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Topic: New Yorker, Atlantic, Harpers
| Author | Message |
| Team America | Posted – 3/15/2008 3:53:07 PM | show profile I'm trying to understand how to pitch the big 3. Yes, I can look at Writer's Market, etc. Yes, I've had subscriptions to the NYer and Harp. Still, I'll admit it I'm a little intimidated... or maybe it's just the feeling that every MFA in the universe is cluttering their mailboxes daily... It's not like I don't have an A list of pubs under my belt, because I do... So, here's the story (please feel free to sob along or yawn as I bet it's all too familiar to MB readers). There I was pitching and revising a pitch for Outside Magazine with their top editorial honcho... who to my chagrin, I have to admit is a decent guy... However, when I spend THAT much time, interview THAT many people, line up THAT many situations and sculpt 1500 words of strategic and defensible pitch... I do not want to hear, "How would you feel if it ended up in the front of the book?" Sorry, this is an important story and although I do not think of myself as a NYer, At, Harp person, I don't know where else this should go... Looking for thoughts on a comparative taxonomy of these behemoths, what it's like to pitch them and to whom pitches should be directed. Sorry, if this seems lame or appears to not follow the rules, but following the rules doesn't seem to work for anyone I know. All responses, good or ill appreciated. |
| womaninbooks | Posted – 3/15/2008 5:38:52 PM | show profile Why not VQR or national geographic traveler instead? |
| Team America | Posted – 3/15/2008 5:47:16 PM | show profile thank you womaninbooks. There are very specific reasons it can't be in a Natgeo pub... but basically it is not a travel story. As for VQR... interesting idea... |
| seeattleme | Posted – 3/16/2008 12:36:38 AM | show profile MFA--are you talking fiction or essay? JUst write it and send it in. And that may be the way to go with the big three. Just write it and send it in, and hope it'll get read and passed along. other pubs to try: Regionals, depending where this story is set--there are good ones who run long features. also some of the fashion magazines are running longer features. and the quarterlies sometimes run essays and non fiction. |
| Team America | Posted – 3/16/2008 12:40:00 PM | show profile Thank you qunester. The story has a national focus and is nonfiction investigative journalism. While just sending it is always an option, it seems like a long slow way to go with something that unfortunately had to wait its turn at Outside... So, I'm not very excited about that option... but thank you for your thoughts. |
| seeattleme | Posted – 3/16/2008 4:51:59 PM | show profile The only way they are going to assign you a big story--given you are an "unknown" to them--is if you demonstrate some inner angle, some access you have that no one else does, some info you and only you can get at. And even then they may ask you to do it on spec. If you refuse, they'll assign it to another writer. That's just the way it is. |
| caitlinkelly | Posted – 3/16/2008 8:46:30 PM | show profile The New Yorker is known to ask for/assign stories and kill a high number of them from "unknown" (to them) writers. Happened to me. No one with decent clips and a great idea wants to shoehorn in into an FOB...Are there no other mag's worth trying who won't be less inaccessible? The sort of story you describe is rarely an easy one to sell, no matter what your credentials. |
| Marie | Posted – 3/16/2008 9:28:36 PM | show profile You could always do the FOB for Outside and then craft it into a longer narrative for another market that can run it. |
| dribbledrive1 | Posted – 3/16/2008 9:59:05 PM | show profile That's the way it's going to be no matter what. I had a friend -- top clips, big magazines -- who submitted a story idea to Harpers via his agent who knew the editor well. Took them forever to respond. Turned it down. My personal experience with these places is unless you have an existing personal connection with an editor there, there isn't any super-secret approach that will get you a better chance. You'll do just as well doing an Internet search, finding a lowly editor's name and email address, and sending the pitch. Ultimately, what you'll find is the "Big Three" aren't that much different than anyone else. --While just sending it is always an option, it seems like a long slow way to go with something that unfortunately had to wait its turn at Outside... So, I'm not very excited about that option...-- |
