouse.....offline. |
| WordyBird | Posted – 3/28/2008 1:58:54 PM | show profile I had a simple, three-line e-mail for rejections. "Thank you for submitting your story idea. I regret that it does not serve our needs at this time. Please feel free to pitch it elsewhere, but do keep us in mind for fresh ideas that may come to you in the future." This way, you've been polite, said no, and yet have left the door open for another idea that might be more suitable. Just because the idea the writer is currently pitching doesn't fit, that doesn't mean he or she won't come up with something brilliant later. And really, it takes all of three seconds to cut and paste it into a response field and send it off with your sig. Goodwill is a good thing, and as others have said, today's freelancers might be tomorrow's bosses. Plus, the industry is notoriously small. You never know when you're going to run into freelancers at a networking event. Same thing goes for potential employers who don't bother to let a candidate know he or she did not get the job. I once interviewed somewhere--spent a day traveling there and back and three hours in the office--and never heard anything from the person who interviewed me. I sent my thank you notes (on nice card stock) and followed up, of course, and did not receive any response. Six months later, someone from that office sent me an e-mail. "Your resume has been given to me. We have some freelance projects that we need help on and I was wondering if you're available." The best part is that this person was one of those with whom I interviewed. My response was, "I wonder if we've met before. I came in for an interview with [another person] back in May and your name sounds familiar. At any rate, I have accepted a full time job and am not able to assist you at this time." I also included some can't miss details, like the city I traveled from, so the person would be appropriately mortified. And yet, should there be a turnover on that staff, I can always come back to them later, because no one was rude to anyone. |
| Jerose | Posted – 3/28/2008 2:02:02 PM | show profile CaitlinKelly I'm so confused by your post. Are you saying pubs should respond or shouldn't respond? It seems that a "no" response is just as deadly to a shortfused freelancer as is no response. You know what, who cares. I took a personal day, so I'm going to leave all media issues at work. Good luck to everyone for a resolution on this thread. |
| JackieRo | Posted – 3/28/2008 2:24:45 PM | show profile I saw that this link was so long so I took a look. I can add only one thing. When I interned at a very niche trade magazine in college, I was responsible for responding to outside writers' requests. The magazine was extremely specific to an industry that most people outside the circle did not understand. It was like sending a story pitch to a magazine about knitting when my magazine only focused on quilting, which was also creative but used different materials. When I got the requests I would work with the writer to explain what the industry was and give them resource information so they understood better. Some liked what I did and others wouldn't listen and would still try to send us the same wrong industry pitch over and over again. I told my editor about the requests and she told me to ignore them because I had done all I could and my advice was ignored. One bad pitch person called my editor directly and tried to have me fired for not responding back to his pitch when I said no to the original pitch. The frustration is real between those who pitch and those who read it. |
| onmyown | Posted – 3/28/2008 2:28:02 PM | show profile I WAS a freelancer Caitlin, I always appreciate your posts. But in this one, you suggest all editors freelancer for six months. Well, I freelancers for a couple years before joining an edit staff. This is back in the olden days, before everyone had PCs and way before email. I researched topics, wrote one-page queries with a story angle, including a bit of my background, added paper clips, self-addressed stamped envelopes, and then carried it all to the post office to mail it. Today's freelancers who dash off an unsolicited, misguided query by email to a publication that isn't even looking for new freelancers are owed little considation, IMO. Yet, as I said in previous posts, any writer to actually makes an effort to craft a query that would fit into my magazine--and who spells my name right--will get a response, even if it's a "No, thanks." |
| caitlinkelly | Posted – 3/28/2008 6:01:21 PM | show profile Jerose, my larger point is that writers and editors are, potentially, on the same team -- we cannot exist without markets to sell to and most publications buying freelance work do need to find some effective/efficient way to communicate with their would-be vendors. Writers who suck are the ones editors warn each other about -- just as writers warn one another (off this board) about editors who simply cannot seem to answer their email, snail mail or phone. It's not my place to tell you what to do, but as someone who works with and for writers, I think clear, candid, quick communication -- whenever possible -- is the easiest way to make life calmer for all of us. If that means a standard rejection email (and I've gotten them) of "Thanks, but this won't work for us" -- well, that's better than nothing. I hear the point about thoughtless pitches dashed off by email. The endless wearying fact is that some writers will do the worst possible (pissing off editors with crappy practices) -- and others will behave professionally yet still get tarred with the same brush (i.e. get ignored, blown off, etc.) even when referred to an editor by someone they know and like. If a writer decides to argue the point beyond reason as to why their pitch IS good -- well, there's always the delete key. |
| seeattleme | Posted – 3/28/2008 7:32:01 PM | show profile Any editor who tries to convine any one out there that he /she does not need freelance pitches is bullshitting or running a crappy magazine (Sports Illustrated? Money Magazine?) You editors need our pitches for two reasons 1. To know what's going on out there in the real world, outside of your little bubble of mediocre media centricity and your AMSE butt-kissing elite, outside of NYC, outside of the Troi state area, even. 2. You need these ideas so you can read them, ask for a few more details, then reassign them to your staff writers and your pals from college and the old days back as junior editors and fact checkers at Esquire, EW, Forbes, Mademoiselle, and Glamour. |
| caitlinkelly | Posted – 3/29/2008 3:25:22 PM | show profile Oy vey. Can you possibly for once lose the bitterness????? If you are incapable of even imagining cooperation, it ain't gonna happen. From the editors (oh, those DUMB, lazy freelancers) to the writers (those lazy, rude editors, blablabla.) Yes, NYC consumer magazine editors can be clubby and clannish to an enervating degree. And so...? But starting out every time with the unshakeable conviction you are only going to get screwed can be a self-fulfilling prophecy. For every &%%$#@#@ editor there's another who's smart and decent -- just as there are wise, helpful, reliable pro's out there among all those can'-t-get-your-name-right "writers". |
| PluckyPane | Posted – 3/29/2008 4:49:21 PM | show profile hey qunester, the pub i ran last didn't use unsolicited freelancers at all. we used paid experts who didn't have a background in writing at all. you know those experts who need to publish so they can be tenure, etc. gosh i wonder how we ever made it. |
| mumbo jumbo | Posted – 3/29/2008 5:39:22 PM | show profile The pub I work for uses few freelancers, and I get plenty of queries, most totally inappropriate, which they'd know if they'd bothered to research the publication. This is why I don't feel obliged to spend any time dealing with them. The likelihood that I'd need them is remote, and if I did, there are other, better writers that I'd use. Someone commented that an editor complained about having 100 emails. That was me, and I never come to this board during work hours, only from my home computer. So I'm not taking time away from responding to my email to post here. But I do wonder why some of you became freelance writers if you hate the people, the industry, and everything else that goes with it. There are other jobs, you know. I've been in this field for over 25 years, some of them spent freelancing. I prefer the security of a staff job, so I found one after many months of trying. I feel as though I've made many friends and excellent contacts over the years, mostly by not burning bridges or gossiping on online bulletin boards, naming names, etc. I've used many of the same freelancers in different jobs that I've had, and some of them were very helpful to me when I was job hunting. As many here have said, what goes around comes around. |
| barrio99 | Posted – 3/29/2008 6:50:07 PM | show profile Good lord, Quenster, if you could possibly see how bitter, bitter bitter you seem, I don't think you'd keep posting like that. It comes off as insecure and sad, not at all experienced or bold or knowing, or whatever it is you are going for. I don't know you, I don't post much, but after reading the boards more than usual this month I thought I'd offer a perspective. The chip on your shoulder can't be helping you in your professional life, and it oozes out of your posts, as I am betting it might in your life as well, helping to fulfill the expectation you appear to have about being shafted, ignored, overlooked by top editors/publications. |
| caitlinkelly | Posted – 3/30/2008 1:27:06 PM | show profile Maybe we can all admit that pitching is a crapshoot....You can read every issue of your targeted publication cover to cover for 12 months -- and still never get a pitch answered or query discussed or an assignment...or the budget just got cut...or the editor has their "stable" already or they won't risk trying someone new...All the goodwill and experience and talent in the world from some writers is not enough for some editors or publications, and it's annoying and it is what it is. I suspect (?) the most successful freelancers -- both financially and psychologically (ie. not hitting walls constantly) find a few editors and pub's where there's mutual respect, acceptable fees/conditions -- and rely on as much repeat business as you can get. It is much easier and less time-consuming to work with a handful of editors you know like and trust (hmmm, sounds like a "stable" to me...I hate that word. What are we, ponies?) than to keep flinging yourself and your clips and your resume at people who ignore it or shrug. Finding those editors isn't so easy and those opportunities wax and wane. But assuming you will get **screwed** is ignorant. Yes, it will happen. It does happen. MOVE ON. The bitter ones can marinate in their rage -- and let the rest of us do the work for them. |
| TheSecondShift | Posted – 3/30/2008 4:59:51 PM | show profile It is a crapshoot and one that I accept. But like any job, full time or otherwise, sometimes you burn out. Doesn't mean you'd give it up entirely, it just seems this process could be so much easier than it is. Inconsiderate editors are a problem. Inconsiderate writers are a problem. I just try to be the best writer I can be. A good editor strives for something similar, IMO, and I've been exposed to many who fit the bill. But editors who state they don't have a need, budget, or whatever for freelancers--just how are we on the outside supposed to know that? Osmosis? The initial pitch is important whether you like it or not. I have steady clients now that weren't in the past because of my first or subsequent queries. You don't become engaged without dating first. And why don't freelancers just take a staff job if they don't like The Way It Is? There are a host of reasons. For me, the reason is because I have children and feel the need to both contribute to the household's finances and be available for my children without the stress of a 9-5. Freelancing is a semi happy medium until they leave the nest. Maybe we can all admit that pitching is a crapshoot....You can read every issue of your targeted publication cover to cover for 12 months -- and still never get a pitch answered or query discussed or an assignment...or the budget just got cut...or the editor has their "stable" already or they won't risk trying someone new...All the goodwill and experience and talent in the world from some writers is not enough for some editors or publications, and it's annoying and it is what it is. |
| caitlinkelly | Posted – 3/30/2008 7:44:50 PM | show profile And...imagine this...there are freelancers who might well prefer a FT journalism job. Not many choices these days. It's disingenuous in the extreme to say "Go get a job" when there are few out there and hundreds of qualified people competing for each one. |