| snappiness | Posted – 3/16/2008 10:24:23 PM | show profile One part of your post jumped out at me, about doing so much advance work for the *pitch.* It's maddening, lately I've also started to do a lot more interviews just for the darned pitch. Maybe I'm lazy, but it seems to me I shouldn't have to do interviews until I get the assignment. It drives me crazy when I do all the advance work and then don't get the assignment. What a waste of time! |
| seeattleme | Posted – 3/16/2008 11:39:49 PM | show profile Caitlin, asking for clips and getting an assignment with these big three are two different animals. Did you get an assignment? (Cause I never saw it if you did.) I was asked for clips from New Yorker too. Those clips--coming from teen magazines at the time, didn't get me shit. It's all about connections. If you don't have those connections, do it on spec, that's your only ticket. Sorry, but true. |
| caitlinkelly | Posted – 3/17/2008 8:43:03 AM | show profile As I said, I got an assignment, did the piece and it was killed. Which I also explained, at the New Yorker, is quite common for writers "new" to them. And having a connection may get your work read or get you an assignment but it does not guarantee the piece is going to be used. |
| seeattleme | Posted – 3/17/2008 3:22:02 PM | show profile The odds are much better than if you are a writer with zero connections. Nothing is 100 per cent guaranteed. Not even death and taxes these days. |
| Team America | Posted – 3/17/2008 5:18:14 PM | show profile Thank you for your responses. Good all. Where to start... Ummm... How'bout content first. I actually do have unique access particularly to some of the more secretive parties involved. So, I think it would be difficult for them to just hand it off to someone else. Not too worried about that. On the other hand the principal protagonists will probably be less forthcoming if it ends up being a publication they are less familiar with. Moving on to my personal feelings about doing a lot of work and getting FOBd... I think some work and some interviews were necessary to truly understand the situation and properly write this pitch. I did 3 meaningful interviews, read a couple of books and did a full-on digestion of previous literature courtesy of Lex/Nex. That part doesn't bother me that much... it's what I needed to do to feel confident about the subject matter. What bothered me was having a go-round with a senior editor inwhich he requested I answer specific questions. It took a long time to pull that together and sculpt it into a well written pitch. When the pitch ends up 1500 words of deeper material than any resulting FOB piece would be (putting aside the fact that it is just not FOB material), then I'm frustrated. When you add that I've been through similar experiences on multiple submissions to this particular editor (although none this involved), that's when I toss things around the room. Maybe this is really a fool me once shame on you, fool me twice... Anyway, appreciate your thoughts. If people have more insights, I'm still interested. |
| Metro Writer | Posted – 3/17/2008 5:25:57 PM | show profile Dribbledrive and Caitlin are right. Still, it doesn't hurt to have a connection. Don't have one? Find places where they speak (press clubs, writers' conferences, etc.) and introduce yourself to them. You would be surprised that some are actually looking for talented writers. I know for a fact that The New York Times regional section needs freelancers. |
| Team America | Posted – 3/17/2008 6:03:42 PM | show profile Submission Guidelines for The New Yorker This is getting funnier. I finally sucked it up and went looking for nonfiction submission guidelines for The New Yorker. This is what it says: "We regret that, due to volume, we cannot consider unsolicited nonfiction other than submissions to The Talk of the Town, and we will not be able to respond to queries or return manuscripts if sent." Apparently, you can't even send something over the transom. |
| snappiness | Posted – 3/18/2008 10:01:48 AM | show profile This is so funny, I just faxed a pitch over to the New Yorker yesterday. But I'm fully expecting rejection, just like before. For me, pitching the New Yorker is more about the process. It sharpens my skills, forces me to do my best pitch work, which then carries over to my other pitches. And it makes me feel good, to assume I have the chops to pitch the New Yorker. I did talk to someone in Remnick's office to check the fax number and she didn't tell me not to send it in, so maybe they are still taking pitches. |
| Team America | Posted – 3/18/2008 11:46:06 AM | show profile I agree with your thinking Snapi... Sometimes rejection just fuels success somewhere else... As in Go Gettim' Tiger... One thing though... did you notice and I may be qibbling or lost in the nomenclature here... but that's a "submission" guideline... I've always assumed submission means a finished manuscript... does this actually mean that they expect you to only send finished work? Which means that if you're submitting a pitch you're double bad? Can't be. I must be getting giddy with the sillyness. Glad Snapi has the guts to pitch'em. |
| Village Gal | Posted – 3/18/2008 1:06:26 PM | show profile well there is a big difference between writing for regional sections of the NY Times and writing for New Yorker. I know many people, myself included, who have written for the Times but I honestly don't know anyone who has gotten into the New Yorker. And I know a lot of writers. Susan Morrison, an editor at the New Yorker, recently spoke on one of Sue Shapiro's panels. Anyone hear her? I couldn't go that night. |
| dribbledrive1 | Posted – 3/18/2008 2:22:28 PM | show profile A magazine's guidelines are irrelevant. Follow guidelines that are beneficial to you; ignore those that aren't. If you send an email to a specific editor, and he likes it and reads it, he won't care what the "official" submission guidelines say. I don't even look at submission guidelines because I figure they could have been written years ago by people who aren't even at the magazine anymore. I've had great success sending kinds of material that magazines officially wouldn't consider. You don't need a magazine's permission to try to sell to them. And you don't need to follow a magazine's suggestions on how to sell to them. Those suggestions are usually designed to shield the editors from amateurs and incompetents. not to increase your chances of making a sale or increasing your income. Do whatever you want, and whatever you think will give you the best chance of getting what you want. --This is getting funnier. I finally sucked it up and went looking for nonfiction submission guidelines for The New Yorker. This is what it says: "We regret that, due to volume, we cannot consider unsolicited nonfiction other than submissions to The Talk of the Town, and we will not be able to respond to queries or return manuscripts if sent." Apparently, you can't even send something over the transom. -- |
| Team America | Posted – 3/18/2008 7:56:34 PM | show profile So, I guess that?s the answer to the original question: How do you penetrate the big 3 magazines? A: Any way you can. Only a rube follows the rules. |
| dribbledrive1 | Posted – 3/18/2008 8:44:17 PM | show profile More accurately, I'd say there are no rules. There are simply best practices, which may or may not be to your advantage to follow depending on the specific situation. --A: Any way you can. Only a rube follows the rules.-- |
| caitlinkelly | Posted – 3/18/2008 11:04:50 PM | show profile The rules get bent and broken every day -- but playing by them, to start with, can't hurt. For every editor happy to have you bend or break them, you'll piss another off. I think do what feels right -- and if you never get the results you seek, maybe it's not so right after all. |
| snappiness | Posted – 3/18/2008 11:05:19 PM | show profile I do have a friend who writes for the New Yorker. But she won a Pulitzer first. ;) |
| seeattleme | Posted – 3/18/2008 11:30:43 PM | show profile 1. Write the story first and send it in. At the very least write the lede. 2. Or write a letter and in the first line in your pitch describe the special access you have. Or bold that line in the letter. 3. Write a related or similar story for a lesser-known publication, like a newspaper or a newspaper Sunday magazine, or a regional. Such as a profile of someone involved. Send that clip with your "special access" letter and wait it out about six months. 4. Don't take the advice of others so seriously. There is no "formula" no "one way". There are lucky breaks, but theya re rare, and that's why they are called "lucky breaks". For the most part you have to get several New-Yorker like clips (or Atlantic or Harpers) before you get a single clip from these places. It also helps to be working on a book on the topic, or have an agent submit your story to these big three. Although one story submittted by an agent at a magazine I worked for, not one of the big three but a good one--turned it down and it was bought and run by The New Yorker. The editor who turned it down said it wasn't a magazine story, it was a book. The New Yorker won an ASME for it. So you never know. |
